Store brand oils and filters

[zahc]

I have a 99 Corolla with about 150,000mi on it. I bought it for $500, and use it to deliver pizza in, running at least 500 miles a week. Being cheap/poor and lazy, I immediately extended my oil changes to 5-6000 miles, so I wasn't doing it every month.

I recently read an article that claimed that all motor oils are practically equivalent as long as they meet the API specs, and so you might as well buy the cheapest you can find. Last time I was at Autozone I found out that if I use store brand oil and filters, I can change my oil for half the price of using, say, Castrol and Fram filters. And I'm wondering if the name-brand stuff is really so better than the store-brand stuff that it's better than cheap oil changed twice as often.

[charby]

I like Wix filters, Napa store brand are Wix if I recall correctly.

You have a car with a lot of miles on it, don't skimp a few bucks here and there.

Fram are crap compared to Wix filters. Spend the $1-3 more on a decent filter.

-C

[Sindawe]

I recently read an article that claimed that all motor oils are practically equivalent as long as they meet the API specs, and so you might as well buy the cheapest you can find.

Well, to some thats the equivalent of saying that all guns are pretty much the same so long as they go BANG and bit of flying metal come out the end.

For the rest of us, there is http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ with a wealth of information about oil, filters and all sorts of interesting lubrication knowledge.  The forums there are THR of the oil, 'cept w/o L&P.

Last time I read up on the topic, Wix filters were though very highly of.

[ilbob]

I do not believe there is any substantial difference in the lubricant qualities of the various brands of regular oil.

I think there might be some difference in filter quality, but whether or not that is a significant thing, I cannot really say.

My personal inclination is that it might be wise to replace the filters on a three month. 3000 mile basis, even if you let the oiul change interval slide out some.

[Declaration Day]

I use the cheap stuff- oil and filters- in all of my vehicles.  I don't change oil according to miles or months.  With the engine cold, I pull out the dipstick.  If the oil is opaque enough to obscure the markings on the dipstick, I change it.  In my work truck, that's sometimes once a month, depending on the season.  Snowplowing is hard on oil.

Been doing that ever since I started driving, and I've never had any oil-related problems.

[bedlamite]

Fram Filters are crap compared to everything else on the market. Take a look here for a glimpse inside a number of filters. I use AC Delco filters on cars/trucks, or Purolator Premium Plus on my SV1000S.

Changed regularly, any Group II will do the job except I do switch to PAO based Mobil 1 in the winter because of it's much wider temperature range. I would also use Mobil 1 for an air cooled or turbo engine for the same reason. Thanks to the Castrol/Mobil lawsuit most "synthetics" in the last 7-8 years are actually Group III mineral based oil, as noted here.

I shouldn't have to mention this but I will anyway. Avoid all additives. The best of them do nothing, the worst can wear out your engine prematurely.

Last but not least, most of the people on the Bobistheoilguy.com forums need to get a grip on reality.

[Nick1911]

What I want to know is where you got a 99 Toyota with 150k miles for $500... 

[richyoung]

(Here we go again....)

Question:  when does 80% to 95% of engine wear occur?
Answer: - At STARTUP - when the oil, no matter what kind, is NOT on the parts, its asleep in the sump.  That first 30 seconds while there is no oil on the parts and no pressure, is when almost all of the wear happens.

This places most of the wear BEYOND our ability to influence - baring installation of a pre-oiler, a hydraulic accumulator with solenoid, or some other system to pressurize the lubrication system before cranking hte engine.


So long as the filter is good - PurOlater or Wix - and the oil isn't used beyond its ability to keep dirt in suspension and resist gelling (what you, me and the rest of the wrold calls "sludge formation") - I don;t see where you are huritng anyting, especially in a $500 beater.

As for changing the oil when its opaque - the oil has detergent in it to keep contaminants in suspension - an oil can be blackly opaque, and still quite capabale of performing its job.  Anti-acid, anti-foam, and other additives depleat over time, however - one of the BEST things you can do is keep your oil "topped up" even if it is only 1/4 quart low - this recharges the additives, as there are more of them inthe iol when new than absolutely "neeeded".

[mtnbkr]

In my cars, I use Mobile1 Synthetic and Purolator filters.  I change the oil every 5k miles.  I did this with a Toyota Paseo that I bought with 75k miles and sold with 200k miles.  I've been doing this with a 4Runner purchased with 60k miles.  It now has 135k miles.  I also follow the same pattern with my Camry.  I bought it at 72k miles, it now has 92k miles.  I use a 7500m interval with the Camry because the manual says to use that in all but the most severe duty scenarios such as towing, lots of short trips in cold weather, and lots of driving on dirt roads. 

If I bought a car with 150k miles, I'd just use regular dino oil, but still use a good filter. 

I also keep my sump topped off, even if it's less than half a quart low.

Chris

[mfree]

"This places most of the wear BEYOND our ability to influence - baring installation of a pre-oiler, a hydraulic accumulator with solenoid, or some other system to pressurize the lubrication system before cranking hte engine."

That could be as simple as installing a $10 mechanical oil gauge and a little switch to a relay that disables the computer power... then crank till oil pressure shows, stop, flip the switch, fire it up.

I know that much cranking seems anathema but it seems to me that moving metal to get oil pressure would cause less wear than moving metal under running conditions to get oil pressure.

[Waitone]

Three major manufacturers of oil filters is Fram, Prurolator, and Wix.  Virtually every other brand is manufactured by these three.  Oil has to meet certain specifications to be sold for automobile use.

Go cheap and frequent.  The single best thing you can do to extend the life of an engine is to keep filters and fluids clean.  Frequent oil changes is the name of the game.

[richyoung]

The PROBLEM is if you change TOO FREQUENTLY, you are not only wasting money AND a resource, but causing an unnecessary waste problem.  Yes, you can say - "I run synthetic and change it every 5000 miles and never had a problem", but consider this: you could also change the oil EVERY TIME YOU DRIVE, and likely never have an oil related failure - (other than worn-out threads on the drain plug...).  The trick is to drive it as far as possible without damaging the engine.  This distance is a lot farther with modern oils, filters, fuels, bearings, and metals than it used to be.  Big fleets do oil analysis: that may be a bit much for ordinary folks.  Unless you are running a diesel, a turbo, (both) or an air colled angine, (or an engine known to have "gelling" issues), 5000 mile oil changes are probably a waste of money.

[Bogie]

I run mobil 1 in my vehicles with 5-7K changes, and keep it topped off. Thus far haven't had ANY problems...
 
The 1996 4 cyl Mitsubishi Mirage has about 120K of mostly highway miles (15+ commute on an interstate to work), and apart from the interior starting to die, is doing okay. I just had the timing belt and water pump done, and I'm hoping to get another 10 years and 120K out of it.
 
The 1995 3/4 ton Chevy van was bought used with 44K on the clock... It's up to about 95K, and running fine. I'm thinking the engine may outlive the body. It gets changed on about 3K intervals, since it's primarily a tow vehicle.

I guess part of it is peace of mind - I could run regular dino oil and change every 3K, but as long as I'm running the mobil 1, I don't really worry about stretching to 6ish... Cost/mile is about the same, with half the time invested. Works for me.
 
Now, what I'd LIKE to do is install another cooler and filter on the van... The needle starts to creep up a little on really hot days, or towing up long hills. Never has overheated, or really even gotten uncomfortably near the red, but hey...

And what I'd like to see manufacturers offer is an electronic pre-start oil pump. You get in, flip a switch, wait five seconds for pressure to come up, and crank away...
 

[mfree]

"And what I'd like to see manufacturers offer is an electronic pre-start oil pump. You get in, flip a switch, wait five seconds for pressure to come up, and crank away..."

Hrmm. Ford 302 V8, DIS conversion, overrun clutch and an electric motor where the distributor used to be....

[Gewehr98]

My Audi 200 Turbo Quattro was hard on its oil.  I installed a vacuum-assisted oil accumulator and deeper sump to save wear and tear, especially in the turbo bearings as they spooled down when shutting the car off.  As soon as the car pulled vacuum, it filled this big coffee can-looking thing with oil and held it there by vacuum against the backside of a spring-loaded piston. Once the engine was shut off, the accumulator would feed oil into the turbocharger oil line as the impeller and bearings spun down, keeping it cool and lubricated. 

It wouldn't be hard to do something similar with an electric solenoid keeping the vacuum on the backside of the accumulator until one released it, thereby pressure oiling whichever part of the engine they wanted to prior to (or immediately upon) starting the engine.

Funny topic, really.  I have antifreeze in my oil as of last week's -17 degree cold snap.  The pink GM antifreeze as filled by the Chevy dealership last year in Florida is not the same mix as what goes into the Northern Tier vehicles, evidently.  Suffice it to say, I'm now committed to the local Chevy dealership to install a replacement engine in my truck next week, because the old one cracked internally, dumping coolant into the oil system.  So my 2001 Chevy will be staying with me a good bit longer, I just bought a 27K mile dual-fuel engine and it'll be a hair over $2K for the engine and installation.  Ouch! 

[grislyatoms]

My Grandad always told me to stay away from Pennzoil. Not sure if he really had a good reason, or whether it was just personal bias. I've heard rumors about Pennzoil gunking engines up.

Anyway, I use the Valvoline quick change service around the corner. I would do it myself but disposing of old oil costs as much as just paying to get it changed.

[zahc]

What I want to know is where you got a 99 Toyota with 150k miles for $500

From a preacher that was departing for south america to do missionary work.

an oil can be blackly opaque, and still quite capabale of performing its job

My dad had a semi with a Detroit Diesel series 60 engine, that turned the oil completely black within a couple miles. He ran it over a million miles, and sold it in good running shape. That's just the way they ran, I guess.

[Mannlicher]

zahc, I agree 100%.  Change often, and use the cheapest you can find.

[French G.]

Additive packages and impurity control make a huge difference in oil. New vehicle? Mobil 1 for life. Old ford Pick-up with glorified tractor motor and plent of blow-by? Rotella T 15W-40. Chevron Delo is also very good conventional oil. I have seen a combination of Quaker State and Suck 50 carbon up a motor to the point it would lose oil pressure even at idle. The entire inside of the engine was hard carbon. It still lives and it runs Rotella T 15W-40 only now. It was not I who damaged this motor, it was the same previous owner who for some reason thought plugging the vent line on the transfer case was a good idea. I really want to beat that guy to death with  a greasy driveshaft. 

[richyoung]

...I've seen the same thing with just Quaker State, or just Havoline - don't know why...