Author Topic: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain  (Read 4041 times)

vaskidmark

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More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« on: May 11, 2010, 05:20:33 AM »
OK, so it starts with MoMA, which means I'm not going to get it anyhow.  But seriously, standing in/on line for hours so that you can sit and stare at some doofus wearing a bathrobe is now ART?

THIS is what the PSAs have been telling us needs to be kept in our schools or unnamed dire consequences will befall our children?  Do THIS for the children? ???

Now, depending on how they look and what exactly they are doing I probably will not object to live nude performers, although it does make me wonder if folks ought to be bringing their younger children to see that.  (Oh, and you live nude performers - you are in NY Effn' City, did you expect anything less than inappropriate advances by museum-goers?)

And after looking at pictures of the artist eating an onion, or with a snake on her head, you felt it compelling to come back not once more, but TWICE?   :facepalm:  WTF, lady.  Seriously, WTF?

OK, at least I think I know why, after 189 minutes of staring at the artist sitting in her bathrobe you broke down in tears -- you finally figured out your life was so pathetic and meaningless that you considered doing that as the best way to spend your entire day.

If anyone wants to tell me why/how this exhibit and the people who spend all day waiting to get in to see it enhances civilization in any way other than 1) getting money for MoMA or 2) keeping these kinds of people off the streets, I will be over there *points towards public toilet* creating my own works of art.

OH!  As for the vast majority of folks in the comments who support the exhibit?  Just additional evidence the circling is getting faster and faster.

stay safe.

skidmark


http://www.lemondrop.com/2010/05/07/marina-abramovic-the-modern-art-exhibit-making-everyone-cry/?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl4|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemondrop.com%2F2010%2F05%2F07%2Fmarina-abramovic-the-modern-art-exhibit-making-everyone-cry%2F

Quote
May 7th 2010 By Susannah Edelbaum

Marina Abramovic -- The Modern Art Exhibit Making Everyone Cry
First PersonLiving102 CommentsCurrently on the sixth floor of the Museum of Modern Art in New York City, the museum is presenting "The Artist Is Present," a retrospective of work by the Yugoslavian performance artist Marina Abramovic.

There is a busy room providing pictures and videos that make up a cacophonous visual biography -- here Abramovic is eating a raw onion, there she is with a snake on her head -- and there are the interactive pieces. In addition to the live nude performers (many of whom have complained about inappropriate advances by museum-goers), these works help a viewer move from the visual sphere and closer into Abramovic's mind.

This experience of the artist and her work, of course, can only communicate so much, and on the atrium level is Abramovic herself, silently seated within a large cleared square, with football-stadium-style lighting set high up around the quiet enclosure, eliminating shadows. A chair is set across from her, and anyone is invited to sit, likewise silently, and stare. Visitors to "The Artist Is Present" start queuing before the museum opens and patiently wait hours to accomplish this.

However, the experience "is much more than a staring contest," noted Dimitri, seated on line next to me during my more recent visit.

A graphic designer and photographer from New Jersey who'd come ready to wait for the day, Dimitri became interested in "The Artist Is Present" after seeing the live cam online, and subsequently creating his own version with screengrabs.

Dorel, a New Yorker who'd also been waiting since the museum opened that day, was visiting with her 16-year-old daughter. She too was sucked in by the web cam, which her daughter had shown her. It was her third visit to the show. The first, she said, was overwhelming, and on the second visit her daughter was "the one who kind of got it." Now she was back again, but with a bad sunburn, so unsure whether she'd endure the wait for an actual audience with the artist.

What is it about this woman in a chair? In New York City each day, millions of people sit across from other perfect strangers on subway trains. Here, doing just that, the viewers often start to cry. Like the woman shown here; it took her 189 minutes before she broke down in tears. Though others crack much sooner. And they all wait in line to do so.

The sitting becomes part of the experience. I found myself staring at Abramovic from afar, in her long white gown and powerful side braid, wondering trivial thoughts that slowly built up and ran around my brain: Was she beautiful? I couldn't decide. I guess all faces look the same, I thought then, two eyes, a nose and a mouth. Do they look the same to her? Does she have face nausea from looking at too many people?

Sometimes, I noticed, she would close her eyes and bow her head, inducing the current fellow sitter to leave. Did that mean she was tired of that particular person!? Or maybe she was just trying to egalitarianize the line. (There were rumors of a woman who had warmed the chair across from Abramovic for a full seven hours. Hello, therapy!)

With no answer for my own thoughts during the first visit, I started talking to the patient people waiting around me – Kevin, 36, was visiting from Rhode Island and was, like most people I talked to, prepared to stay until closing time. For him, the waiting was part of it – "I've been to MoMA a ton of times, and I've never sat and just people watched, and contemplated," he told me. Abramovic, it seems -- by inducing viewers to watch her -- has also led them to notice each other more.

Of course, there are always exceptions. It was on my second visit, still trying to take my rightful turn in front of the artist, when Isabella Rossellini arrived -- and was promptly ushered in front of the masses for her tête-à-tête. Surprisingly, I wasn't jealous -- or seething. From having spent so much time observing, it was clear that making it into the chair was only one aspect of the piece, and, in her rush, Rossellini may have missed out on one of the most fundamental, and more importantly, rewarding aspects of the work.

For my part, though I never got to stare deep into her eyes, thanks to Abramovic, I studied faces more carefully all the way home. The features, the emotions. The sameness of us all. And the not-sameness, too. Just by sitting, with an empty chair serving as an invite, Abramovic had turned the world into a living museum for the rest of us.

Susannah Edelbaum lives in Brooklyn. She's covered gallery shows for Art Cat and more gallery shows, plus fun fashion stuff, for Gen Art Pulse.

Saturday 08 May
By Cassandra
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I particpated in a similar exercise many years ago in India at an ashram outside Bombay. 180 of us sat in pairs staring into each other's eyes for half an hour before moving oon to the next pairing. To this day I'n not sure of the mechanism at workm but I do know it was iintensely moving .... after a time one had the sense of going beyond the body into the other person's soul. There were tears and many connections made in that small space of time.

Interesting to see this exericse repeated in quite another ... and more public settiing .....

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Monday 10 May
By Denise
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How about I be a typical New Yorker and smack that b**ch for starring! LMAOOOOO - what does the sarcasm keyboard symbol look like again???


Monday 10 May
By Alisa skinner
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Being with another while looking into the others eyes, we realize we are One.The tears release our fears, our feelings of isolation and loneliness in a world where human emotions are something to manipulate, coerce and commercialize for capitol gain.


Monday 10 May
By drer
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Tuesday 11 May
By TavitaNeutralReportPositiveNegative
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I too participated in a similar exercise during a workshop here in Puerto Rico. I agree with you. It's so intensive to see beyond the body... see your partner's soul (In my case was a stranger who sat in front of me) then see your own soul... I saw my fears, my sadness, my strengths... uff... it was moving...

Maybe this artist got the idea from some kind of exercise like the ones we participated...


Tuesday 11 May
By PANTYsniffer
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looks like potsie webber


Tuesday 11 May
By sugarcreekchile
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So it is to be able to present ridiculous exhibits like this that MOMA has sold off paintings it owned by Pablo Picasso and Jackson Pollock and that taxpayer's money through federal funding is being wasted on. A collage of her eating an onion, putting a snake on her head, etc., nude performers, and sitting in a chair staring at people. If that's art then my husband should get federal funding as he chomps raw onions, my kid should get federal funding because he's an expert at sitting silent with a blank stare on his face when you ask him about something, the local strip club should get federal funding as they have nude perfomers and let's not forget to fund all those snake handler churches. Surprise, we're all artists and we'll be happy to charge $20 admission like MOMA does for people to watch us.
It's amazing what passes for art and what gullible people are so willing to applaud. The Picasso and Pollock are gone and Abramovic is laughing all the way to the bank. I just remembered my cat litter box needs dumping. Maybe, I should just sell it to MOMA since it's a piece of contemporary art created by extremely creative felines.


Monday 10 May
By Kevintripod
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WTF ????

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Monday 10 May
By Mark
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This is stupid!

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Monday 10 May
By jredsj
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And this passes for art? I could put my garbage can up there and say its art.

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Monday 10 May
By Alex
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Hey jreds, please don't do that! Someone else has already claimed his garbage can to be a work of art. I saw one on exhibit years ago. You might be sued for "theft of artistic creative thought"! :-)


Monday 10 May
By blarg
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how existential...


Monday 10 May
By Katie Middleton
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You are ignorant.


Monday 10 May
By poot
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first, jred, you have to be intelligent enough to grasp the concept of "art." I'd suggest you figure out that part before you make snotty, unintelligent comments.


Monday 10 May
By savagemouse
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I don't get this.

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Tuesday 11 May
By Dave
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I think I would cry too if I had nothing better to do than sit quietly across from a silent stranger for THREE HOURS. At least on the subway or airplane, we can talk to each other, strangers or not.

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Monday 10 May
By Joycears
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What a bunch of crap this is!!!

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Monday 10 May
By sharon
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tears? is this from the artist or the audience??? i know some people's faces have made me want to cry.and the hippie,lovey-dovey stupidity of it all would as well.good grief,you want to meet people,get into their heads? be a shrink.that's what's most of these visitors are in desperate need of it would appear.

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Monday 10 May
By Jenn
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I get tired of looking at the same person for about an hour..are you kidding me


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taurusowner

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2010, 05:39:09 AM »
What is MoMA?

Viking

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2010, 05:43:40 AM »
“The modern world will not be punished. It is the punishment.” — Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2010, 10:59:32 AM »
People want to pay their own money for this, I don't care. It's the taxes that get funneled their way that vexes me.
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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2010, 12:14:21 PM »
I may not know much about art, but I know what I like.  If you have to explain it to me, then it's not art.

 
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People want to pay their own money for this, I don't care. It's the taxes that get funneled their way that vexes me.

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Ned Hamford

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 12:46:37 PM »
"So it is to be able to present ridiculous exhibits like this that MOMA has sold off paintings it owned by Pablo Picasso and Jackson Pollock"

 :facepalm:
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sanglant

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 01:35:26 PM »
finally the job obama was born for.

Racehorse

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 02:59:18 PM »
"So it is to be able to present ridiculous exhibits like this that MOMA has sold off paintings it owned by Pablo Picasso and Jackson Pollock"

 :facepalm:

I agree on Picasso, but I've always though Jackson Pollock's stuff was crap.

taurusowner

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 03:16:40 PM »
Most modern "art" is nothing more than people trying to out shock and out weird each other.  The self proclaimed artists just look for ways to present a meaningless and often offensive idea in the most ridiculous manner possible, and then claim they are pushing some sort of frontier into new ways of expression.  I could fill a Wal-Mart swimming pool with a few thousand Powerade bottles and in would be just as valid as art as anything these people come up with.  Art is about skill, not just finding people to look at you being weird.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 03:34:27 PM »
If it an "artist's" art stand on it's own merit then they should consider finding a paying gig. Even DaVinci had "real jobs".

As for art, I use a simple standard for judging it, If I can do it, it ain't art.
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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 03:52:17 PM »
Quote
If I can do it, it ain't art.

I haven't been able to have a solid BM in days...

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 03:59:09 PM »
I haven't been able to have a solid BM in days...

DD

Time to apply for that NEA grant.

Oh, and . . . .  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBTBToJBAIk   (possibly NSFW)

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 04:31:34 PM »
[soapbox mode]I adamantly oppose taxpayer subsidies of art. Unlike the Middle Ages or even the Renaissance, today's so-called artist has ample opportunity to advertise his alleged art via newspapers, radio, television, and of course the Internet. The modern American artist lives in a land with a population approaching a third of a billion souls, and an annual economy somewhere north of fifteen trilliion dollars. And of course, thanks to the Internet, he has an opportunity to reach billions of potential customers. If, with all these advantages, the modern artist is still unable to support himself through sales of what he asserts is art, then he really needs to find himself a real job doing something that's actually useful to someone other than himself, as we, the overburdened taxpayers, have no ethical, moral, or legal obligation to support an untalented hack as he pursues his hobby. [/soapbox mode]
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thebaldguy

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 09:55:01 PM »
If it makes you think, then it's good art. But that doesn't mean you want it in your living room.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2010, 11:12:46 PM »
Quote
If it makes you think, then it's good art.

What if it makes you think WTF was that idiot thinking?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2010, 11:24:49 PM »
I was always kind of partial to this style of art myself:


myrockfight

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2010, 01:33:41 AM »
My mother is a very talented artist. She has been recognized in published media as such. She worked very hard for a long time aquiring the skills needed to draw, paint in watercolor, oils, and acrylics. People who are "real artists" do not recognize these people as artists.

That is my perspective also. These kind of people sit around and blow smoke up each other's arses their whole artsy fartsy career. I don't think it is art in the sense of how 99% of us define it. The definition of art is where most of us disagree with the guys getting grants and those giving it.

This so called "art" is actually a lazy form of socialogy, therapy, meditation, etc. Depending on the viewer, it could be just one of those things; it could be all three or more. It also serves as a form of identity and reinforcement of an individual's ego/peer recognition. Mostly it seems to serve the ego by the viewer's ability to brag about it with like minds.

 Moron 1: "Oh did you go see the BS exhibit at MoMA?"
Moron 2: "I've been dying to go see it! DID YOU?! You actually got to sit down? I waited for four hours in line, but had to leave and didn't get to see it!"

Moron 1: "Yeah. I sat in the chair and the artist actually came up and talked to me. It was sooooo moving!"

Moron 2: "OMG! Wait until Malik, Jacque, and so and so hear about it! They will just die!"
Moron1: *thinking to self "I'm sooooo special. Every one of them is going to be jealous. And I'm going to be the only one to be able to talk about this. They'll never be able to top that! I'm the existential thinker. I connect with people because I'm sooooooo different and special!!"

Not only do I think this is the problem with what people are calling art, it is the socialogical weakness that seems to be the most prevalently exploited by people looking to manipulate others. Maybe it's just what I have been noticing a lot of. They want to feel special and identify with something. In their minds the artsy-fartsy type are smarter, more enlightened, "in touch", sensitive, and can be described as virtually every positive attribute known to man. So they need to do everything they can to be able to affirm their identification of the aforementioned group to both themselves and, more importantly, their perceived peers.

How is this done? Walking, talking, doing, repeating, all the thoughts and actions of the group you wish to identify with. What does high-society do? They buy/"appreciate" art. And they go to ballets, operas, etc., not so much to enjoy the performance, but to say they went. They try to take part in exclusive things appropriate to that affirmation. The more exclusive...the better. They don't try to excel at anything, they simply try to do more to reach full identification. Which translates to self-confidence, self-esteem, peer acceptance, etc. Which also explains why they are liberal, voted for Obama, think the Constitution is a "living document," carbon credits are a good idea, capitalism sucks, white males are evil and should be ashamed of themselves, and basically anything else that they think the Ivy League elitists say they should be.

 [barf]

Monkeyleg

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2010, 10:52:01 AM »
Yep. Lots of phonies.

You might appreciate this (the apropo scene is at the end): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpIYz8tfGjY

MechAg94

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2010, 12:05:32 PM »
Quote
Sigh. If the word isn't full of wonder to you, carry a picture frame and stare through it. Like magic, it will make everything "Modern Art," which is by definition anything you say it is.

Well, maybe not You, but Somebody Important. A narcissist of the first water, who's learned that if you say "IT's SO" loudly enough, over and over, you'll gather a crowd of sad, uncertain folks, painfully relieved to finally find somebody with The Answer.

Once you have That, you too can say "It's SO" loudly and often. You won't ever feel alone; and soon enough, you can have you own gallery show.
I liked this quote from the comments.
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MechAg94

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2010, 12:14:02 PM »
I consider my mother an artist.  She makes ceramic and porcelain dolls.  She sews the outfits, does the painting, pours/fires the ceramic, everything.  She has a handful of dolls she has made from scratch, sculpting the heads and making the mold along with everything else.  IMO, that is art and is also a lot of hard work.  I wonder how many of those modern art types have that kind of skill to create stuff. 

Hell, IMO, the ability of someone like John Browning to conceive and create something like the 1911 is art, and is a lot more meaningful and appreciated by more people.
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sanglant

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2010, 02:45:35 PM »
real artists are normally broke, i know one that's lives in a single wide trailer, and works in tyson. =( the idiot teachers in school told him he was worthless, and he believed it.

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2010, 04:12:38 PM »
moma in NY,NY has a great antique firearms collection, as well as antique musical instruments.
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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2010, 03:33:41 AM »
I've always though Jackson Pollock's stuff was crap.

Of course it is. 
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seeker_two

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2010, 06:24:37 AM »
Quote
In addition to the live nude performers (many of whom have complained about inappropriate advances by museum-goers)....

I wonder if they wear little garter belts....for the tips, of course...  ;)
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Jamisjockey

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Re: More evidence that civilization is circling the drain
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2010, 08:23:14 AM »
I don't care if its a crucifix of mohammed in a vat of monkey urine.  Call whatever you want "Art".  Even "art" should be subjected to the process of the free market. The .gov shouldn't be forking over money to so called "artists".  Pelosi should have been slapped when she said that people should be able to get health care and a living wage pursuing thier dream, whatever that dream is.   [barf]  If you can't get someone to buy your crucifix of mohammed in a vat of monkey urine, you should starve in the street.
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