Author Topic: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question  (Read 5849 times)

Ben

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Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« on: June 10, 2008, 03:10:32 PM »
I know there's a bunch of us on APS. I'm just curious -- do any of your agencies make you do "local" travel orders? By which I mean, let's say you're driving 30-40 miles one way to a meeting for one day using a GOV, you have to submit no-cost orders. Mine recently got all excited about doing this, and I find it incredibly annoying, not to mention a waste of tax dollars for the time it takes me, my boss, our regional boss, and the travel administrator to fill out, sign, and submit orders.

I've generally shined this on in the past, but am now getting called on it, so am wondering if it's common practice in other agencies.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2008, 03:19:55 PM »
We had to do it, based on a "local area" range ring as determined by the base Accounting & Finance office.

Outside that pre-defined "local area" it was either TDY or even leave, because you couldn't be expected to return to your duty station in a reasonable amount of time if a recall were to happen.

Of course, that didn't mean people payed attention to the rule...  Wink
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charby

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2008, 04:00:08 PM »
If I need to travel I have the secretary call motorpool to reserve me a vehicle fitting of trip and it gets billed back to our department.

I work for a state university.
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Leatherneck

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 12:07:04 AM »
I used to be able to travel from home to Pax River (101 miles one way) and just file a one-page local travel voucher, with no receipt required for the Potomac bridge toll ($3). No more.

Now we have to submit using the on-line Defense Travel System, which has a high error rate, but is quick. Still no orders required unless I want to get paid for the whole 101 miles to/from home for a day trip. If I'm willing to accept 72 miles (equivalent to the Pentagon/Pax trip) I can file without orders.

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Boomhauer

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 07:19:28 AM »
I work for the National Park Service.

If we are going to training or some such official business, we just grab a vehicle and go, gassing up as needed (we have fuel cards in each vehicle, we enter the mileage and vehicle # at the pump).

Or, we can take our own vehicles and be reimbursed at the appropriate rates (28.5 cents per mile if a .gov rig is available, or 48 cpm if not)

I don't dare abuse the system.

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Firethorn

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 07:41:03 AM »
Still no orders required unless I want to get paid for the whole 101 miles to/from home for a day trip. If I'm willing to accept 72 miles (equivalent to the Pentagon/Pax trip) I can file without orders.

TC

How are you able to game/scam the system to get 72 personal travel miles for free when you go home for "day trips" when you aren't actually going to the Pentagon or Pax River?  Better not get caught.  What's your command?  Why not game/scam a farther trip so you can steal those extra 29 miles?  rolleyes

I think what he was refering to is that if he goes on a trip from home station to Pax river(for whatever reason), he used to be able to obtain compensation without having to fill out orders.  Now, if he wants full compensation he needs orders.  Problem - that's such a pain in the butt that claiming only 72 miles is less work, even though he gets less money.

It'd be like having a $80 taxi trip, but you lost the receipt, so you only claim the maximum 'receiptless' allowed amount - $50 because the lost receipt form is such a pain.

mtnbkr

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 07:44:51 AM »
Exactly.  I've had to do similar things when I lost receipts during private sector travel.  Certain expenses are allowed without proof, on the honor system.  Sometimes it's easier to take the loss between the receiptless expense and the one filed with receipt. 

Tone it down dtemplar.

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mtnbkr

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2008, 07:53:00 AM »
I didn't read it that way because he specifically said going home for a "day trip" and not that he was combining it with business he might have at Pax/Pentagon.  I'm sure the taxpayers love this practice.  rolleyes

How do you know what he means by "home".  Might be home station, might be his house, might be anything.  He might even work from home and those trips to Pax or the Pentagon are billable travel. 

Chris

mtnbkr

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2008, 07:59:04 AM »
Whose business of yours is it for him to clarify anything?

Chris

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2008, 08:06:59 AM »
The problem is you're "calling out" someone who you wouldn't be "calling out" if you were to spend enough time here to get to know the members.   The idea of Leatherneck "scamming the system" or being dumb enough to discuss it in open forums is laughable.

You should spend more time reading and less time posting considering you just joined us today.

Chris

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 08:38:40 AM »
When I was going to school I worked for a security company. One of my jobs was as a patrol officer. They made us turn in toll receipts for reimbursement. Back then I think all the tolls were 15 or 20 cents. I would have to wait in line for 3-5 minutes to get a receipt.

I pointed out to my boss on several occasions that it was costing them almost $1 for me to pay the 15 cent toll due to the wait. They did not care. Was corporate policy. I suggested they get a change jar for the squad and pay tolls out of it. No - also against corporate policy.

They did have an unreceipted expense reimbursement form though. You had to fill it out and get it notarized.
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Firethorn

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 09:01:55 AM »
I didn't read it that way because he specifically said going home for a "day trip" and not that he was combining it with business he might have at Pax/Pentagon.  I'm sure the taxpayers love this practice.  rolleyes

They should, they're getting 101 mile trip out of him for the cost of a 76 mile one.  He wasn't claiming all his mileage, because the extra milage trips extra reporting requirements that aren't worth the extra $10 or so he'd get if he got orders.  Or my lost receipt.

Still, last time I was looking at taking some leave while TDY.  I was going to Keesler for training.  I wanted to fly to Orlando after that to visit family, since flying from Keesler to Orlando is much cheaper than flying from Minot.  Then take a plane home.  DESPITE this working out as cheaper for them(I was going to pay for the keesler-Orlando flight), Nope, they'd only pay to fly me to/from Keesler.  Talk about pain in the butt.

On the statment, I saw it as 'to/from home', IE a round trip.  A 'daytrip' in the sense that he's not overnighting.  All reimbursements require supervisor's signature at the least, and are subject to audits.  Needing orders means a bunch of hassle, planning, endorsements, etc... 

In my case, it'd be like taking an hour to fill out orders for a trip to Bismark or Grand Forks - you can almost drive there faster than you can get orders done.

Sawdust

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2008, 09:16:40 AM »
Dammit, is it June already?

I hate when school lets-out for the summer and the children have nothing to do.

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Firethorn

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2008, 09:46:36 AM »
So, according to you, I guess a shop keeper should be "happy" that a kid only steals 75% of the candy from the jar on the counter instead of all of it, right?  rolleyes

More like you, as a homeowner, has a right to be happy when the .gov undervalues your house for tax purposes by 25%.  Or the store gives you four for the price of 3.

The trips are already authorized, reimbursable expenses.  Due to government rules, travel orders are necessary if he wants to claim the full 101 miles.  If he 'merely' claims 72, he doesn't need orders.  He considers the $10 or so he loses in reimbursable mileage as worth the reduced paperwork/hassle.

For the purpose of the voucher, Pax river is 31 miles closer than it really is.

charby

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 09:49:59 AM »
Dammit, is it June already?

I hate when school lets-out for the summer and the children have nothing to do.

Sawdust

Hi, wanna go shoot marbles or something?  rolleyes

Quit being a jackass.

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mtnbkr

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 09:55:57 AM »
And you know for a fact this "joyride" home was for pleasure and not business?  You know for a fact that "home" means his house and not "home office" or other such location?

Didn't think so...

Chris

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2008, 09:59:29 AM »
Kimber, for a new member of this forum, you seem to jump right in and make waves.

We had a similar issue recently, but I can't seem to remember the creaton's name....

We gave him quite a few warnings to cut it out, and he seemed think, and to not get the point.

I trust you are a little smarter?
One day at a time.

mtnbkr

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2008, 10:07:13 AM »
And I've politely asked for clarification, which has been lacking thereby making it look even more suspicious.

Maybe allow some time considering he may or may not be near an internet connection?  Someone whose work sites include the Pentagon and Pax River might not have open access to the Internet the entire day.

Chris

Leatherneck

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2008, 11:12:30 AM »
Quote
How are you able to game/scam the system to get 72 personal travel miles for free when you go home for "day trips" when you aren't actually going to the Pentagon or Pax River?  Better not get caught.  What's your command?  Why not game/scam a farther trip so you can steal those extra 29 miles?

What manner of deranged thinking allows you to mis-read a post, assume the worst, and call me a thief. I think firethorn answered your childish, argumentative, and ignorant rant pretty well. Sorry I wasn't able but I've been working at the Pentagon since 0630 and just got a chance to see your mess. Where did you come from anyway? Are your defiencies in reading comprehension and logic--not to mention manners--genetic or learned? There is help available.

TC
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Balog

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2008, 11:20:22 AM »
Quote from: Leatherneck
Are your defiencies in reading comprehension and logic--not to mention manners--genetic or learned?

 grin grin grin

A burn worthy of Mtnbkr. You officially win this thread Leatherneck.

Oh, and stop feeding the troll guys.
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Firethorn

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2008, 11:34:49 AM »
As in my candy jar analogy, just because it's there does not make stealing it right.  If it ain't for business, then there should be no reimbursement, plain and simple.

From his phrasing, I personally get the hint it ain't for pleasure.  You think that they'd just let him out of work for what'll be effectively the whole day?  101 miles one way = 202 miles, or over 4 hours of travel time.  Figure 4 hours doing whatever at the destination, there's the whole day gone.  Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he spends 8 or more hours there, in addition to the driving time.

Quote
The money not spent at the end of the fiscal year can be rolled over or used on other needed expenses instead of being blown on someone joyriding home on their own personal time.

Obviously you've never studied federal government/military budgeting.  Money NOT spent at the end of the fiscal year = money gone, and often money gone from budget permanently(IE They obviously gave you more than you need, so your budget is reduced from then on).

It also indicates, at best, an unfamiliarity with military terminology and working methods.  You're the only one suggesting that Leather's travel isn't for work.

K Frame

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2008, 11:38:47 AM »
Hey Blackcash,

Answer this question...

Why should you be here at all?
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Leatherneck

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2008, 02:53:17 PM »
You guys are hurting my head. Are we back in Kansas yet? I sent Chris the info he requested via PM. Damn! Was that a tornado, or just a troll?  grin

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wmenorr67

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2008, 08:20:33 PM »
It really sucks when you lose half a conversation due to deleting posts.  Is there anyway to keep said posts even after said offender is gone?
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Gewehr98

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Re: Fed Employees - Travel Order Question
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2008, 08:27:25 PM »
Yes, the option is there.

However, deleting them denies the late BlackCash/DTemplar/Kimberpro the enjoyment of any posting legacy he might have intended prior to getting banned each time. 

You can say we've adopted a scorched-earth policy, as it were.  Wink
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