Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on May 04, 2024, 10:41:41 AM
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The Ukis are apparently buying Turkish BTS-12 shotguns for anti-drone defense. So much for a worthwhile use of American taxpayer dollars. At least a Ukrainian Oligarch can buy himself a new yacht with the kickback ducats from the Turks.
https://youtu.be/R2WDt6IHp-g
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Spoiler: it's a bullpup shotgun review/test with no load data or terminal performance against UAVs.
I'd start with 1.5 oz of lead #2-BB @ 1300fps. That should be effective out to 50yds depending on the barrel. Patterning it could be brutal.
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Spoiler: it's a bullpup shotgun review/test with no load data or terminal performance against UAVs.
I'd start with 1.5 oz of lead #2-BB @ 1300fps. That should be effective out to 50yds depending on the barrel. Patterning it could be brutal.
It was a durability test. Nothing more, nor advertised as such.
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The Ukrainian connection is literally the first 30 seconds of the video.
https://defence-blog.com/ukrainian-soldiers-use-turkish-made-shotguns-to-counter-fpv-drones/
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I don't know why they would need shotguns. Surely they can get hold of more $2 million missiles to take out the drones.
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I don't know why they would need shotguns. Surely they can get hold of more $2 million missiles to take out the drones.
After the Big Guy and his friends and everyone else along the line take out their share it's all the Ukrainians can afford.
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Take a .50 BMG or a 20MM and make some of those blue CCI shot holders for them and fill them with some #4.
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Take a .50 BMG or a 20MM and make some of those blue CCI shot holders for them and fill them with some #4.
That isn't nearly as portable, but we can certainly talk about it for longer ranges. I still like the shot gun as something easy to hand to troops with range and reach. IMO, something like a goose gun might be better (or at least a shotgun with longish range capability). I wonder how well the military's Beneli M4s would do with heavier shot.
I did see a video on a test vehicle for 30 or 40 mm explosive rounds fired from an anti-air armored vehicle. Looks like a cool concept especially for the intermediate sized drones. Might be a little big for the smaller drones. And I am not certain if the radar can detect the smaller drones effectively.
Dumb Question: If a drone is broadcasting video back to its operator, can the radio emissions be tracked? I am sure it is not easy and if the drones stay low to the ground, much harder.
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That isn't nearly as portable, but we can certainly talk about it for longer ranges. I still like the shot gun as something easy to hand to troops with range and reach. IMO, something like a goose gun might be better (or at least a shotgun with longish range capability). I wonder how well the military's Beneli M4s would do with heavier shot.
I did see a video on a test vehicle for 30 or 40 mm explosive rounds fired from an anti-air armored vehicle. Looks like a cool concept especially for the intermediate sized drones. Might be a little big for the smaller drones. And I am not certain if the radar can detect the smaller drones effectively.
For the discussion, it's important to remember that the shotgun and other newer tactics are specifically for the FPV drones, often off Amazon apparently, that have been all the rage in the two current conflicts. They're not talking shotguns for SUASs like an RQ-20, which if it flew low enough, a shotgun would work, but the FPVs are the ones that are mostly operating in shotgun range.
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A 40mm grenade launcher - especially something like an M19 - would be reasonably effective for taking out small drones if buckshot/beehive ammo were made for it. (Someone makes a 40mm shell containing 15 .22 lr cartridges - functionally, much like the old volley guns.)
Not exactly as portable as a shotgun, of course, but still a lot cheaper than trying to use Stingers on small cheap drones.
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A 40mm grenade launcher - especially something like an M19 - would be reasonably effective for taking out small drones if buckshot/beehive ammo were made for it. (Someone makes a 40mm shell containing 15 .22 lr cartridges - functionally, much like the old volley guns.)
Not exactly as portable as a shotgun, of course, but still a lot cheaper than trying to use Stingers on small cheap drones.
There exists 40mm buckshot rounds, but a Mk19 won't run it. You gotta run it through a 203 or 320. Also, buckshot is a little big for drones.
I actually have one of those cheap bullpen 12gas (mine is Black Aces branded) that I bought as a lark. If I had to carry a second drone specific weapon, it's lightish, shortish, and takes Beretta chokes. It would actually be kinda OK in the role.
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The Ukis are apparently buying Turkish BTS-12 shotguns for anti-drone defense. So much for a worthwhile use of American taxpayer dollars. At least a Ukrainian Oligarch can buy himself a new yacht with the kickback ducats from the Turks.
https://youtu.be/R2WDt6IHp-g
At the 40-second mark in the video: what the hell is that pink thing?
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At the 40-second mark in the video: what the hell is that pink thing?
At that point, the guy is saying something about "high tech jammers" and it and the black one right afterwards have some kind of box with heavy cables going in to the "barrel" of the "gun". It MAY be some kind of EMP device or a RF scrambler to block communication between the drone and any CnC center.
ETA: As for shot size, a 3" #4 Buck has 40 pellets that are 0.25" diameter. That should give them enough range to sufficiently damage a propeller-driven drone out to 60 yds.
I don't remember the shot size of steel shot for "F" or "T" shot but, IIRC, both were notorious for leaving gaps in the pattern after 40 yds. on geese. The only advantage of steel over lead shot is the hardness. It won't go as far nor will it penetrate as deeply as lead shot at the same distance.
But, any drone bigger than 20" across that is over 60-70 yds. away isn't very likely to be damaged enough to take it out.