Author Topic: George Bush Is a Hero  (Read 2897 times)

Ron

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George Bush Is a Hero
« on: December 27, 2006, 06:19:54 PM »
George Bush Is a Hero

    Edward I. Koch
    Thursday, Dec. 28, 2006

President George W. Bush, vilified by many, supported by some, is a hero to me.

Why do I say that? It's not because I agree with the president's domestic agenda. It's not because I think he's done a perfect job in the White House.

George Bush is a hero to me because he has courage.

The president does what he believes to be in the best interest of the United States. He sticks with his beliefs, no matter how intense the criticism and invective that are directed against him every day.

The enormous defeat President Bush suffered with the loss of both Houses of Congress has not caused him to retreat from his position that the U.S. alone now stands between a radical Islamic takeover of many of the world's governments in the next 30 or more years. If that takeover occurs, we will suffer an enslavement that will threaten our personal freedoms and take much of the world back into the Dark Ages.

Our major ally in this war against the forces of darkness, Great Britain, is still being led by an outstanding prime minister, Tony Blair. However, Blair will soon be set out to pasture, which means Great Britain will leave our side and join France, Germany, Spain, and other countries that foolishly believe they can tame the wolf at the door and convert it into a domestic pet that will live in peace with them.

These dreamers naively believe that if we feed the wolves what they demand, they will go away. But that won't happen.

Appeasement never works. The wolves always come back for more and more, and when we have nothing left to give, they come for us.

Radical Islamists are very much aware that we have shown fear. For example, we have allowed the people of Darfur  dark skinned Africans  to be terrorized, killed, raped, and taken as slaves by the supporters of the Sudanese government, radical Islamists.

The countries surrounding Iraq  Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan  made up of Sunni Arabs, know that for them, the wolves who are the radical Shia are already at their door. The New York Times reported on Dec. 13, 2006, "Saudi Arabia has told the Bush administration that it might provide financial backing to Iraqi Sunnis in any war against Iraq's Shiites if the United States pulls its troops out of Iraq, according to American and Arab diplomats . . .

"The Saudis have argued strenuously against an American pullout from Iraq, citing fears that Iraq's minority Sunni Arab population would be massacred . . . The Bush administration is also working on a way to form a coalition of Sunni Arab nations and a moderate *expletive deleted*it government in Iraq, along with the United States and Europe, to stand against Iran, Syria and the terrorists."

This Saudi response will take place notwithstanding that until now, according to the Times, "The Saudis have been wary of supporting Sunnis in Iraq because their insurgency there has been led by extremists of al-Qaida, who are opposed to the kingdom's monarchy. But if Iraq's sectarian war worsened, the Saudis would line up with Sunni tribal leaders."

The Times article went on to state the opinion of an Arab expert, Nawaf Obaid, who was recently fired by the Saudi foreign minister after Obaid wrote an op ed in The Washington Post asserting that the Saudis were prepared in the event of an American pullout to engage in a "massive intervention to stop Iranian-backed *expletive deleted*it militias from butchering Iraqi Sunnis."

Obaid went on "suggest[ing] that Saudi Arabia could cut world oil prices in half&a move that would be devastating to Iran."

The Times reported, "Arab diplomats . . . said that Mr. Obaid's column reflected the view of the Saudi government." When writing about affairs of state in distant places, unless you are on the scene talking to knowledgeable participants, the most reliable sources to support conjecture with "facts" are the superb reporters of the great international newspapers like The New York Times.

Surely this turn of events in Saudi Arabia undoubtedly replicated in other Sunni-dominated countries  Sunnis are 80 percent of the world's Muslim population. This will give support to my proposal, advanced nearly a year ago, that we tell our allies, regional and NATO, that we are getting out of Iraq unless they come in.

That may well work, and they will come in, in large part and share the casualties of combat and the financial costs of war.

Doing what I suggest is far better than simply pulling out, which is the direction in which we are headed, notwithstanding the president's opposition. I think at the moment simply getting out and not making an attempt to bring our allies in is supported by a majority of Americans and would be supported by a majority of Democrats in the Congress.

For me, staying is clearly preferable, provided we are not alone and are joined by our regional and NATO allies, aggressively taking on the difficult but necessary task of destroying radical Islam and its terrorist agenda if we don't want to see radical Islam destroy the Western world and moderate Arab states over the next generation, or as long as it takes for them to succeed.

Two other requirements are needed to bring the war in Iraq to a successful conclusion: First, require the Iraqi government to allow greater autonomy for the three regions  Kurd, Sunni, and Shia. The second requirement is that the national Iraqi government enact legislation that will divide all oil and natural gas revenues in a way similar to that of our own state of Alaska.

The Alaskan state government takes from those revenues all it will need to finance government and provide services and the balance is divided among the population of Alaska, in a profit sharing program. That would settle the major Sunni problem which has been being cut out of oil revenues because the country's oil is located only in Kurdish and *expletive deleted*it areas.

If the Iraqi government refuses our demands, our reply should be "Goodbye. You're on your own." This proposal was suggested to me by Mike Sheppard in Chapel Hill, N.C.

It won't be easy to implement this proposal. But President Bush has courage.

Now is the time to use it.

Edward I. Koch, author, lawyer, and talk-radio host, was a member of the U.S. Congress and, for 12 years, the 105th mayor of New York City.

Monkeyleg

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2006, 07:48:26 PM »
Unfortunately, Bush wasn't ever able to sell the Iraq war to the American people. The purpose, to me, is plain as day. But it's been so politicized that it can't be sold.

Today's lead story in just about every national newspaper reported that the casualty toll for US soldiers had reached 2978.

The paragraph read: "The U.S. military Tuesday announced the deaths of six more soldiers, pushing the U.S. military death toll since the March 2003 beginning of the Iraq war to at least 2,978, five more than the number killed in the Sept. 11 attacks."

Why put the two numbers into the same paragraph?

For those who don't pay attention to the media, it is to convince people that: a) the Iraq war was all about 9/11; and b) that our efforts aren't worth it.

Let's go back a few decades, and look at the first attack on sovereign US soil. And let's put it in the terms that today's media now frames the issues.

December 7, 1941: a surprise attack at the US Naval base at Pearl Harbor by the Japanese left 2,250 members of the military dead.

June 7, 1942: Following fierce fighting between US and Japanese naval and ground forces on the island of Midway, US commanders have stated that the island is under US control. According to preliminary estimates, the number of US casualties in the battle will likely top 300 personnel.

One Pentagon official, speaking anonymously, gave his summary: "We had 300 die in three days. Give it three weeks, and we'll have more casualties than we suffered at Pearl. I ask you: is it worth it?"





Bogie

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2006, 07:53:06 PM »
Oh, heck... Let's just back out of the middle east. Just up and leave.
 
Anyone care to venture a guess at what would happen?
 
I'm guessing that at first you're gonna have some major genocide and jockeying for power. Then, when Iran finally finishes a nuke or three, there's gonna be a dirty war with Israel. At the same time, the technology will be exported via deniable channels ("terrorists") to Europe and the US, with aims to kill or convert.
 
I'd rather fight it over there. There's a good chance we can get a stable organization in Iraq. Which in turn will help stabilize the region, and also provide a jumping off place to go after Iran if the nutjobs look like they wanna become martyrs...

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Perd Hapley

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2006, 08:23:23 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately, Bush wasn't ever able to sell the Iraq war to the American people. The purpose, to me, is plain as day. But it's been so politicized that it can't be sold.
True.  I fear it is more the fault of an ignorant populace and a contrarian, ignorant media than the failings of one man in the White House. 

First, there's the misunderstanding that having ~3000 civilians killed in a spectacular terrorist attack is no different from having the same number of soldiers die in military operations.  We've come a long way to get that stupid.

Then, a popular argument against the Iraq war is that Iraq or Saddam "didn't have anything to do with 9/11."  As if we should only go after people who were involved in the last attack, and ignore those who have shown an eagerness and ability to contribute to future attacks.  This betrays an ignorance of warfare and self-defense, as well as a very narrow and dull view of foreign affairs.

Additionally, Bush could explain the war in any way he wants to, but the only explanation that matters is what the news media reports and then "refutes."  And when Bush or the media presents more than one reason, it is spun as "Bush is changing his story," rather than there being multiple valid reasons.

And then there is the ignorance of history and politics that robs people of perspective.  If Iraq IS a mistaken war?  It wouldn't America's first foreign policy blunder, and won't be our last.  We've invaded insignificant little countries before - calm down.  If Iraq WAS a pre-emptive war?  Well, I don't think it's our first.  And ~3000 casualties is not bad for this kind of war.  It is painful for family and friends, but that doesn't invalidate a war, that's just the nature of the beast. 

I guess I could go on, but it is late here.
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natedog

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2006, 11:12:26 PM »
He sticks with his beliefs, no matter how intense the criticism and invective that are directed against him every day.


I frequently see this as a complement towards Bush, and I honestly don't see it that way. Sticking to your beliefs no matter what - even when they're wrong (as the author notes)- doesn't show moral fortitude; rather, it shows stubborness and ignorance.

Eleven Mike

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2006, 02:51:36 AM »
natedog, I don't see where the author is saying that.  What am I missing?  So far as I can tell, he is saying that Bush is right and has the courage to be right when everyone says he is wrong. 

Ron

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2006, 03:12:06 AM »
I think it is safe to say that we have more influence now in the middle east than we did pre 9/11.

The establishment media seems to scoff at the idea of a modern state with democratically elected leaders taking root over there.

This is big vision stuff. I wasn't all that keen on the whole thing initially but I think it might be the only way a free state could be formed over there.

And as Bogie says above, you cannot discount the fact that we have made Iraq the battle ground instead of California.

Standing Wolf

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2006, 03:48:29 AM »
Land wars in Asia inevitably include ugly surprises that could easily have been avoided simply by considering the history of land wars in Asia.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Ezekiel

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2006, 05:23:17 AM »
In addition, death is on the line, and there's -- likely -- a Sicilian in there somewhere!

This whole, knee-jerk, Imperialist thing smacks of Iocane Powder, if only it were odorless, tasteless, and dissolved instantly in liquid.

At least idiotic wars are among the more deadly poisons known to man.  That keeps us on Princess Bride Doctrine.  Sad

Land wars in Asia inevitably include ugly surprises that could easily have been avoided simply by considering the history of land wars in Asia.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2006, 05:52:50 AM »
Yeah, let's talk about knee-jerk reactions, Zeke.   rolleyes
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Bogie

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2006, 06:28:18 AM »
Also, we should remember that all wars are bad, and that negotiation is the key. And sanctions. And international rebukes... If things get really bad, make sure they're strongly worded.

Anyone else wanta venture a prognostication at what the area will be like in 10 years if we loaded up the C130s and bailed tomorrow?

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Ezekiel

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2006, 07:39:22 AM »
Whenever you desire, friend.

Bush's "Iraq War" is a poor idea, badly implemented.

We're there because 9/11 allowed Bush a knee-jerk, Congressional, carte blanche to be an Imperialist.

Iraq had no ability to harm the US, and was, at the time, damned sure more stable than now.  (If Middle East stability is the current excuse.  All others have been exhausted.)  So, of course, we've screwed the entire mission, whatever it was.

Iocane Powder was in both the mugs!  Sad

Yeah, let's talk about knee-jerk reactions, Zeke.   rolleyes
Zeke

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2006, 07:44:40 AM »
Anyone else wanta venture a prognostication at what the area will be like in 10 years if we loaded up the C130s and bailed tomorrow?

Probably a Civil War, like there is now.  (Oh, wait: we're not admitting that yet, are we?  Let me check with the government censors...)

Of course, in a foreign Civil War with no American troops present, our military isn't being used as a punching bag between the factions.  And the factions kill each other, not us.

Of course, we wouldn't want that, would we?  Because, then, we couldn't manipulate threat warnings to incite the American public to support an amorpheous war or eradicate personal freedoms due to politically enhanced pseudo-dangers.

9/11 was a bloody nose and we're cutting off our face.  Bush is no hero, he's merely accelerating into the perfect storm...
Zeke

mfree

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2006, 08:20:32 AM »
One should remember that there should be little reward for doing what you were supposed to do in the first place.

That said, and drifting the thread... it took a handful of Arabs and some money to shock the entirety of America and kill 3000 innocent people; what could an entire nation with an oil bankroll come up with once the right man had the right (horrible) idea?

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2006, 09:03:55 AM »
Wars are never popular, even when they're going as well as the war in Iraq is going.  As a leader, you have a choice to make:  You can either acquiesce to the criticisms and demands to end the war, thus granting yourself immense popularity at the expense of the interests of the country.  Or you can suffer the never ending vitriol and remain commted to the war effort, thus ensuring that the country gets the governance it needs at the expense of your own personal interests.

A man with a substandard character (or an average politician) would go for the personal acclaim in a heartbeat.  He'd put his own personal interests ahead o the country.  He'd do what the media and the Democrats have been clamoring for all these years: deliberately lose just to end the war faster.

Thankfully, Bush is one of those rare selfless politicians who's willing to put the interests of the country ahead of his own personal interests.  Do you think men like Kerry or Gore or Clinton or Carter would be willing to endure the political hardships Bush has endured, just to make sure that we don't make the suicidal decision to abandon the war in Iraq?

Bogie

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2006, 09:31:39 AM »
Oh heck... We shoulda just run things like Hussein did... Give a few poor folks' families more money than they ever dreamed of, and then point them at The Great Satan... Oh, wait a minute... That's us...
 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2006, 11:58:42 AM »
Bush's "Iraq War" is a poor idea, badly implemented.

We're there because 9/11 allowed Bush a knee-jerk, Congressional, carte blanche to be an Imperialist.

Iraq had no ability to harm the US, and was, at the time, damned sure more stable than now.  (If Middle East stability is the current excuse.  All others have been exhausted.)  So, of course, we've screwed the entire mission, whatever it was.

Well, you didn't spout all of the popular myths about Iraq, but that's a good start.  You forgot about how it's all so Haliburton can get oil and contracts, and how Bush forgot to give our soldiers body-armor, and how Iraq had no WMD, and no connections with al-Qaeda.  Shoot, there's just too many fictions out there to list. 
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The Rabbi

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2006, 12:17:49 PM »
Bush's history is generally that he listens to very smart people and makes his own decision.  When he goofs he tends to admit it and correct it, like he did with the steel tarrifs.
I wish he would go back and remind people why we are there, that he promised a war that would be long and drawn out but ultimately worth it, and that at the end of the day there is no acceptable choice other than war.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2006, 12:53:34 PM »
Yeah, nobody seems to remember that in the very early days of the war on terror the word from the administration warned that this conflict would be long and painful and dificult.  We all knew and understood that at the time.  But here we are, a mere 4 years or so later, and we've already forgotten it.  Bush needs to get out in front of the country again and lead, like he did back in '01 and '02.

Monkeyleg

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2006, 01:31:42 PM »
HTG, I'm afraid that Bush is in a position where, if he tried to lead, nobody would follow.

The war on terror is a war without end, since we have no identifiable enemy. We only recognize them when they declare jihad on us.

The long-term implications of the Iraq war are huge. It was our failure in Viet Nam that emboldened the Iranians to take US hostages. A failure in Iraq will be like Viet Nam to a factor of ten.

Success in Iraq will be the greatest first step toward pacifying the region. This is real big vision stuff, as Ron said.

3,000 US dead is nothing to be taken lightly. However, taken in its full context, it's a small number. At the Battle of the Bulge, the US suffered 81,000 casualties. In just one battle.

The idea that we may wind up with a politically driven, Nixonian "peace with honor" withdrawal from Iraq is frightening.

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thebaldguy

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2006, 01:46:25 PM »
George Bush is not a hero.

That's all I'm going to say about this.

natedog

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2006, 05:29:34 PM »
Quote
Why do I say that? It's not because I agree with the president's domestic agenda. It's not because I think he's done a perfect job in the White House.

Eleven Mike

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2006, 06:43:33 PM »
Huh?

Bogie

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2006, 07:47:06 PM »
It's really on two fronts...
 
The Jihadists want us to lose. And they don't care which "us" loses.
 
The democrats want the republicans out of office. And they will gladly partner with the Jihadists to make it so.
 
Jihadists win. USA loses.

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Waitone

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Re: George Bush Is a Hero
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2006, 04:45:52 AM »
Bush  reminds me of the conscript who gets in combat and proceeds to repeatedly shoot himself in the foot.  I will not discuss the motives nor merits of the war.  What is astounding to me is how the US has forgotten 60 years of experience in the occupation of formerly belligerent nations.  We successfully occupied Japan and set it on the road to a democratic form of government.  We did the same in Chermany.  Why all of a sudden did we get stupid in Iraq?  Is it because or institutional wisdom stinks of Political Corruption, opps sorry, Correctness?
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