Just did my taxes

[Fitz]

*expletive deleted*ck this country. *expletive deleted*ck it.

Between social security, medicare/fica/whateverthefuck, and state/federal income taxes, i paid like 20k

And these *expletive deleted*ers have the balls to tell me I owe

Meanwhile, I see/hear people bragging about these big refunds they're getting... KNOWING that their withholding wasn't anywhere close to the refund amount. KNOWING that they're taking credits above and beyond what was taken from them.

I got a raise, and I feel poorer than I did before. What. The. *expletive deleted*ck.

[Boomhauer]

*expletive deleted* this country. *expletive deleted* it.

Between social security, medicare/fica/whateverthefuck, and state/federal income taxes, i paid like 20k

And these *expletive deleted* have the balls to tell me I owe

Meanwhile, I see/hear people bragging about these big refunds they're getting... KNOWING that their withholding wasn't anywhere close to the refund amount. KNOWING that they're taking credits above and beyond what was taken from them.

I got a raise, and I feel poorer than I did before. What. The. *expletive deleted*.

Tax time really is the carnival of madness isn't it?

I'm seeing people get back 3-5k in refunds when they worked at pissant jobs (when they worked, they don't show up half the time).

I love looking at my paycheck stub and seeing the $300 per pay period (that's $600 per month) taken out in taxes/social security.  That's money I could buy really good health care insurance and put into a really kick ass retirement system instead of social security.

The right thing would be to go to the fair tax and eliminate the tax BS we have now. I would be making a decent salary then.

[Nick1911]

That's what you get for working hard and achieving anything.

I ran into a similar issue when looking at starting a business to do HVAC work nights/weekends.  It simply wasn't economically viable once all the taxes were added in.  I would actually end up paying more in taxes then I took as profit from my work.  So... why bother?

[Ron]

Now you understand one of the reasons I'm not in the trades anymore.

As a single guy with modest appetites, few bills and no dependents I just didn't see the point in busting my keaster day in and day out. Just to see such a large % go to a government I despise and detest.

In my own small way I shrugged.

Nowadays I probably gross what I used to pay out just in the combined taxes during one of my better years.  

[Boomhauer]

That's what you get for working hard and achieving anything.

I ran into a similar issue when looking at starting a business to do HVAC work nights/weekends.  It simply wasn't economically viable once all the taxes were added in.  I would actually end up paying more in taxes then I took as profit from my work.  So... why bother?

A lot of smaller operations have gone cash only and stopped being "legit" businesses round here for that reason. Can't make any money doing it the right way, so stuff moves to what is essentially the black market because it's the only way to survive.

[Fitz]

Only reason my wife's business didn't get hit hard with taxes is because she's not profitable. I'm scared what will happen if she is.

[Ron]

You a homeowner? Property taxes are still killing me.

Add in all the sales taxes, taxes on utilities, fuel taxes and fee's for driving and a whole host of other stuff. I have to wonder what the actual percentage of a persons wages is net income (after all combined taxes and govm't fees).

[HankB]

As an engineer, I have a pretty good job, and make a decent wage, but I don't consider myself wealthy; my Congresscritter makes more than I do in salary, and don't even get me started on fringe benefits.

Nonetheless, taxes cost me more than food, clothing, housing, and medicine combined. (And if it's a year in which I don't buy a new car, you can add transportation to the mix as well.)

And the <expletive><expletive><long string of expletives> in Washington will use the threat of goons with guns to seize even more of my hard-earned cash to give away to the hordes of subhuman homo parasiticus infesting the urban jungle.

<expletive>

[Boomhauer]

You a homeowner? Property taxes are still killing me.

Property taxes. Don't make me go on an epic rant.

You don't own property. You RENT it. Every year. Fail to pay your taxes? The .gov shows up and siezes it.

Property taxes should be like sales tax, a one time deal upon purchase of the property. You shouldn't have to write a check to the local .gov each year to be allowed to keep your property.

[Fitz]

You a homeowner? Property taxes are still killing me.

Add in all the sales taxes, taxes on utilities, fuel taxes and fee's for driving and a whole host of other stuff. I have to wonder what the actual percentage of a persons wages is net income (after all combined taxes and govm't fees).

Yep, I'm a homeowner.

Buying an inexpensive house and getting a good interest rate screwed me

[AZRedhawk44]

A lot of smaller operations have gone cash only and stopped being "legit" businesses round here for that reason. Can't make any money doing it the right way, so stuff moves to what is essentially the black market because it's the only way to survive.

+eleventy.

Long live the black market.

I've actually found myself reconsidering my stance on illegals.  The more black market non-taxed transactions there are, the weaker leviathan gets.

[Boomhauer]

I've actually found myself reconsidering my stance on illegals.

My major beef with illegals is when they get .gov benefits but not paying anything into the system.

[Ron]

Yep, I'm a homeowner.

Buying an inexpensive house and getting a good interest rate screwed me

Paying more interest or paying more in taxes? Makes no difference, someone is taking their cut of your wages either way.

Property rights are pretty much a fiction in the USA. The state is now large enough to no longer pretend it is our property if they choose.

So far they have chosen to be benevolent and let us keep "our" stuff, just as long as we keep paying them to keep us safe.

[Fitz]

My major beef with illegals is when they get .gov benefits but not paying anything into the system.

I'm starting to become ok with this

Accelerates the eventual failure of the system

[Ron]

There are a few folks I know who are taking from the system right now.

It would have bugged me a few years ago.

Not anymore.

Let the system crash under the weight of the impossible economics.

[Fitz]

Should I be filing separately from my wife??

[cosine]

While I'm not paying anywhere near the amount some of you are paying (yay graduate student income!) the fed.gov is still taking plenty from me, relatively speaking. 

[SADShooter]

My employer kept touting a "Total Compensation Statement" I needed to look at. So foolishly I did.

Salary-OK
Mandatory Retirement match-OK
Employer-Paid Health Insurance-Great!
Vacation/Sick Leave-OK
SS/Medicare/etc. match-WTF?

Seriously? You're telling me that mandatory employer payroll tax payments are a benefit to me? How the hell does that work? This on top of the "refund" I may or may not receive form the thousands I paid?

Grrr. PR FAIL.

[Monkeyleg]

You're telling me that mandatory employer payroll tax payments are a benefit to me?

Do you think employers pay that out of their profits? The cost of an employee includes all benefits (vacation, health insurance, coffee machine, etc), and all taxes. When I talk about how much I've paid into SS over the years, I include the employer portion because I paid that, no matter who wrote the check.

[SADShooter]

Do you think employers pay that out of their profits? The cost of an employee includes all benefits (vacation, health insurance, coffee machine, etc), and all taxes. When I talk about how much I've paid into SS over the years, I include the employer portion because I paid that, no matter who wrote the check.

No. Cost of operation, sure. Call it a "Total Cost of Employment Statement". But it isn't compensation to me.

[drewtam]

I agree with Monkeyleg.

If the employer wasn't paying that tax on income, then salaries & wages would rebalance at a higher level, and product costs would drop slightly to eat up that 6% tax.

In other words, if the gov't wasn't taking it, it would end up as my income and/or lower product cost.

[SADShooter]

I guess I'm hung up on semantics in terms of defining "compensation". I don't see how employer-paid payroll tax is any more compensation to me than the furniture, equipment, utilities or real estate supplied to support me in performing the work, unless you define compliance with the tax code as a benefit. Business costs? Absolutely.

I agree with Monkeyleg.

If the employer wasn't paying that tax on income, then salaries & wages would rebalance at a higher level, and product costs would drop slightly to eat up that 6% tax.

In other words, if the gov't wasn't taking it, it would end up as my income and/or lower product cost.

The government is taking it, and it never passes through my hands. Thus, I see that it's a cost to the business, but not "compensation" to me. Sorry if I seem thick.

Regarding the OP and thread generally: the tax system sucks.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I guess I'm hung up on semantics in terms of defining "compensation". I don't see how employer-paid payroll tax is any more compensation to me than the furniture, equipment, utilities or real estate supplied to support me in performing the work, unless you define compliance with the tax code as a benefit. Business costs? Absolutely.

The government is taking it, and it never passes through my hands. Thus, I see that it's a cost to the business, but not "compensation" to me. Sorry if I seem thick.

Regarding the OP and thread generally: the tax system sucks.

ever paid taxes on your free meal?

[roo_ster]

That's what you get for working hard and achieving anything.

I ran into a similar issue when looking at starting a business to do HVAC work nights/weekends.  It simply wasn't economically viable once all the taxes were added in.  I would actually end up paying more in taxes then I took as profit from my work.  So... why bother?

Sadly, the media will never come to your home and produce a heart-rending story about The Business That Never Was.  OTOH, they will show all the pore & starvin' folks who might get cut off from their gov't aid if the meanie GOP takes control.

As a single guy with modest appetites, few bills and no dependents I just didn't see the point in busting my keaster day in and day out. Just to see such a large % go to a government I despise and detest.

But taxes don't effect how much people work!

A lot of smaller operations have gone cash only and stopped being "legit" businesses round here for that reason. Can't make any money doing it the right way, so stuff moves to what is essentially the black market because it's the only way to survive.

Many years ago, I worked for a guy who started off legit, but slowly started going gray & black market.  He and his English-speaking employees could not compete with all the Good Catholic Boys from south of the border who started coming in.  Eventually, he stopped providing a health plan, then stopped being a "business" while still "making a living" if you catch me.  

A business owner who follows all the rules, pays all the taxes & fees, and pays for insurance can not compete against another guy who messes with none of that and drops his GCBs off at the ER to get fixed up by the taxpayers when they get hurt.  And then slips away to start "business" again under a new name if he busts up more customer property than he can afford to fix (given he had no insurance in the first place).

[Bigjake]

Cash/ trade jobs EVERYWHERE possible.  *expletive deleted*ck em'.


Hell,  If it weren't for SWMBO riding herd on my ass,  I'd be sorely tempted to not file at all and see if they noticed.

April 15th is the primary reason I keep rooting for the system to collapse.