Author Topic: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!  (Read 7387 times)

MattC

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2009, 09:30:26 PM »
If I could offer an opinion a bit counter to previous statements, it's less about understanding a "liberal" mindset than recognizing a combination of the personal differences in experience and trust in different authority figures.

First, an aside about the labels.  When we start applying these generalist terms--which we generally need in order to have conversations at a high-level about an issue--we over-simplify the individuals involved to take a gross amalgamation of easily observed or reputed traits.  When you look at the individual level, you'll typically find that individuals will be "liberal" on one political topic, "conservative" on another, and "none of the above" on many topics.  The stereotypes are, with relatively few exceptions, not descriptive of individuals; rather, the stereotypes are constructs of political opponents who want a staw-man to easily attack and make a common enemy to rally against.  I won't argue whether it's ethical or not.  We all have witnessed that it is an effective means of communication.

With that said, what I think you're after in understanding the "liberal view" is an understanding of, generally speaking, why an individual would choose a view-point on a topic that favors a governmental authority over an individual privilege.  As mentioned above, I think this disposition is primarily affected by two factors: (1) personal experience, and (2) who they look to as trusted authority figures.  And the same model applies for the "conservative view."

Regarding (1), if he or she had a significant emotional experience in an area related to the political topic, then it pre-disposes him or her to a reaction one way or the other.

For (2), an authority figure on the topic can come from his or her personal life (i.e. a significant other or pastor), childhood (i.e. parents or neighbors), public life (i.e. employer or politician), etc.  Since none of us can research all issues in their entirety, we rely on an accumulation of knowledge presented by others to assist us in our decision making.  It is not an issue of one side ("liberal" or "conservative") being more logical than the other, rather it is more often a miss on what the premises of the argument are or the assumed truth value of a common premise.

So to understand the "liberal view," I'd suggest focusing on those two issues of experience and trusted authority figures, whether you research through literature, personal conversation, or other means.

What I really hope a reader takes from this is: do not vilify one stereotyped group or another, but rather recognize similarities from which you may grow in knowledge.  Starting with the differences sets you up for a fight--it's the old "me vs. you" or "us vs. them" approach that is well on it's way to disagreement rather than understanding.

Meh /soapbox

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,049
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2009, 09:52:50 AM »
Hey Matt -- welcome back! Haven't seen you posting in a long time and remember always enjoying your well thought out posts.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MattC

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2009, 02:30:23 PM »
Hey Matt -- welcome back! Haven't seen you posting in a long time and remember always enjoying your well thought out posts.

Thanks, Ben.  Being home sick the last few days opened up time in my work and social calendar, and I also came back to PM Dick with a question I had.

I love the board still, I just haven't been budgeting time for it.  And you keep adding boards, which just means more time reading!

geekWithA.45

  • friend
  • New Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18
Re: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2009, 09:44:40 PM »
A) Obtain all 2008 issues of Time Magazine extoling the virtues of The One. (Which is pretty much all of them)
B) Travel with them to somewhere where C & D are lawful.
C) Obtain copious, I mean truly prodigious amounts of weed
D) Smoke it until A) makes perfect, ironclad sense to you.
E) Enter detox, taking Atlas Shrugged with you as your reading material. Stay there until that all makes perfect, ironclad sense to you.


MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2009, 06:58:46 AM »
Quote
D) Smoke it until A) makes perfect, ironclad sense to you.

I don't think there's that much weed in the whole wide world.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Regolith

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,171
Re: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2009, 07:28:37 AM »
I don't think there's that much weed in the whole wide world.

It needs to be supplemented with large amounts of LSD.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2009, 10:46:08 AM »
It needs to be supplemented with large amounts of LSD.

Sprinkled with PCP and Miracle Grow.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Ned Hamford

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,075
Re: A Quest to Understand the Liberal View!
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2009, 11:08:05 AM »
Richard Wright's 'I Tried to Be A Communist' helped me understand a few things.  Cult dynamics that have become mainstream.  Folks of the view actively or sometimes passively refuse to interact with those of an opposing view and reject all facts not supporting ect.  And the outright or tacit understanding that to stand against any position of the group will instantly transform you into the vilest of enemies. 

http://www.nathanielturner.com/itriedtobeacommunist.htm

In my own quest for understanding I've largely encountered much of the same. 

I hosted a party two days ago for a friend who is about to be married and had a few folks ready to leave when they found out the host was a conservative.  They were doing some ignorant bashing and I told them its a B party, no time for politics, eat drink and be merry.  They then went around to other guests to ask about me. 

Just to vent, it was also that little group that threw glass bottles against the stonewall on my driveway, made an absolute mess whereever they went, refused to aknowledge the home owner authority [guy is drinking, and not hydrating, but refuses to get out of the hot tub].  None of the buggers RSVPed either but all came a night early and stayed a day late.  Actually wound up kicking them out and they couldn't resist the parting zinger about me 'not doing my duties as a host.' 

:rant mode off:
Improbus a nullo flectitur obsequio.