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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ron on February 24, 2019, 11:22:07 AM

Title: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Ron on February 24, 2019, 11:22:07 AM
Excluding women is ruled unconstitutional.

The Selective Service System is no longer just a boys club.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/24/military-draft-judge-rules-male-only-registration-unconstitutional/2968872002/
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: MillCreek on February 24, 2019, 11:24:52 AM
Consistent with what we were discussing a month or so ago with the possible changes from the National Commission on National, Military and Public Service, I suspect the male-only draft system is on the way out.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: HankB on February 24, 2019, 11:41:38 AM
There probably won't be all that much pushback, since we no longer have an actual draft, we have draft registration.

IMHO instituting an actual draft would be problematic, since having learned the lessons of Vietnam, a lot of young people - more than in the '60s - wouldn't answer the call to fight in an undeclared war our leaders intended to keep us from winning.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 24, 2019, 01:20:00 PM
Is registration actually enforced, or is there some incentive to do it?

I did it because I used to have something called a sense of duty, and because Scott Baio told me it was the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 24, 2019, 01:21:29 PM
There probably won't be all that much pushback...

...because American men no longer care about our females.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: MillCreek on February 24, 2019, 01:29:08 PM
Is registration actually enforced, or is there some incentive to do it?

I did it because I used to have something called a sense of duty, and because Scott Baio told me it was the right thing to do.

If you are a male looking for Federal student loan or grant programs, you must be registered with the Selective Service.  Some states also require it as a condition of being admitted to a state college or university.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: RoadKingLarry on February 24, 2019, 01:47:48 PM
I never bothered to register.
Haven't had any negative repercussions over it.
 
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on February 24, 2019, 01:48:11 PM
Well, I've got no problem with it. Woman want equal rights, then they should get equal responsibilities (including paying with blood if necessary)

...because American men no longer care about our females.

Now, see, THAT'S the real patronizing sexist bullshit that still exists in America.  ;/

Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: 230RN on February 24, 2019, 02:44:31 PM
I still have my draft card.   It said to keep it on my person at all times and AFAIK, I was never released from that injunction.  But of course I don't carry it around any more.   Married student: 2S deferment.

I'm actually just keeping it as memorabilia so I can mention it on gun boards. =D

Moved out to Colorado about that time, pretty much lost contact with old buddies (no internet in the sixties, remember?) so I'm not sure if any of them got drafted.

I was, and still am, of the opinion that females are delicate flowers and should not be out there fighting wars unless it came to "home town ground" defense, in which case they would be bearcats not to be tangled with.  Military training for women?  OK, but no draft.

I still have that outdated notion.

Even though I am pretty much of an egalitarian nature, I am realistic enough to recognize and pay atttention to certain differences between the sexes which are important to species survival.

Terry, 230RN

Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: dogmush on February 24, 2019, 03:38:33 PM
I'm reasonably certain that if it came to a war bad enough that we needed to start drafting folks, we could find some combat jobs for women that they would be effective in, as well as bending to the reality of average physical strength between the sexes.  We don't have to just drop them in infantry units and hope for the best.  We could [gasp] utilize draftees in roles* they are suited for.

(https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Untitled-6.jpg)

(https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2tfx2vr-1024x679.jpg)

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.asiaone.com%2FA1MEDIA%2Fnews%2F02Feb12%2F20120213.151443_tehlynn430.jpg&hash=7d6dcbea77b26afc1c6cae45d49bf82aa2da98e1)

(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k/dpr_1.5/c_limit,w_690/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1/articles/2015/10/18/she-kills-people-from-7-850-miles-away/151017-mauer-drones-embed2_b7kess)

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_Article2016_ControlFaceDetect/427456)

(https://media.wired.com/photos/59cac3c0102443239cd1a2bc/master/w_582,c_limit/Metroid-TopArt.jpg)


*Although, historically, draftee's roles tend to be bullet fodder and tank tread grease, and it doesn't take a bunch of strength to do those.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: MillCreek on February 24, 2019, 03:43:13 PM

Even though I am pretty much of an egalitarian nature, I am realistic enough to recognize and pay atttention to certain differences between the sexes which are important to species survival.


I have read enough dystopian science fiction to endorse your ideas for species survival, but that is only after the population is reduced by 90% due to plague, meteor impact or global nuclear war.  Until then, count me in the equality camp. 
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on February 24, 2019, 04:02:11 PM
I'm reasonably certain that if it came to a war bad enough that we needed to start drafting folks, we could find some combat jobs for women that they would be effective in, as well as bending to the reality of average physical strength between the sexes.  We don't have to just drop them in infantry units and hope for the best.  We could [gasp] utilize draftees in roles* they are suited for.

(https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Untitled-6.jpg)

(https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2tfx2vr-1024x679.jpg)

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.asiaone.com%2FA1MEDIA%2Fnews%2F02Feb12%2F20120213.151443_tehlynn430.jpg&hash=7d6dcbea77b26afc1c6cae45d49bf82aa2da98e1)

(https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k/dpr_1.5/c_limit,w_690/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1/articles/2015/10/18/she-kills-people-from-7-850-miles-away/151017-mauer-drones-embed2_b7kess)

(https://images.jpost.com/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy/t_Article2016_ControlFaceDetect/427456)

(https://media.wired.com/photos/59cac3c0102443239cd1a2bc/master/w_582,c_limit/Metroid-TopArt.jpg)


*Although, historically, draftee's roles tend to be bullet fodder and tank tread grease, and it doesn't take a bunch of strength to do those.

I volunteer for that last role.  =D
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 24, 2019, 04:11:23 PM
I still have my draft card.   It said to keep it on my person at all times and AFAIK, I was never released from that injunction.  But of course I don't carry it around any more.   Married student: 2S deferment.

I'm actually just keeping it as memorabilia so I can mention it on gun boards. =D


I don't think I have my draft card any longer. When I came home from Vietnam someone suggested that we should keep a copy of our DD-214 in our wallets, so I took mine to a professional reproduction shop (since we didn't have home computers, Adobe Acrobat, and personal laser printers in 1968) and had a wallet-sized copy made. It's still in my wallet 50+ years later.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: RoadKingLarry on February 24, 2019, 06:18:42 PM
I don't have a problem with women in combat roles as long as it is the right woman in the right role.

I had the very distinct pleasure of spending yesterday afternoon and evening in the company of 3 young Air Force personnel, 2 of them were women.
I was at a BBQ hosted by an old High School friend that retired after 25 years in the army as Blackhawk crew/crew chief and is currently working a contractor gig in Afghanistan. The 2 women are part of the contractor's security detail and fly with them while they try to train Afghanis to fly Blackhawks with out killing themselves.
They were both contemptuous of the different PT standards for male and females and felt that there should be one standard for all.

I also got some interesting insight into the flusterlcuck in the sandbox.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: dogmush on February 24, 2019, 06:23:54 PM
The new Army pt test, starting next year, is age and gender neutral.

The min score is based on your job, and that's it.

We're all predicting a flusterlcuck.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: sumpnz on February 24, 2019, 09:09:32 PM
Since there are no restrictions on women's participation in any specific jobs anymore there is no rational reason to maintain a male-only draft register.  Either make young women sign up too, or ditch the draft register entirely.  My preference is for the latter.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 24, 2019, 10:59:31 PM
Well, I've got no problem with it. Woman want equal rights, then they should get equal responsibilities (including paying with blood if necessary)

Now, see, THAT'S the real patronizing sexist bullshit that still exists in America.  ;/

There was a time when women were strong enough to bear such savage chauvinism. They made it through somehow.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: 230RN on February 25, 2019, 02:15:34 AM
...

(https://media.wired.com/photos/59cac3c0102443239cd1a2bc/master/w_582,c_limit/Metroid-TopArt.jpg)


*Although, historically, draftees'roles tend to be bullet fodder and tank tread grease, and it doesn't take a bunch of strength to do those.

I volunteer for that last role.  =D

Did you mean as tank tread grease or as that pictured armored soldier?
=D

Terry, 230RN
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: 230RN on February 25, 2019, 03:09:02 PM
I have read enough dystopian science fiction to endorse your ideas for species survival, but that is only after the population is reduced by 90% due to plague, meteor impact or global nuclear war.  Until then, count me in the equality camp.  

I suppose we could argue about the "percentage," or even whether a catastrophe is needed.  I'm talking the myriad little things that enhance our general (or tribal) survival potential when the "delicate flower" aspect of females is honored.  Sure, they can be Amazons if they want, but they shouldn't be forced into a male mileau such as the military meat grinder.

Can you imagine a boxing match between Alejandra Jiménez and Sonny Liston?  Sure, if she wants to do it...

That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

Terry

REF:
https://youtu.be/e5oMXSkpxA0 (6:31, but just sample it.)
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Ron on February 25, 2019, 08:13:33 PM
In all of recorded history how frequently do we see women in the same combat roles as men, not out of necessity but due to their superiority in combat?

Not being a military historian I honestly don’t know, I have an idea though.

Personally, I don’t give a flying *expletive deleted*ck about equality in the armed forces one way or the other. My life experiences lead me to lean toward “People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf”. There may be exceptions to the rule but the exceptions prove the rule. There does seem to be a pretty good track record of women pilots. I’m sure there are other niches or exceptions.

I want the best esprit de corps and the best individuals doing the roles for which  they are best qualified.

I’m curious dogmush, why do you predict a flusterlcuck?
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: BlueStarLizzard on February 25, 2019, 08:27:11 PM
There was a time when women were strong enough to bear such savage chauvinism. They made it through somehow.

*snort* and you just see us lining up in droves to go back to that, don't you?

My vejaja doesn't make me special anymore than your wiener makes you special, and as far as I'm concerned all of us are responsible for pulling our own weight. Woman, en mass, decided they wanted equality. This is part of that.

I know that the whole idea that woman don't need to be treated like delicate little flowers offends many of you on some deep caveman level of your souls, but you're just going to have to get over it.
Because the harsh truth is that woman *shouldn't* be treated like delicate little flowers. Part of the problem we have RIGHT NOW is our society gave woman equal rights without forcing equal responsibilities and the result is everything everyone on this board agrees is horrendous.

Modern "Feminism"

And no, the answer is not pushing us all back into the kitchens, barefoot and pregnant. That can of worms was busted open long ago, so now the only answer is to finish what was started and making woman get their draft cards is a good start.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 25, 2019, 09:50:32 PM
*snort* and you just see us lining up in droves to go back to that, don't you?

More or less. There are plenty of women writing opinion pieces and blog posts, and recording podcasts; that say essentially that.


Quote
My vejaja doesn't make me special anymore than your wiener makes you special, and as far as I'm concerned all of us are responsible for pulling our own weight. Woman, en mass, decided they wanted equality. This is part of that.

It's a part of the lunatic equality that treats unlike things as like. Sure, we can recognize that men and women are alike in intelligence, and in many other ways. There's no movement in the post-modern West to bar women from most of the traditionally male endeavors, like surgery or carpentry. The vast majority of us are just fine with a fact-based equality.

But no, women and men are not alike in every way, and the idea that government or society must erase every difference is mad.


Quote
I know that the whole idea that woman don't need to be treated like delicate little flowers offends many of you on some deep caveman level of your souls, but you're just going to have to get over it.

No, I don't have to get over it. You can disagree with me, but you're wrong. Sorry about that.


Quote
Because the harsh truth is that woman *shouldn't* be treated like delicate little flowers. Part of the problem we have RIGHT NOW is our society gave woman equal rights without forcing equal responsibilities and the result is everything everyone on this board agrees is horrendous.

Modern "Feminism"

And no, the answer is not pushing us all back into the kitchens, barefoot and pregnant. That can of worms was busted open long ago, so now the only answer is to finish what was started and making woman get their draft cards is a good start.


You're saying that the problem with modern feminism is that it needs more modern feminism. The whole problem with modern post-modern feminism is that it tries to erase even very reasonable differences between the sexes, just like you're demanding we do with this military draft business. I'm no expert on the topic, but it appears you have a lot more thinking to do on the subject, as well.  
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: dogmush on February 26, 2019, 07:44:06 AM

I’m curious dogmush, why do you predict a flusterlcuck?

A variety of reasons.  The new test needs a bunch of expensive equipment, will take longer to administer, and needs equipment to train for.

Also, more relevant to this thread, when they normalized the minimum scores for gender and age, the kinda middle aged female run scores all got faster, with more crap in front of it. so there's going to be a lot of mid 30's and up Sr. NCO's and O4-O5's that go from having to do 38 situps, 13 pushups, and 2 miles in ~23 min to A dead lift, Chucking a medicine ball, 10 pushups, a 400M shuttle run a weird pullup and 2 miles in 21 min.

Coupled with the new test having no provisions for permanent medical profiles, there's going to be a fair amount of folks men and women, that all of a sudden can't meet standards.  With all the whining that will involve.

I've already built a pullup bar and bought a medicine ball to start getting ready, but anecdotally there's a bunch of soldiers with the attitude of "If the Army doesn't provide me the stuff they can't make me meet the new standard".  Which, honestly, shows a breathtaking lack of understanding about the military in general for folks that have been in 10-15 years.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Ron on February 26, 2019, 08:24:45 AM
Sounds like they have made what should be simple, complicated.

Thanks and good luck.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 26, 2019, 08:35:30 AM
*snort* and you just see us lining up in droves to go back to that, don't you?

My vejaja doesn't make me special anymore than your wiener makes you special, and as far as I'm concerned all of us are responsible for pulling our own weight. Woman, en mass, decided they wanted equality. This is part of that.

I know that the whole idea that woman don't need to be treated like delicate little flowers offends many of you on some deep caveman level of your souls, but you're just going to have to get over it.
Because the harsh truth is that woman *shouldn't* be treated like delicate little flowers. Part of the problem we have RIGHT NOW is our society gave woman equal rights without forcing equal responsibilities and the result is everything everyone on this board agrees is horrendous.

Modern "Feminism"

And no, the answer is not pushing us all back into the kitchens, barefoot and pregnant. That can of worms was busted open long ago, so now the only answer is to finish what was started and making woman get their draft cards is a good start.

https://youtu.be/26-VzfBZg1w
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: makattak on February 26, 2019, 09:10:16 AM
I've mentioned to my wife that women looked at the curse of man and thought: "It's not fair! Men get all this fulfillment from work and I'm stuck having children and taking care of the house."

So women willingly, eagerly grabbed up the curse of man.... and have discovered that most work isn't all that fulfilling, and now blame men for work being a terrible, soul-sucking experience.


It's always been that way for most men. Very few people get to "work at what they love and never work a day in their lives." And even most of those who do know that there is a lot of drudgery in it.

But they keep pushing, SURE that when they take over this next area that men have "ruled" they will find fulfillment. This will not end in female empowerment or satisfaction, either.  
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Ron on February 26, 2019, 09:31:29 AM
Men are becoming more soft and mildly effeminate.

Women are becoming harder and more masculine.

Correlation my not signal causation but is anyone surprised that the west is failing to reproduce at replacement levels? The west is getting a “D” in basic biology and that is grading on a scale.

Regarding the military,

What does it take to create the smartest, most effective and dangerous military?

What makes a superior fighting force?

I’m not talking about technology, I’m talking about personnel.

Are we persuing that level of excellence regardless of political or social opinions?

Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: DittoHead on February 26, 2019, 09:43:44 AM
most work isn't all that fulfilling, and now blame men for work being a terrible, soul-sucking experience.
It's always been that way for most men. Very few people get to "work at what they love and never work a day in their lives." And even most of those who do know that there is a lot of drudgery in it.
But they keep pushing, SURE that when they take over this next area that men have "ruled" they will find fulfillment. This will not end in female empowerment or satisfaction, either.  

Quote from: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/
The decline of traditional faith in America has coincided with an explosion of new atheisms. Some people worship beauty, some worship political identities, and others worship their children. But everybody worships something. And workism is among the most potent of the new religions competing for congregants.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: makattak on February 26, 2019, 10:03:57 AM
Men are becoming more soft and mildly effeminate. (1)

Women are becoming harder and more masculine. (2)

Correlation my not signal causation but is anyone surprised that the west is failing to reproduce at replacement levels? The west is getting a “D” in basic biology and that is grading on a scale.

Regarding the military,

What does it take to create the smartest, most effective and dangerous military?

What makes a superior fighting force?

I’m not talking about technology, I’m talking about personnel.

Are we persuing that level of excellence regardless of political or social opinions?



Statement (1) is likely correct. Massive wealth and leisure tend to encourage "softness" and the entirety of world history is there to bear that out.

Statement (2) I see very little evidence for. In fact, as societies become more and more "egalitarian", like the Norse countries, we see women gravitating even more to "female pursuits." Additionally, in our own country we are seeing an increasing rejection  of rationality in favor of emotionalism. Masculine, that is not.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Ben on February 26, 2019, 10:04:23 AM
a weird pullup and 2 miles in 21 min.


What is the weird pullup? Is it only one? I guess because pullups have always been the hardest thing for me to do of everything listed, I would have expected "new norms" to replace it with something else (with the assumption that everyone sucks at them as much as I do  =D ).

The pushups were interesting to me because of what I consider a low number. I'm thinking anyone of military age should be able to knock out a single set of 20 without breaking a sweat. I just read that doctors are now looking at using pushups as a measure of health as a replacement for, or at least as important as, VO2 Max. Quicker to measure and doesn't require all the equipment.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Ben on February 26, 2019, 10:06:56 AM
Statement (1) is likely correct. Massive wealth and leisure tend to encourage "softness" and the entirety of world history is there to bear that out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crmRylcbQds
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: dogmush on February 26, 2019, 10:29:46 AM
What is the weird pullup? Is it only one? I guess because pullups have always been the hardest thing for me to do of everything listed, I would have expected "new norms" to replace it with something else (with the assumption that everyone sucks at them as much as I do  =D ).

The pushups were interesting to me because of what I consider a low number. I'm thinking anyone of military age should be able to knock out a single set of 20 without breaking a sweat. I just read that doctors are now looking at using pushups as a measure of health as a replacement for, or at least as important as, VO2 Max. Quicker to measure and doesn't require all the equipment.

For the weird pull up you hold the bar in an alternating grip, with your body perpendicular to the bar (That is 90* from a normal pull up).  Pull up with your arms while simultaneously tucking your legs to your chest. Then return to straight arm hang.

The numbers I posted are minimum passing grades for the lowest tier of job.  If you want a good score (for promotions*) or to be infantry or such, you'll have to do more.

More info on this particular thread drift can be had here: https://www.army.mil/acft/


*The fact that your PT score gets you promotion points (at least for the lower enlisted ranks) I suspect will end up being an issue.  Females will have a MUCH harder time getting high scores than males.  You may recall that it was the promotion potential that got females into Ranger School.  FWIW, I'm a fan of the age/gender normalization plan.  Either you can do it, or you can't.  I just foresee there being some teething issues.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Ron on February 27, 2019, 10:50:53 AM
Statement (1) is likely correct. Massive wealth and leisure tend to encourage "softness" and the entirety of world history is there to bear that out.

Statement (2) I see very little evidence for. In fact, as societies become more and more "egalitarian", like the Norse countries, we see women gravitating even more to "female pursuits." Additionally, in our own country we are seeing an increasing rejection  of rationality in favor of emotionalism. Masculine, that is not.

Regarding women becoming more masculine maybe you are correct. There was an old order or traditional way of behaving that was considered feminine. In reality, like chivalry, it wasn’t entirely biologically innate but part of our culture that emphasized the most feminine aspects of women that are innate. Emphasis on the good and beautiful if you will.

Now when I interact with women who have been raised outside of that way they often come off as course, vulgar and acting like one of the guys. They are of course still female and if you “forget” they are a woman and start treating them like one of the guys you will be called out eventually.

Oddly, there is often still an expectation that men will act with chivalry even though it has become more typical that women have abandoned their part of that arrangement.

All that to say, I guess I agree with you. Women are still feminine in that they still view the world as women do, through the feminine perspective. What I’m seeing is just a rejection of a culture that emphasized that which was considered the best and most beautiful about women. Just as chivalry and acting noble was an attempt to emphasize what was best and desirable in a man.

Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: dogmush on February 27, 2019, 02:24:18 PM
Having had the good fortune to have some long lived remarkable ladies in my family I've met a fair amount of Midwestern's Dairy farmer's wives and Alabama Sharecropper's wives, as well as a lady that ran a boarding house in the 30's and a lady that was a research scientist in the 40's. I'm not sure that the "emphasis on the good and beautiful" was as universal as you think.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: MechAg94 on February 27, 2019, 05:04:25 PM
Having had the good fortune to have some long lived remarkable ladies in my family I've met a fair amount of Midwestern's Dairy farmer's wives and Alabama Sharecropper's wives, as well as a lady that ran a boarding house in the 30's and a lady that was a research scientist in the 40's. I'm not sure that the "emphasis on the good and beautiful" was as universal as you think.
I always have to ask how much is old culture and how much is TV/Movie culture since the 40's.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 27, 2019, 05:19:07 PM

The pushups were interesting to me because of what I consider a low number. I'm thinking anyone of military age should be able to knock out a single set of 20 without breaking a sweat.

It depends on upper body strength. I was a four sport athlete in high school and three sports in college. I don't think I have ever been able to do twenty proper pushups ... not even when I was in the Army.
Title: Re: Women may soon have to register for the military draft
Post by: Ron on February 27, 2019, 05:33:12 PM
I always have to ask how much is old culture and how much is TV/Movie culture since the 40's.

Yea, there’s that also.



Posted by: dogmush
Quote
Having had the good fortune to have some long lived remarkable ladies in my family I've met a fair amount of Midwestern's Dairy farmer's wives and Alabama Sharecropper's wives, as well as a lady that ran a boarding house in the 30's and a lady that was a research scientist in the 40's. I'm not sure that the "emphasis on the good and beautiful" was as universal as you think.

Well by G&B I was referring to character, maximizing ones best natural traits.

I’m not sure how what you describe is in conflict with the ideal of  “good and beautiful”. Particularly or especially if they were mothers as well.