Author Topic: The Self-Sufficient Room (Read 7491 times)

MicroBalrog · « **on:** March 11, 2011, 08:05:54 PM »

Ladies and gentlemen, we are all familiar with the self-sustainable house. This has been discussed among survivalists for years and has effectively been figured out.

I hereby raise you a challenge:

How would you modify and supply an urban apartment to maximize the period of time a single inhabitant can go on without human contact entirely?

You have:

1. Complete ownership of the apartment.
2. $80,000 in cash to plan any changes needed or supplies. For the purposes of this mental game, assume you have a job that allows you to work from home entirely, enough to pay electric and water bills.
3. ACcess to the room for gardening/other purposes.
4. A full set of tools.

lee n. field · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2011, 09:18:12 PM »

Can you toss household wastes out the window into the street?

230RN · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2011, 09:22:57 PM »

Question 1.

1. Complete ownership of the apartment.

You mean, of course the freedom to install or modify anything you want. But if you "own" it, it must be a condo or townhouse. Of which both are subect to the association limitations.

If it's as you say, why specify that it's an "apartment?" At that point, it must be a free-standing house or you own the duplex or the apartment building or the whole condo/townhouse.

What am I missing here?

3. ACcess to the room for gardening/other purposes.

How about meat?

5. Heating plant?

Maybe I'm missing the thrust of your question.

Are you simply asking, if all needs were supplied, how long could you be a hermit?

If so, for myself, I've been stuck in my own apartment for four days due to crappy weather. I could step out on my balconies, but that was it. Social contact was not much of a problem because other people would also stick their noses out on their balconies, too. And I still had a phone and radio and TV and lotsa toys and projects to play with.

Terry, 230RN

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2011, 09:40:37 PM »

Quote

You mean, of course the freedom to install or modify anything you want. But if you "own" it, it must be a condo or townhouse. Of which both are subect to the association limitations.

I imply the ownership of an apartment in such a way that you do not owe money on it. This would allow you to knock down interior walls, install additional equipment, and so forth, as long as the equipment is not outlandish enough to disrupt the neighbors.

I have not considered the subject of meat. From a purely-dietary standpoint, wouldn't it be possible to store meat in the shape of canned supplies?

Of course, I actually walk out of my appartment once per week to replenish supplies, and perhaps once more to attend some event or museum. But I am an ordinary person, and my appartment is not furnished in any specific way.

I am really trying to figure out stuff for my next sci-fi novel here.

Headless Thompson Gunner · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2011, 09:43:12 PM »

Where can we get water? Rainwater from the roof or off the side of the building? If we can't get water into the apartment somehow, then the exercise is doomed form the start. Given enough energy and humidity, you could possibly condense it out of the air using a dehumidifier.

Ditto for expelling waste. If we can't get trash and sewage out, we won't last very long. You could make like an astronaut and try to reprocess your waste into drinking water, and recycle your trash into something usable, but that sounds impractical and unpleasant to me.

What's the climate? Do we need heat or a/c for this place?

Access to basic utilities solves all these problems. Are we allowed to use them? This would seem to violate the self sufficiency thing, but it allows our single inhabitant to go on without any human contact for as long as he pays his bills.

Any environmental problems like pests or crime or nosy neighbors? Does our single inhabitant have any friends or family that will insist on coming by?

Food is relatively easy to stockpile. Buy a bunch of wheat or rice and learn to cook with it. Stack 50lb sacks up in the corner, you could have quite a long lasting supply.

I wouldn't bother with trying to garden in an apartment. I doubt what you could produce will be anything more than a novelty.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:23:15 PM »

Quote

Access to basic utilities solves all these problems. Are we allowed to use them? This would seem to violate the self sufficiency thing, but it allows our single inhabitant to go on without any human contact for as long as he pays his bills.

Yes. The important thing is not to maintain actual survivalist self-sufficiency but to avoid human contact for as prolonged a period as possible. However, it seems wise to invest in some skills so you could fix as much stuff as possible without inviting repairmen.

THe goal here is not so much to survive SHTF, but to 'survive' civilization.

sanglant · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:33:46 PM »

remember the double doors so you can leave cash for the delivery people and they can leave your packages.

man, i'd love to have that setup. save a fortune on heat and AC.

lee n. field · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:41:58 PM »

Quote

Ditto for expelling waste. If we can't get trash and sewage out, we won't last very long.

Thus my question above. If noone's around, toss it over the balcony. Rig a catapult, and toss it waaaaay over the balcony. If you need to hide, keep a low profile, avoid offending neighbors, that's obviously not an option.

The scenario -- are you needing to stay hidden, or just avoid human contact (as with a plague)?

Some first thoughts:

Power -- solar cells, storage batteries. There should be something relatively off the shelf for this. (Harbor Freight, 45 watt solar panel, $229. "simply connect the solar panels to your own 12 volt DC storage battery...") LED lighting to make best use of power. Netbook for computing needs. If you're not needing to hide out, small windmill generators are an off the shelf item. Pricey for casual use, but well within the given budget.

Food -- look into hydroponics, edible yeast, "square foot gardening".

Water -- perhaps something passive could be rigged to condense water out of humid air. Perhaps. Atmospheric water generator, Air well condenser, "Water from air".

These are going to be competing for available sunlight. Grow more food, have less electricity stored.

What's the weather like in your hypothetical scenario? This is probably a lot more do-able in Tel-Aviv than in Moscow , in December.

lee n. field · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2011, 11:00:50 PM »

Quote

1. Complete ownership of the apartment.
2. $80,000 in cash to plan any changes needed or supplies. For the purposes of this mental game, assume you have a job that allows you to work from home entirely, enough to pay electric and water bills.
3. ACcess to the room for gardening/other purposes.
4. A full set of tools.

Thinking some more. "Enough to pay electric and water", implies that services are still running.

Brute force. For $80K, buy a lot of food. You can keep enough food in an apartment to last for years.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2011, 11:41:45 PM »

Quote

The scenario -- are you needing to stay hidden, or just avoid human contact (as with a plague)?

You're slightly crazy and hate people. This is not a survivalist scenario, this is a creepy insane dude scenario.

Quote

What's the weather like in your hypothetical scenario? This is probably a lot more do-able in Tel-Aviv than in Moscow , in December.

I am thinking the South Pacific, but really anywhere that doesn't have lethal-cold level winters.

KD5NRH · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2011, 01:43:05 AM »

Quote from: MicroBalrog on March 11, 2011, 11:41:45 PM

You're slightly crazy and hate people. This is not a survivalist scenario, this is a creepy insane dude scenario.

In that case, order food, etc. online, prepaid with instructions for the delivery guy to leave it at the door. A garbage chute will handle getting trash out without leaving.

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2011, 09:04:49 AM »

Not sure that an apartment really lends itself to avoiding human contact for long periods of time.

You probably need a place more like this

Seriously:
Garbage chute
Food deliveries
Shop in bulk for anything that can't be delivered so that you minimize the number of trips
Shop at odd hours. Mid morning all the housewives are at the gym and the normal people are at work. Middle of the night shopping (if available) brings out the crazies, so that might make for good entertainment.
office supply stuff delivered.
inflatable girlfriend.

Did I miss anything?

Balog · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2011, 09:23:51 AM »

If you're in a functioning society (implied by services being there, and it being an apt which by definition has at least the possibility of neighbors) just order everything online. Have a washer/dryer and a garbage chute. I don't really get why this would even be an issue requiring special consideration?

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2011, 09:39:06 AM »

I have thought that there would be some special insight I missed, Balog. Thank you for your input, dear APS members. I will proceed to work on this further.

TommyGunn · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2011, 12:26:56 PM »

Quote from: JamisJockey on March 12, 2011, 09:04:49 AM

Not sure that an apartment really lends itself to avoiding human contact for long periods of time.

You probably need a place more like this

....

Now, that's what I call a "fixer-upper."

230RN · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2011, 01:45:13 PM »

This high isolation would attract the attention and curiosity of neighbors for sure.

Expect a "welfare check" within a year by the authorities.

Or less, if you don't even appear at the door to accept deliveries.

Or yet even more less if you're chucking waste around.

You'd need a honkin' garbage disposal unit. And the power to run it. And the water to run through it. And running it will also attract attention.

Two words come to mind. Creepy. Dungeon.

There are lots of little shacks like that^ around here. Mining clamims, "line shacks," etc. Also "ghost towns," where, if you didn't mind tourists poking around, you could find hidey-hole like that.

E.g.:

http://www.fourteenernet.com/history/ghostown.htm

Terry, 230RN

MillCreek · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2011, 01:50:09 PM »

I wonder if Ted Kaczynski asked these same sort of questions.......

lee n. field · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2011, 01:52:22 PM »

Quote from: Balog on March 12, 2011, 09:23:51 AM

If you're in a functioning society (implied by services being there, and it being an apt which by definition has at least the possibility of neighbors) just order everything online. Have a washer/dryer and a garbage chute. I don't really get why this would even be an issue requiring special consideration?

In addition to basic tools, you'd want to keep on hand some plumbing tools, toilet and sink parts.

Also some spare breakers.

MechAg94 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2011, 06:43:52 PM »

Also, I assume you would want books or some other material to keep from dying of boredom.

Tallpine · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2011, 08:06:55 PM »

Quote

You're slightly crazy and hate people. This is not a survivalist scenario, this is a creepy insane dude scenario.

What I did was move to Montana, but why are you writing about me

Actually, I still have to work - so the no contact thing doesn't quite happen.

seeker_two · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2011, 08:58:14 PM »

Do a little research on Howard Hughes' last days....he had a set-up similar to what you're planning....

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2011, 09:41:25 PM »

MB have you started a manifesto yet?

lee n. field · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2011, 11:47:17 PM »

Quote from: seeker_two on March 12, 2011, 08:58:14 PM

Do a little research on Howard Roark's last days....he had a set-up similar to what you're planning....

Something in my mind read it like that. How's that for a bizzarre thought?

230RN · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2011, 01:53:50 AM »

But Howard Hughes had a little looser budget. Like $800 million instead of $80 thousand.

And minions to take out the trash. And his "room" was a suite.

Must've been Jane Russel's brassiere that drove him over the edge.

Quote

I am really trying to figure out stuff for my next sci-fi novel here.

What's the purpose of this plot element? Can your character have a separate Hidey-hole, like the Batcave or Superman's Icy Fortress of Solitude? Can you say, or would that be a "spoiler?"

Terry, 230RN

Vodka7 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2011, 05:27:46 AM »

Right now I live in a row house in Philly, and back in the day I lived in an apartment in NYC.

Rule number 1 if you want to avoid being the subject of gossip is to be Clean & Quiet. Seriously, imagine your neighbors are Mike Irwin and El Tejon and act accordingly.

Rule #2 would be to get on the good side of the doorman. Suck it up and make real conversation with him, learn his name, find out if he has a wife and kids, etc. Give him a decent present on Christmas and his birthday. A bottle of good wine for him and the wife, or maybe tickets for him and his kid to go to a game, who knows. Doormen can make a HUGE difference.

Other than that, I can't imagine the character having to build anything special. I could use Amazon for just about anything I could get in a WalMart, and if you add on Prime, I can get it in 2 days. I can order food from over 100 delivery places on Grubhub.com and pay and tip on my credit card.

News:

Author Topic: The Self-Sufficient Room (Read 7491 times)