Not Our Kind of People: Pro-Ilegal Alien Republicanism

[roo_ster]

Not Our Kind of People
[Mark Krikorian]

According to a congressman's wife who attended a Republican women's luncheon yesterday, Karl Rove explained the rationale behind the president's amnesty/open-borders proposal this way: "I don't want my 17-year-old son to have to pick tomatoes or make beds in Las Vegas."

There should be no need to explain why this is an obscene statement coming from a leader in the party that promotes the virtues of hard work, thrift, and sobriety, a party whose demi-god actually split fence rails as a young man, a party where "respectable Republican cloth coat" once actually meant something. But it does seem to be necessary to explain.

Rove's comment illustrates how the Bush-McCain-Giuliani-Hagel-Martinez-Brownback-Huckabee approach to immigration strikes at the very heart of self-government. It is precisely Rove's son (and my own, and those of the rest of us in the educated elite) who should work picking tomatoes or making beds, or washing restaurant dishes, or mowing lawns, especially when they're young, to help them develop some of the personal and civic virtues needed for self-government. It's not that I want my kids to make careers of picking tomatoes; Mexican farmworkers don't want that either. But we must inculcate in our children, especially those likely to go on to high-paying occupations, that there is no such thing as work that is beneath them.

As Tocqueville wrote: "In the United States professions are more or less laborious, more or less profitable; but they are never either high or low: every honest calling is honorable." The farther we move from that notion, the closer we come to the idea that the lawyer is somehow better than the parking-lot attendant, undercutting the very foundation of republican government.

This is why the president's "willing worker/willing employer" immigration extravaganza is morally wrong  it's not just that it will cost taxpayers untold billions, or that it will beggar our own blue-collar workers, or that it will compromise security, or that it will further dissolve our sovereignty. It would do all that, of course, but most importantly it would change the very nature of our society for the worse, creating whole occupations deemed to be unfit for respectable Americans, for which little brown people have to be imported from abroad. In other words, mass immigration, even now, is moving us toward an unequal, master-servant society.

To borrow from Lincoln, our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. When it comes to this, I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty  to Saudi Arabia, for instance.

02/09 11:40 AM

How 'bout a little Tocqueville to help us understand the difference:

Chapter XVIII: Future Condition Of Three Races--Part IV

But this truth was most satisfactorily demonstrated when civilization
reached the banks of the Ohio. The stream which the Indians had
distinguished by the name of Ohio, or Beautiful River, waters one of
the most magnificent valleys that has ever been made the abode of man.
Undulating lands extend upon both shores of the Ohio, whose soil affords
inexhaustible treasures to the laborer; on either bank the air is
wholesome and the climate mild, and each of them forms the extreme
frontier of a vast State: That which follows the numerous windings of
the Ohio upon the left is called Kentucky, that upon the right bears
the name of the river. These two States only differ in a single respect;
Kentucky has admitted slavery, but the State of Ohio has prohibited the
existence of slaves within its borders. *h

[Footnote h: Not only is slavery prohibited in Ohio, but no free negroes
are allowed to enter the territory of that State, or to hold property in
it. See the Statutes of Ohio.]

Thus the traveller who floats down the current of the Ohio to the spot
where that river falls into the Mississippi, may be said to sail between
liberty and servitude; and a transient inspection of the surrounding
objects will convince him as to which of the two is most favorable to
mankind. Upon the left bank of the stream the population is rare; from
time to time one descries a troop of slaves loitering in the half-desert
fields; the primaeval forest recurs at every turn; society seems to be
asleep, man to be idle, and nature alone offers a scene of activity and
of life. From the right bank, on the contrary, a confused hum is heard
which proclaims the presence of industry; the fields are covered with
abundant harvests, the elegance of the dwellings announces the taste and
activity of the laborer, and man appears to be in the enjoyment of that
wealth and contentment which is the reward of labor. *i

[Footnote i: The activity of Ohio is not confined to individuals, but
the undertakings of the State are surprisingly great; a canal has been
established between Lake Erie and the Ohio, by means of which the valley
of the Mississippi communicates with the river of the North, and the
European commodities which arrive at New York may be forwarded by water
to New Orleans across five hundred leagues of continent.]

The State of Kentucky was founded in 1775, the State of Ohio only twelve
years later; but twelve years are more in America than half a century in
Europe, and, at the present day, the population of Ohio exceeds that
of Kentucky by two hundred and fifty thousand souls. *j These opposite
consequences of slavery and freedom may readily be understood, and they
suffice to explain many of the differences which we remark between the
civilization of antiquity and that of our own time.

[Footnote j: The exact numbers given by the census of 1830 were:
Kentucky, 688,-844; Ohio, 937,679. [In 1890 the population of Ohio was
3,672,316, that of Kentucky, 1,858,635.]]

Upon the left bank of the Ohio labor is confounded with the idea of
slavery, upon the right bank it is identified with that of prosperity
and improvement; on the one side it is degraded, on the other it is
honored; on the former territory no white laborers can be found, for
they would be afraid of assimilating themselves to the negroes; on the
latter no one is idle, for the white population extends its activity and
its intelligence to every kind of employment. Thus the men whose task
it is to cultivate the rich soil of Kentucky are ignorant and lukewarm;
whilst those who are active and enlightened either do nothing or pass
over into the State of Ohio, where they may work without dishonor.

Code:

The Project Gutenberg EBook of Democracy In America, Volume 1 (of 2), by
Alexis de Toqueville

This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with
almost no restrictions whatsoever.  You may copy it, give it away or
re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included
with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org


Title: Democracy In America, Volume 1 (of 2)

Author: Alexis de Toqueville

Translator: Henry Reeve

[Perd Hapley]

Heaven forbid teenagers should pick tomatos or make beds.  We'd rather see grown-up illegals support their families on those kinds of wages.   

[HankB]

Hey, the heck with teenagers, without illegal aliens I'd have to mow my own grass, I'd have to wash my own car, I'd have to cook my own food and do my own dishes, I'd have to clean my own bathroom, I'd have to do a lot of the unpleasant, lowly things that I'm already doing and . . .

Blink.

 . . . that I'm already doing?

Never mind.

 

[gunsmith]

illegals are getting 17 an hour tax free to pick wine grapes in Napa Valley, CA.
If local teens try to get hired they get attacked by the illegals, even hispanics who are born here would be beaten up as well, I worked with a Mexican American (he had no accent & didn't speak Spanish)
he was threatened too.

[MechAg94]

So they have formed an informal labor union as well are trying to enforce a closed shop.

Pipe fitters, insulators, and all the other skilled labor in chemical plants in Texas don't make much more than $17 an hour.  Lots of the laborers make less.  I think Dow still has a starting pay around $18 an hour for operators.  They aren't one of the higher paying outfits.

[CAnnoneer]

The ruling clique fancy themselves a sort of aristocracy.  They feel they cannot be lords without having peons. American-borns and legal immigrants owe them nothing and would not practice STFU. Ergo, you need to import peons that will "know their place".

[Manedwolf]

The ruling clique fancy themselves a sort of aristocracy.  They feel they cannot be lords without having peons. American-borns and legal immigrants owe them nothing and would not practice STFU. Ergo, you need to import peons that will "know their place".

I think you nailed it.

The question is, how, precisely, can we remind them that they work for US, and not the other way around?

I'd still like to do away with all the Republicrats and Demicans and start over with representatives who can speak like Daniel Webster and reason like Thomas Jefferson...

[Perd Hapley]

ManedWolf, it's at least one hundred years too late for that.     I'm still hoping, though. 

[CAnnoneer]

You two clearly refuse to practice STFU. Tz, tz, tz... Perhaps it is time for you to be replaced with Fernando and Manuel - after all they are willing to do what you are not willing to! 

[The Rabbi]

So they have formed an informal labor union as well are trying to enforce a closed shop.

Pipe fitters, insulators, and all the other skilled labor in chemical plants in Texas don't make much more than $17 an hour.  Lots of the laborers make less.  I think Dow still has a starting pay around $18 an hour for operators.  They aren't one of the higher paying outfits.

What point are you making?  People here make $20/hr cash to pick tobacco.  They can have it.

[roo_ster]

Gaffe of the Year
Plus--Radar's blind spot.
By Mickey Kaus
Updated Monday, Feb. 12, 2007, at 7:14 AM ET

Gaffe of the year? Karl Rove defends "comprehensive immigration reform":

   

I dont want my 17-year-old son to have to pick tomatoes or make beds in Las Vegas.

Has Rove accidentally ripped the mask off the vicious social inegalitarianism of Bush's immigration plan, as Mark Krikorian argues, or does a more benign interpretation of his comments save him? It's not like he hasn't said this sort of thing before, apparently. Indeed, his June, 2006 version makes the probable context of last week's remark quite clear--and Rove's not simply "saying that every parent wants their child to have a high-skilled, high-wage job," as the White House's damage control suggests. Here's the 2006 pitch:

   

Now frankly," Rove said during a riff on the temporary worker part of President Bush's immigration reform plan, "I don't want my kid digging ditches. I don't want my kid slinging tar. But I know somebody's got to do it. And we ought to have a system that allows people who want to come here to work to do jobs for which Americans are not lining up.

OK, let's concede there are some unpleasant, unskilled jobs that need doing. How to get them done? 1) One solution is to raise the pay until enough Americans--including teens and college-age kids--and legal immigrants are willing to take the jobs. If the wage gets so high that machines can do the job more efficiently, then unskilled workers will gradually be replaced by robots. (Maybe Rove could tolerate having his son run a computerized robotic tomato picker.) 2) We could in effect draft Americans to do these lousy jobs. It would be a duty of citizenship, like serving on juries. I have a vague memory of Michael Walzer suggesting something along these lines in Spheres of Justice; 3) A third solution would be to import foreigners to work the lousy jobs, but offer them a deal in which, if they work for x number of years, they could gain equal citizenship. This would be a sort of modern, socialized version of indentured servitude.

The most socially inegalitarian solution, of course, is Bush's Solution #4) Import foreign workers who do these second-class jobs as second-class non-citizens. ...

Ah, but wouldn't Bush be happy to settle for #3--a temporary worker program with a path to citizenship? He might. And that's the proposed solution of many Democrats. If I was sure a McCain-Kennedy-Bush program could actually achieve #3, I might support it too. What I fear, of course--what I expect--is that what seems to be #3 will instead become #5: A huge new wave of illegal immigration, drawn by the reward of Bush's semi-amnesty, that overwhelms the fancy new employer and border enforcement mechanisms and temporary-guest-worker safety valves Bush talks about. Lousy jobs will continue to be done by foreigners who have no "path to citizenship" and no legal authorization--it's just that there will be many, many more of them and they will be more poorly paid.

Would Rove care if a 'guest worker program with a path to citizenship' (#3) breaks down, Iraq-style, into a 'new wave of illegals' (#5)--as the 1986 reform did? We now have a clue! That's the significance of Rove's gaffe, I think: Whether or not Bush's guest worker plan is amended to include eventual citizenship, Rove's already revealed himself as a social inegalitarian at heart who doesn't much care. He's fine with #4. Likewise, Rove's unlikely to object much--at least on egalitarian grounds--if we wind up with 20 or 40 million more illegal immigrants slinging tar and making beds. Hey, at least no American's children will have to do the work.

This is not the man you want comprehensively reforming immigration. Dividing work into skilled jobs fit for Americans and unskilled jobs unfit for Americans is certainly one logical reaction to the increasing returns to smarts and skills in our economy. But, as Krikorian notes, it's a reaction that would alter America's essential self-conception. Democrats complain about the inegalitarian effect of various Republican tax cuts, but that's a minor and superficial inequality compared to formalizing the snobbery of the skilled. ... [via Sullivan and Rising Hegemon] 1:43 A.M. link

[MechAg94]

So they have formed an informal labor union as well are trying to enforce a closed shop.

Pipe fitters, insulators, and all the other skilled labor in chemical plants in Texas don't make much more than $17 an hour.  Lots of the laborers make less.  I think Dow still has a starting pay around $18 an hour for operators.  They aren't one of the higher paying outfits.

What point are you making?  People here make $20/hr cash to pick tobacco.  They can have it.

Really just that $17 is pretty darned good money in many parts of the country.  My home town in Texas is an agriculture/retirement community.  Most people with decent wages commute an hour or more.  $17 an hour would have farmers and others lining up.  No need for immigrants.  I bet my cousin doesn't make that.  I know the police don't.  I can only assume it would be the location, the migratory part of it, and maybe other negatives that would keep people away.

[The Rabbi]

OK, but its obviously just enough to get people to pick crops in that part of the country.
There;s a town here where the nicest house in town is probably $85,000.  But you got to live there first.

[atek3]

I think the solution to illlegal immigration is to great a system whereby non-criminal people willing to wave citizenship and welfare should be free to come in. 

I'm going to grad school, 85 of my classmates are here on student visas.  They're all brilliant people who would add a lot to the welfare of the US, however, the majority of them will be sent back to their country of origin because of arbitrary and stupid caps on the number of H1-B visas. 

An immigration policy that turns away hardworking brilliant people is not a policy, it's institutional insanity...

[CAnnoneer]

An immigration policy that turns away hardworking brilliant people is not a policy, it's institutional insanity...

Agreed, especially when we greet illegal unskilled labor and their innumerable dependents with open arms.

But, we cannot complain it does not make sense. After all, brilliant educated legal immigrants might kick the arse of the privileged lazy scions, while ignorant peons that don't habla inglez cannot, can they?

[drewtam]

I think the solution to illlegal immigration is to great a system whereby non-criminal people willing to wave citizenship and welfare should be free to come in. 

I'm going to grad school, 85 of my classmates are here on student visas.  They're all brilliant people who would add a lot to the welfare of the US, however, the majority of them will be sent back to their country of origin because of arbitrary and stupid caps on the number of H1-B visas. 

An immigration policy that turns away hardworking brilliant people is not a policy, it's institutional insanity...

Similiarly, we could enforce immigration laws but dramatically raise the caps.

[Glock Glockler]

Quote from: atek3
An immigration policy that turns away hardworking brilliant people is not a policy, it's institutional insanity...


Agreed, especially when we greet illegal unskilled labor and their innumerable dependents with open arms.

But, we cannot complain it does not make sense. After all, brilliant educated legal immigrants might kick the arse of the privileged lazy scions, while ignorant peons that don't habla inglez cannot, can they?

Isn't it interesting that intelligent and productive people who would have no problem supporting themselves cannot get in due to restrictions but we will bend over backwards to accomidate people who are unskilled, cannot speak the language, and are the most likely to be govt dependants?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I think the solution to illlegal immigration is to great a system whereby non-criminal people willing to wave citizenship and welfare should be free to come in. 

I'm going to grad school, 85 of my classmates are here on student visas.  They're all brilliant people who would add a lot to the welfare of the US, however, the majority of them will be sent back to their country of origin because of arbitrary and stupid caps on the number of H1-B visas. 

An immigration policy that turns away hardworking brilliant people is not a policy, it's institutional insanity...

Agreed.  This is exactly the sort of common sense we rarely see in the immigration debate.  We need more voices like yours in this discussion, and less of the xenophobic reactionaries.

Isn't it interesting that intelligent and productive people who would have no problem supporting themselves cannot get in due to restrictions but we will bend over backwards to accomidate people who are unskilled, cannot speak the language, and are the most likely to be govt dependants?

I'm beginning to doubt that it's a coincidence.  The recent thread about Brit households being dependent upon the state for their income got me thinking.  It's obviously a scam over there, where the gov't takes the peoples money and then trades it back to them for their votes in the election.  "We won't lower your taxes, but if you vote for us we'll give you more of that tax money back as welfare benifits."  I think it's a deliberate scheme to prop up the politgoons and ensure that they get to keep their cushy jobs and lifestyles.  This immigration issue sounds exactly the same way, like a plan to make the population dependent upon the gov't.  Everywhere you turn, the government is going out of its way to make people dependent upon government.  From Katrina to welfare to immigration to Federal highway money, it's all about making people dependent upon the Fed.  This is not a good thing...

[Perd Hapley]

  We need more voices like yours in this discussion, and less of the xenophobic reactionaries.

Other than Michael Savage, to whom would you be referring? 

[Glock Glockler]

HTG,

I've long thought the same thing: I remember reading an article a while back by Walter Williams about how markets will eventually lift even the poor people out of poverty, and while I thought he was correct to a certain extent I also thought that 1) poverty is somewhat based on perception, and 2) if we run out of poor people to vote for govt handouts we'll just import them. 

You needn't look past govt schools to see how they're not interested in churning out independently thinking and self-sufficient people, they just want more fodder to vote for the machine. My problem with this line of thinking is that eventually they will kill the goose by doing so: a country full of stupid dependants will collapse, so can the elites really be this stupid?  It looks that they are.