Author Topic: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!  (Read 10129 times)

K Frame

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2018, 01:55:34 PM »
Flat roofs on residential structures should bring a death penalty to the designer.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Brad Johnson

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2018, 04:46:00 PM »
Flat roofs on residential structures should bring a death penalty to the designer.

As someone who has 80,000 sq ft of them to deal with on a daily basis, I think flat roofs should be banned, period. Penalty of death isn't good enough. Include, fire, flood, plague, and being forced to lie about it being fistful's fault.

Brad
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Hawkmoon

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2018, 05:42:56 PM »
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2018, 09:48:34 PM »
I understand wood, because it being something you can more or less acquire yourself, but why coal if pellet isn't good enough?  Both require someone else's supply line.  I would think coal is more troublesome to acquire than pellet in most areas of the country.  I can't say I've ever known anyone to heat with coal except you.

Chris

A friend of mine has an exposed vein of coal on his farm. High sulfur stuff but he burns some in his shop stove.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Hawkmoon

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2018, 09:59:12 PM »
Yeaaaa... We both have that problem.

Corrugated stainless steel tubing.  It is to gas pipe what PEX is to water pipe.   Flexible, easier to install.

Easier to install because almost nobody installs it to code. It requires bonding -- but, last I knew (5 years ago) there was NO UL-approved bonding connector for attaching to CSST. When I was working as an assistant building official, we investigated a fire in a brand new house. Lightning strike in the neighborhood (off the property). Lightning followed the gas pipe into the house. CSST wasn't properly bonded, lightning jumped from the CSST to a sheet metal air duct nearby, and set the floor joist on fire. Most of the living room merged with the basement.

There's a newer version out now by one of the manufacturers that's supposed to address that issue. I haven't kept up on it. I don't like the stuff, don't trust the stuff, and would never have it in my own house.
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Nick1911

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2018, 10:20:27 PM »
Easier to install because almost nobody installs it to code. It requires bonding -- but, last I knew (5 years ago) there was NO UL-approved bonding connector for attaching to CSST. When I was working as an assistant building official, we investigated a fire in a brand new house. Lightning strike in the neighborhood (off the property). Lightning followed the gas pipe into the house. CSST wasn't properly bonded, lightning jumped from the CSST to a sheet metal air duct nearby, and set the floor joist on fire. Most of the living room merged with the basement.

There's a newer version out now by one of the manufacturers that's supposed to address that issue. I haven't kept up on it. I don't like the stuff, don't trust the stuff, and would never have it in my own house.

Flash-shield.  Advertises "no additional bonding".

I went through gastite training a few years ago, though I'd have to relearn it if I ever messed with the stuff.  What does the IFGC have to say about it?

zxcvbob

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2018, 10:27:29 PM »
Interesting discussion about bonding.  That never would have occurred to me, but this thread is the first I've heard of flexible SS gas lines.  
I did find this: http://www.csstsafety.com/Images/CSST-Direct-Bonding-Tech-Bulletin.pdf
"It's good, though..."

K Frame

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2018, 07:00:58 AM »
Doesn't black iron pipe require bonding, as well?

I wouldn't have thought CCST would be treated any differently.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

mtnbkr

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2018, 07:16:46 AM »
A friend of mine has an exposed vein of coal on his farm. High sulfur stuff but he burns some in his shop stove.

He should build a big trash fire over top of it. 

Chris

Jim147

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2018, 07:20:12 AM »
You can recert for flash shield on line takes about 30-40 minutes. I haven't installed any of it yet. I'm installing pro flex because I can get it in 25 foot sections as opposed to 250 foot I have to buy at the warehouse.

There are no codes around here but I still bond it by the book.

Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

K Frame

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2018, 07:23:04 AM »
Houses in my neighborhood were all built in the mid-late 1950's right at the peak of the Frank Lloyd Wright craze and copying by just about every architect in Chicago.    While they are aesthetically pleasing, they are a maintenance and repair nightmare.   As mechanical engineer friend of mine said, "The nicer they look, the harder they are to build."  So my neighbors that have flat roofs practically live in waterfall when it rains. They've patched, repaired and/or replaced several times in the last decade or so.  They building's useful life is about 60 years, whereas "regular" homes are 150-200.

I'm soooooo glad I just have a "regular" ranch.

Yep, many of FLW's designs have had long-term issues, some of them VERY significant.

You should read sometime what they've had to do to Falling Water to keep it from, well, falling into the water.

Wright also was an early proponent of in-floor radiant heating. In and of itself not a bad thing, but his original steam radiant systems were problematic to say the least. The later hot water radiant systems he designed were great... until the pipes embedded in the slabs were eaten through and the system started to leak.

Same thing happened with the Levittown houses, virtually all of which were built with copper or steel piped in floor radiant. Virtually all of those systems are now out of service because they leaked.

Additionally, they weren't insulated, so the heat loss to the ground was monumental. It used to be said that you could always tell a Levittown house that had an operating radiant heat system, because the flowers were blooming next to the house in the middle of winter.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Jim147

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2018, 07:26:25 AM »
I knew the guy that restored the refrigerator at Falling Water.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

BAH-WEEP-GRAAAGHNAH WHEEP NI-NI BONG

Hawkmoon

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Re: *CENSOREDUNPRINTABLE* furnace!!!!
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2018, 07:39:49 AM »
Interesting discussion about bonding.  That never would have occurred to me, but this thread is the first I've heard of flexible SS gas lines.  
I did find this: http://www.csstsafety.com/Images/CSST-Direct-Bonding-Tech-Bulletin.pdf

What that document omits is that plumbers (the people who install gas piping) are usually not electricians. But it says the bonding has to be done in accordance with the National Electrical Code. One of the NEC requirements is that all components of a system have to be listed and labeled for their use. That means whatever saddle clamp is used to attach the bonding wire to the gas piping system has to be UL listed for bonding to whatever type of pipe you're attaching to. Notice that they now say NOT to bond to the CSST itself. That's because it's too thin, and trying to tighten a saddle clamp just crushes it.

Also, one of the bonding methods listed is "directly connected to the electrical service equipment enclosure." The only people who are allowed to perform work in or on the electrical service enclosure are licensed electricians.
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