Caterpiller, John Deere, 3M, AK Steel, AT&T...

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Seriously though:

were these costs longterm (20 years) or per year for the forseeable future? I must have missed that part... 

They were reported as either one-time charges, or current year charges, depending on the company.

They are NOT costs allocated over a number of years.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Y'all, please don't get this thread locked over the name-calling thing.  I'd like to be able to udpate the list periodically as new companies announce their own Obama health care burdens.

[Bigjake]

So now we're calling the president a wanker? That's even more of an insult than the other names in this thread.

No, we were splitting hairs over what I said initially    Nevermind though, I'll say no more in the spirit of keeping this thread open.

[Inor]

They were reported as either one-time charges, or current year charges, depending on the company.

They are NOT costs allocated over a number of years.

What will be interesting over the next couple of reporting periods is to see how companies like Microsoft and Google react.  The companies that are making noise right now are the ones that have heavy union contracts which include healthcare.  They do not have a choice about paying it.  But, some of the tech companies which do not have such restrictive contracts may opt to drop their employer paid healthcare and pay the fines rather than get slaughtered (pardon the pun) in earnings season.

[Perd Hapley]

So now we're calling the president a wanker? That's even more of an insult than the other names in this thread.

This being America, we're allowed expected to insult our politicians as a matter of patriotic duty.  It's the nick-names, not the insults, that are looked down upon by the mods. 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

What will be interesting over the next couple of reporting periods is to see how companies like Microsoft and Google react.  The companies that are making noise right now are the ones that have heavy union contracts which include healthcare.  They do not have a choice about paying it.  But, some of the tech companies which do not have such restrictive contracts may opt to drop their employer paid healthcare and pay the fines rather than get slaughtered (pardon the pun) in earnings season.

Yep.  

It will be interesting to see what the business environment looks like after everyone has made (and reported) their accounting corrections necessitated by Obamacare.  I wonder just how much this new law is going to cost.  And I wonder how much damage it will do to the traditional employer/employee relationship.  Time will tell, unfortunately.

It's one thing to campaign on a set of pie-in-the-sky promises, it's another thing entirely to be confronted by real world realities.  I'm not sure how well Obama will handle the latter.  

[mtnbkr]

I'm not sure how well Obama will handle the latter.

I don't know a single person who is in favor of the bill who would give a damn about the damage to businesses.  

Chris

[Boomhauer]

I don't know a single person who is in favor of the bill who would give a damn about the damage to businesses.   

Chris

Yep. I talked to a supporter of this bill who was totally unconcerned that this bill means the end of my family's 40+ year old business, a business that has been built by the toiling of my grandfather and father.

We were some of the best in what we did in the whole country. And we weren't making huge profits, either.

[RoadKingLarry]

I don't know a single person who is in favor of the bill who would give a damn about the damage to businesses.  

Chris

Of course they care about how it will affect private business. The damage it will do to the private sector is the icing on the cake.

[Scout26]

"Well as long as it doesn't affect jobs......."

 

[RevDisk]

Yep. I talked to a supporter of this bill who was totally unconcerned that this bill means the end of my family's 40+ year old business, a business that has been built by the toiling of my grandfather and father.

We were some of the best in what we did in the whole country. And we weren't making huge profits, either.

Here is what one said:

"I'm having a hard time finding sympathy for thieves. I get a little tired of worrying about the jobs and the fiscal condition of Insurance and Drug companies who spent several decades raping folks of their hard earned money, not because it was necessary, but because they *could*.

As far as I'm concerned... Those greedy bastards had their stint on the gravy train. I hope they invested wisely....

There are still a lot of problems with the bill... mainly in that it won't go into effect soon enough to save more lives... but it's more hope than I've had in a long time."

"Greedy bastards on the gravy train" would be folks like your family.  Yes, that is exactly how they see folks that own businesses.  No exaggeration.  Any business (except their company/industry, sometimes) makes a profit by evil means.  Not through providing services folks obviously wish to purchase.

[Inor]

Any business (except their company/industry, sometimes) makes a profit by evil means.

One thing I have noticed about libs...  They view business as a zero-sum game.  To a lib, if I buy a widget from Avenger for $1000, he gets $1000 and I lose $1000. 

To a businessman, or really any conservative, I buy a widget from Avenger for $1000, he gets $1000.  But usually the value of that widget is much more than $1000 to me because I will take the widget and go out make $1500 profit using it.

To a lib the whole transaction is worth $1000.  To Avenger and I, it is a $2500 transaction.  Near as I can tell, libs are just really miserable people that cannot see opportunity beyond their own noses and they punish us because we can.

[makattak]

Here is what one said:

"I'm having a hard time finding sympathy for thieves. I get a little tired of worrying about the jobs and the fiscal condition of Insurance and Drug companies who spent several decades raping folks of their hard earned money, not because it was necessary, but because they *could*.

As far as I'm concerned... Those greedy bastards had their stint on the gravy train. I hope they invested wisely....

There are still a lot of problems with the bill... mainly in that it won't go into effect soon enough to save more lives... but it's more hope than I've had in a long time."

"Greedy bastards on the gravy train" would be folks like your family.  Yes, that is exactly how they see folks that own businesses.  No exaggeration.  Any business (except their company/industry, sometimes) makes a profit by evil means.  Not through providing services folks obviously wish to purchase.

Sometimes I really wish we could give these people the society they say they want.

Then I remember I would have to live in that hellhole, too and it makes me rethink that.

[Monkeyleg]

They seem to think that companies have giant wells of money from which they can draw at any time to pay for whatever they want. They view the companies as greedy because they don't realize that companies have to price products competitively in order to survive.

These are the libs who are ignorant of how business works. What I don't understand are the wealthy liberals who own companies. How can one be a capitalist entrepeneur and a liberal? The two would seem to be mutually exclusive.

[roo_ster]

So now we're calling the president a wanker? That's even more of an insult than the other names in this thread.

Obamacare, PBcare, whatever you wanna call it it one of the more impressive value-destroying vehicles seen in decades. 

These companies are reducing their earnings forecasts.  They are reducing dividends.

Here is a Q&D look at the destruction:

As Andy noted earlier, companies are obliged by law to factor liabilities into their earnings statements. A reader writes to note one example:

3M Corporation announced that it was taking a 12 cent per share charge to earnings for the effects of the health care bill. The costs here are really of two varieties. First, is the hard costs that shows up on company’s income statement and is reflected in the reduced earnings per share. The second cost is the effect of the reduced earnings per share on the company’s market value. 3M sells for about 18 times its earnings per share which means that a 12 cent charge reduces the stock price by about $2.16. Multiply that by 711 million shares outstanding and you get a reduction in the market value of the company of about $1.5 billion.

That's one business. It would be interesting to know just how much value last Sunday's vote instantly vaporized at, say, the S&P 500 companies. We will soon enough.   

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

They seem to think that companies have giant wells of money from which they can draw at any time to pay for whatever they want.  They view the companies as greedy because they don't realize that companies have to price products competitively in order to survive.

These are the libs who are ignorant of how business works. What I don't understand are the wealthy liberals who own companies. How can one be a capitalist entrepeneur and a liberal? The two would seem to be mutually exclusive.

It's especially prevalent among unions.  The only reason management doesn't pay the workers more is because management is greedy and selfish and exploitative.

[longeyes]

One thing I have noticed about libs...  They view business as a zero-sum game.  To a lib, if I buy a widget from Avenger for $1000, he gets $1000 and I lose $1000. 

To a businessman, or really any conservative, I buy a widget from Avenger for $1000, he gets $1000.  But usually the value of that widget is much more than $1000 to me because I will take the widget and go out make $1500 profit using it.

To a lib the whole transaction is worth $1000.  To Avenger and I, it is a $2500 transaction.  Near as I can tell, libs are just really miserable people that cannot see opportunity beyond their own noses and they punish us because we can.

Just one more reason why, and others here are saying esentially the same thing, that there are two Americas forever divided by economic perspective and understanding who will never be reconciled except with major unhappiness to one or both.  When views become that disparate, the answer is divorce, not counseling.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Just one more reason why, and others here are saying esentially the same thing, that there are two Americas forever divided by economic perspective and understanding who will never be reconciled except with major unhappiness to one or both.  When views become that disparate, the answer is divorce, not counseling.

The only thing necessary to get reconciliation on this point is a little bit of economics education.

I had a flaming lifelong blue-collar union factory worker see the light not to long ago.  All it took for him was a chance to see what it's like to try to run a business.  He wasn't dumb, he'd just never been exposed to anything except the worker side of the worker/owner relationship, and all of his business and economics thought was one-sided.

[longeyes]

Apparently Mr Waxman isn't thrilled with these dour revelations by major companies, wants to bring the CEOs to Capitol Hill for a come-to-jesus tv moment.

[alex_trebek]

The only thing necessary to get reconciliation on this point is a little bit of economics education.

I had a flaming lifelong blue-collar union factory worker see the light not to long ago.  All it took for him was a chance to see what it's like to try to run a business.  He wasn't dumb, he'd just never been exposed to anything except the worker side of the worker/owner relationship, and all of his business and economics thought was one-sided.

I think you just the nail on the head. It seems to me that in years past to get through HS one had to take economics.

In this course called economics, once upon a time, they taught the basics of how businesses operate. They might have even applied this on an individual level so people would know if theycould really afford a house or not.

To top it all off, they made the course require more than a pulse for a passing grade.

Consider the government courses in HS as well. The teacher of mine talked about sex, cage dancing, and flipping off the FBI at Vietnam protests. I had the read for myself about how government works. If that changed people might realize that there exist a general correlation between gov spending/regs in an industry and the cost of that industry's products.
 

As long as ignorance prevails through laziness and lax policies regarding education, we shouldn't be surprised when it infects all levels of society.

[RevDisk]

Apparently Mr Waxman isn't thrilled with these dour revelations by major companies, wants to bring the CEOs to Capitol Hill for a come-to-jesus tv moment.

Waxman:  I've just received word. There's been a battle.  Your corporation is burning at the NY stock exchange. The invasion of US economy has been successful.

CEO stares at him.

CEO: ...don't... believe you...

Waxman(shrugs, unconcerned):  There is no further need for information from you... our astroturf troops were successful in spite of your refusal to help me.

Waxman(small smile): You might have saved yourself a great deal of torment by yielding at the beginning.

CEO: I... want to see... neutral representative...

Waxman:  There is no such person.

Waxman:  The word will be that you perished with your accounting department. No one will ever know that you are here with us. As you will be, for a long, long time.

Waxman: You do, however, have a choice. You can live out your life in misery... held here, subject to my whims...

Waxman:  Or you can live in comfort, with good food and warm clothing... women as you desire them... allowed to pursue your studies of philosophy and history. I would enjoy debating with you. You have a keen mind.

Waxman:  It's up to you. A life of ease... of reflection and intellectual challenge...  Or this.

CEO: What... must I... do... ?

Waxman:  Nothing, really.  Tell me how many lights you see.

Waxman:  How many? How many lights?

Waxman:  This is your last chance... the guards are coming... don't be a stubborn fool...

Waxman (hissing):  How many?

The door opens and Pelosi ENTERS, accompanied by two guards.  She surveys the scene.

Pelosi: You told me he would be ready to go.

Waxman:  We had some unfinished business.

Pelosi: Get him cleaned up. A taxi is waiting to take him back to Wall Street.

ON CEO as he stares at Waxman, realizing that everything Waxman had said was a ruse... one last desperate effort to bend CEO to his will before the November Election.

CEO: There are four lights!

[PTK]

That fits so well, too... 

[alex_trebek]

Ahh APS the place where thread drift, individualism, guns, politics, and random star trek references collide.

If it were a tangible place I would never leave.

[PTK]

Ahh APS the place where thread drift, individualism, guns, politics, and random star trek references collide.

If it were a tangible place I would never leave.

Correct for $1,000.  Aren't you supposed to be the host, though? 

[alex_trebek]

It gets lonely on the sidelines......