Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on January 10, 2017, 04:25:57 PM
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Can I get some recommendations on good car ramps?
I've decided that since it's so easy to change the oil on my new F-150 that it would be embarrassing for me not to. :laugh:
While I can get underneath with just enough room, I thought it would be nice to get an extra six or so inches of clearance to get some elbow room. Plus maybe with a set of ramps I'll be more inclined to change the oil on my 4Runner, which requires a lot more time underneath to remove skid plates and such.
Anyway, I did a quick Amazon search, and maybe I was using the wrong terms, but there wasn't a big selection. I figured there would be pages, but there was maybe two pages, and some of them seemed geared towards low slung sports cars. I want something that will hold up a truck. I saw some plastic ones that got four star reviews into the thousands, but when I read the bad reviews, they involved the ramps collapsing when a car drove on them. More than one review like that makes me leery. I plan on sticking jack stands underneath for backup, but you still have to slide underneath to place them. :)
On the one hand I don't want to cheap out, but on the other hand I don't want $200 ramps if they are not necessary, otherwise it's too much of a recovery cost and I might as well work with the tight squeeze under the truck and keep taking the 4Runner to the dealer.
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You'll be crawling underneath - how much is your life worth?
Some folks have recommended ramps from Harbor Freight, but I've read some sage advice that one ought not trust Harbor Freight stuff on anything that will endanger your life if it fails.
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You'll be crawling underneath - how much is your life worth?
A lot more than I'd ever spend on car ramps.
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You'll be crawling underneath - how much is your life worth?
Hence the "I don't want to cheap out". I just don't want to pay more because something looks pretty. I'll pay for safety.
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When I was looking at car ramps the Rhino Ramps seemed like the one to buy based on reviews of owners. They aren't the cheapest nor are they the most expensive.
bob
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Floor jack and couple jack stands.
Ramps scare the hell out of me.
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Floor jack and couple jack stands.
Ramps scare the hell out of me.
I've never used ramps. I would have thought the opposite - good ramp safer than jack stands. I have a killer Costco floor jack and good jack stands (welded them myself out of pig iron!). :)
Maybe I don't need anything more than I have.
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I've never used ramps. I would have thought the opposite - good ramp safer than jack stands. I have a killer Costco floor jack and good jack stands (welded them myself out of pig iron!). :)
Maybe I don't need anything more than I have.
Seen folks drive off them and damage their undercarriage. I have seen a ramp after it collapsed, it happened when no one was under the vehicle.
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Floor jack and couple jack stands.
Ramps scare the hell out of me.
I love my ramps, use them all the time.... for working on the riding lawn mower.
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Seen folks drive off them and damage their undercarriage. I have seen a ramp after it collapsed, it happened when no one was under the vehicle.
I had the opposite -- I had a Cherokee up on jack stands. My driveway isn't asphalt, it's gravel. In summer, when it's dry, it always seemed firm and solid. I jacked the rear axle up, put the stands under it, and left it for several hours. I came back to find the left rear brake drum (with the axle and vehicle still attached) sitting in the dirt. The jack stand didn't fail -- the ground supporting it failed.
I use steel ramps. I don't trust plastic. That said, a good friend is a professional VW tech (shop foreman), and he uses plastic.
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The paranoid use redundant methods: jack stands plus wood blocks or similar as backup.
I have plastic ramps I bought at O'Reilly whenever I needed them. Pay attention to the weight ratings and you will be fine. I actually trust the cheap plastic ones more than some of the cheap metal ones I have seen. Its hard to evaluate metallurgy and weld quality; they could be made out of random metal melted down with whatever they threw in the pot in China and welded together with bad welds;how would you know?
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I had the opposite -- I had a Cherokee up on jack stands. My driveway isn't asphalt, it's gravel. In summer, when it's dry, it always seemed firm and solid. I jacked the rear axle up, put the stands under it, and left it for several hours. I came back to find the left rear brake drum (with the axle and vehicle still attached) sitting in the dirt. The jack stand didn't fail -- the ground supporting it failed.
I use steel ramps. I don't trust plastic. That said, a good friend is a professional VW tech (shop foreman), and he uses plastic.
I've had jacks drop sink in the mud, especially on heavier stuff like farm tractors.
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I saw a set someone made from a 12x12 timber. They cut a long angle up to a flat spot. Those will never flatted out.
Kind of like this but solid log. These would be easy to make as well.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi844.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab2%2Fpeter-ss%2FWooden%2520Ramps%2FP1010889.jpg&hash=9568d0a466d3a92801079bbde8e518bd6c93161a)
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I had ramps made from single pieces of pine log left over from a log cabin. The grain naturally ran lengthwise. When I drove the car up onto it one day, there was a piece of gravel right under it, and the ramp split lengthwise. So yeah... redundant methods are in order when crawling under large hunks of steel.
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Seen folks drive off them and damage their undercarriage. I have seen a ramp after it collapsed, it happened when no one was under the vehicle.
What kind of ramp? Not one of the plastic ones, I take it?
Rhinoramps seems like a good type. They stack up to a lower profile than mine do.
In order for the plastic ones to fail, you're looking at a lot of ribs having to go.
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What kind of ramp? Not one of the plastic ones, I take it?
Rhinoramps seems like a good type. They stack up to a lower profile than mine do.
In order for the plastic ones to fail, you're looking at a lot of ribs having to go.
Metal ones, it was back when I was in high school. I can't remember if it was a friend or his father that it flattened on.
Every discount store had those old sheet metal riveted ones for sale back then.
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I drive up the ramps then set floor jack for backup
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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The Rhinoramps are the ones that have gotten bad reviews...this was covered in a thread on another forum I am a member of recently. I've heard that the earlier ones were good and that the newer ones are the ones that have issues.
pine log
Pine is not an acceptable cribbing material. We strictly use oak and it gets tossed when the blocking gets damaged.
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Pine is not an acceptable cribbing material. We strictly use oak and it gets tossed when the blocking gets damaged.
At the risk of sound like KD5 Jr... :laugh:
If a guy only wanted a few inches of lift, would something like a good quality three foot long 2x12 with a two foot long 2x12 screwed and/or glued on top of it not be pretty darn sturdy (given it was on a flat concrete surface)?
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... I have a killer Costco floor jack ...Maybe I don't need anything more than I have.
(phrasing?)
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I don't use ramps. Nothing against them, but I've found jackstands more versatile. Maybe I'll get ramps when I have more storage room to spare.
I agree on redundancy. I usually re-position my jack and leave it (touching, not taking any weight)... just in case.
I'm not sure how I feel about plastic ramps. *I* wouldn't get under them. I'd be concerned about how age impacts their strength. This is not a problem with metal that hasn't obviously corroded.
I'd also agree with the suggestion to watch your weight specs. Being made of stamped sheet, it's hard to say how much extra capacity is designed in before yield. I'd consider buying the next size bigger then intended use.
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This makes me think that a business model I've thought of that would be nice to try, just need $$$$$.
Open up a DIY auto repair shop, like the ones you see on a military base. Have 4-5 bays, a couple with lifts, and then rent them out for a few bucks an hour.
Have a bunch of common tools and then a few of the more special ones that someone might need.
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^^^I would think that the liability insurance for this would be extraordinarily expensive.
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^^^I would think that the liability insurance for this would be extraordinarily expensive.
That is the major drawback I see. I have thought about inquiring but without any $$$$ to start no reason to even try at this time.
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^^^I would think that the liability insurance for this would be extraordinarily expensive.
Those businesses have existed in the past.
Chris
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This makes me think that a business model I've thought of that would be nice to try, just need $$$$$.
Open up a DIY auto repair shop, like the ones you see on a military base. Have 4-5 bays, a couple with lifts, and then rent them out for a few bucks an hour.
Have a bunch of common tools and then a few of the more special ones that someone might need.
I've run numbers on this. The killer for me, assuming zoning works and there is no debt service on the real estate, is the fact that you need to pay someone to be there all hours (because a working guy can only get to a garage after the day job, or night shift, or on weekends) and the inevitability of it morphing into an auto salvage yard full of discarded projects.
The insurance guy I talked to suggested that from an underwriting perspective it wasn't much different than renting a wood chipper or mini backhoe or banquet hall or a dune buggy. /ETA/ I ASSUME /ETA/ All standard waivers would be required.
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I have owned stamped steel ramps and the plastic Rhino ramps. I prefer the latter.
Like others, I supplement the ramps with jack stands. Just in case. Heck, any time I get under the truck I have one or more backup.
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I have owned stamped steel ramps and the plastic Rhino ramps. I prefer the latter.
Like others, I supplement the ramps with jack stands. Just in case. Heck, any time I get under the truck I have one or more backup.
Back on topic.
I'll only go under a ramped car if there is a solid foundation under the ramp, such as an 8x8 timber, chunk of concrete, jackstands, etc.
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All standard waivers would be required.
The sticky wicket is whether the statutory or case law of a given state recognizes the validity of such waivers. In many states, liability waivers are not worth the paper they are printed on in terms of preventing a claim from being filed against you. Much of the time, such waivers are invalid on grounds of being against public policy to shield someone from tortious conduct or unequal bargaining power. But then again, some waivers are valid in some states, so you cannot dismiss the concept out of hand.
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The sticky wicket is whether the statutory or case law of a given state recognizes the validity of such waivers. In many states, liability waivers are not worth the paper they are printed on in terms of preventing a claim from being filed against you. Much of the time, such waivers are invalid on grounds of being against public policy to shield someone from tortious conduct or unequal bargaining power. But then again, some waivers are valid in some states, so you cannot dismiss the concept out of hand.
You wouldn't be able to waive damages caused by your facility or tools failing, I think.
What you're trying to do is protect yourself when Joe Blow comes along and manages to hurt himself through the improper use of your facility, or even the tools and such he brought himself.
Let's say you have a car lift, and Joe's under it when the hydraulic line goes and it drops on him. You're probably liable.
If he pokes the lower button with a broom handle and drops his car on his foot, you shouldn't be. Especially if you have a policy of "vehicles are lifted and lowered by shop staff, not clients" and he had to remove the safety pin for it to go down at all.
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I used to do the oil changes on my truck. Still do some maintenance, (just changed out the water pump, thermostat, idler & tensioner pulleys and belt on the truck), but after running the numbers I don't do oil changes. It costs about $10 more to have a shop do it than if I do, and I don't have to worry about cleanup and used oil disposal.
As for ramps, I haven't used them for cars/trucks in decades. Judging exactly when to stop and making sure one or both of the ramps don't slide while trying to drive up on them are more stressful than jacking it up and using jack stands with the jack as a backup. I did build a set out of 2x4's & 2x12's for the riding mowers - including stops at the end of the flat part and a hole in the ramp to pin them to the ground. Can't drive off the end and they don't slide.
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Can I get some recommendations on good car ramps?
You're doing it wrong; instead of raising the car, you should be looking at ways to lower the floor under the oil pan. There's a reason all the oil change places do it that way.
If you insist on picking up heavy stuff, my preferred method involves a forklift and whatever size chunk of structural steel will prop the forks at the right height just in case of catastrophic hydraulic failure. Forklifts rarely fall over when you're only lifting <36" and then bracing under the forks.
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I used to do the oil changes on my truck. Still do some maintenance, (just changed out the water pump, thermostat, idler & tensioner pulleys and belt on the truck), but after running the numbers I don't do oil changes. It costs about $10 more to have a shop do it than if I do, and I don't have to worry about cleanup and used oil disposal.
As for ramps, I haven't used them for cars/trucks in decades. Judging exactly when to stop and making sure one or both of the ramps don't slide while trying to drive up on them are more stressful than jacking it up and using jack stands with the jack as a backup. I did build a set out of 2x4's & 2x12's for the riding mowers - including stops at the end of the flat part and a hole in the ramp to pin them to the ground. Can't drive off the end and they don't slide.
99% of the reason I stopped doing my own oil changes.
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99% of the reason I stopped doing my own oil changes.
Not a problem if you have a fire pit in the back yard. Burns warm....
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This makes me think that a business model I've thought of that would be nice to try, just need $$$$$.
Open up a DIY auto repair shop, like the ones you see on a military base. Have 4-5 bays, a couple with lifts, and then rent them out for a few bucks an hour.
Have a bunch of common tools and then a few of the more special ones that someone might need.
I heard an interview with a guy on the radio on a while back. Supposedly, there was a sort of machine shop somewhere in the North Houston suburbs that was similar to what you are talking about. You could buy a membership to use the equipment and/or get training. They talked about training for teenagers and adults. I thought it was interesting at the time. I don't recall too many details beyond that.
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Not a problem if you have a fire pit in the back yard. Burns warm....
Lots of waste oil forge burner plans out there. Basically, it amounts to dripping the oil into the airflow from the blower, and usually using propane for a preheat so you avoid the hassle of getting it lit and having it smoke for a bit until the heat picks up enough for clean combustion. Never got around to building one, but at least a couple of the guys who did said that once word got out people would even bring them empty 55 gallon drums as a bribe to have a place to ditch their used oil for free. Forced air burning is an EPA approved disposal method, so you should even be OK if someone decides to tattle.
Only thing I might be worried about is people like me that tend to have one waste bucket for all the car fluids, though I'd think a pint of ATF or even a quart of solvent in a 5-10 gallon gravity feed tank shouldn't amount to a problem once you're burning at forge welding temps anyway.
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The self service shop idea is a non starter not just due to insurance/liability but the ahole quotient of users. You'll have tool control issues, them showing up and leaving *expletive deleted*it, vehicles that "didn't get done" hanging around, people starting jobs outside their skill level and then expecting someone else to finish them, etc.
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The self service shop idea is a non starter not just due to insurance/liability but the *expletive deleted*hole quotient of users. You'll have tool control issues, them showing up and leaving *expletive deleted*it, vehicles that "didn't get done" hanging around, people starting jobs outside their skill level and then expecting someone else to finish them, etc.
Actually you can limit a lot of the ahole quotient by first like a range, you have levels of membership. You charge by the hour for the bay and if you have a credit card on file and signed releases then you get some of the money. Unfinished projects left after x amount of days without arrangements gets sold off at auction.
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Not a problem if you have a fire pit in the back yard. Burns warm....
I have no problem getting rid of waste oil, most of the shops up here have waste oil furance so they take all the used oil they can get. I change my oil oil in my truck, motorcycles and riding lawn mower and take jugs to them when full. They change my work car's oil.
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On the liability waiver thing, the waivers are almost universally used, and then almost universally ignored by attorneys when filing liability lawsuits. It is almost universally accepted law that a liability waiver will only protect an owner/operator in the event that a licensee (person using the property with permission) is injured due to the normal use of the property or their own negligence. Think in terms of paintball facilities. If a player is running across an open, flat field and trips, the injuries are related to normal use, and the waiver should help. Or, if the player takes off his protective mask during the course of a game and gets injured, it's his own fault.
HOWEVER (all caps to get attention), every personal injury lawyer out and about knows that you always allege that the owner/operator was negligent in the operation of the business in some manner(s) so that they can jump right past that waiver and get beyond that initial motion to dismiss that cites to the waiver. Is the waiver useless? No and yes. Not useless as it will help to get rid of some claims, but it won't stop you from getting sued.
So, on the rent-a-garage scenario, a waiver will help get rid of the lawsuits from the guy who sues because he smashed a finger while trying to break loose a rusted bolt using his own tools or misusing the shops tools. But it won't save you from everything.
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Oh I know that waivers are only worth a few pennies more than the paper they are written on.
Just know that I'll never have the money to actually do this and if I were to do it, it would be done right.
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A) Harbor Freight is not your friend when it comes to jacks, jackstands, or car ramps, or anything else used to hold something heavy enough to seriously injure or kill you.
B) The Craftsman, Husky, and Kobalt brands seem to be an acceptable compromise of price and quality.
C) Summit and Jegs both sell car stuff made for car people. Check them out. They carry good stuff and the price is right.
Brad
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Let's say you have a car lift, and Joe's under it when the hydraulic line goes and it drops on him. You're probably liable.
Aren't lifts usually supported by ratcheting gizmos that lock in every few inches?
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This makes me think that a business model I've thought of that would be nice to try, just need $$$$$.
Open up a DIY auto repair shop, like the ones you see on a military base. Have 4-5 bays, a couple with lifts, and then rent them out for a few bucks an hour.
Have a bunch of common tools and then a few of the more special ones that someone might need.
I think those were viable 1950s-1970s when more people did general repair on their vehicles, and for the most part vehicles were simpler to work on and many things were just universal from vehicle to vehicle.
I think less people do their own work on their vehicles now and those that do their own work have the tools and a place to work on them.
I would love to have a place to have a lift to rebuild vehicles, but the rental cost would kill me, because it may be on the lift for 6 months as I work on it in my spare time. Someday I will own a shop with a high enough ceiling for a lift.
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I think those were viable 1950s-1970s when more people did general repair on their vehicles, and for the most part vehicles were simpler to work on and many things were just universal from vehicle to vehicle.
I think less people do their own work on their vehicles now and those that do their own work have the tools and a place to work on them.
I would love to have a place to have a lift to rebuild vehicles, but the rental cost would kill me, because it may be on the lift for 6 months as I work on it in my spare time. Someday I will own a shop with a high enough ceiling for a lift.
Tis my plan.
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I would love to have a place to have a lift to rebuild vehicles, but the rental cost would kill me, because it may be on the lift for 6 months as I work on it in my spare time. Someday I will own a shop with a high enough ceiling for a lift.
Again, it's not the height of the ceiling, it's the depth of the floor.
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Again, it's not the height of the ceiling, it's the depth of the floor.
;/ If all you ever do is change oil that's great. A trench doesn't help one bit with wheels, brakes, suspension, etc.
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;/ If all you ever do is change oil that's great. A trench doesn't help one bit with wheels, brakes, suspension, etc.
Yep, I'm talking about a frame off restoration of vehicles.
I want something like this
http://www.carguygarage.com/lbtwopostfloorp.html
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Aren't lifts usually supported by ratcheting gizmos that lock in every few inches?
Yes, there is some sort of build in redundant safety in them, at least on the ones that are built after OSHA.
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Yep, I'm talking about a frame off restoration of vehicles.
Once you take the frame out, most of the other pieces are easy to turn over when you need to work on the bottom of them.
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Once you take the frame out, most of the other pieces are easy to turn over when you need to work on the bottom of them.
It's not about doing body work, but working on the frame, suspension and drive train at a comfortable height.
There are other apparatuses for doing body work. Front clips are manageable once taken apart, but the body off a full frame car/truck is not.
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I think those were viable 1950s-1970s when more people did general repair on their vehicles, and for the most part vehicles were simpler to work on and many things were just universal from vehicle to vehicle
Shared resources are actually needed even more now, because nobody can afford the $600 dealer tool you need to flush your brakes or other simple things on their own.
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Shared resources are actually needed even more now, because nobody can afford the $600 dealer tool you need to flush your brakes or other simple things on their own.
27 years of auto ownership covering cars of the 70s, 90s, early and current aughts and I've never been prevented from doing the work I want to do by virtue of lacking a "dealer tool". There are plenty of alternative processes and tools to get you around that "requirement".
Chris
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27 years of auto ownership covering cars of the 70s, 90s, early and current aughts and I've never been prevented from doing the work I want to do by virtue of lacking a "dealer tool". There are plenty of alternative processes and tools to get you around that "requirement".
Chris
Same. I actually can't recall anything I've worked on that required a tool so specialized I couldn't find at the auto parts or hardware store.
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There are generally workarounds for specialized tooling...even at the dealer level I rarely use what the service manual calls for to do a job