Wolf Tries Pug Bowling

[Cosmoline]

A neighborhood wolf in Juneau tries his hand (well, mouth) at the sport of pug bowling

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/020807/loc_20070208018.shtml

Romeo takes the Pug..



He shoots, HE SCORES!

[Stand_watie]

Terrible for wolves and people both.

They need to get that critter's genes out of the pool now. If killing the animal or moving it to a zoo isn't politically feasible, they at least should sterilize it and give it it's doggie shots.

[Gewehr98]

Yup.

We should just kill all the wolves that have contact with humans.

I read the story surrounding this particular wolf, and it stinks on ice.

Fish & Game killed off all of his pack, save for one female and him.

Later on, a cab driver struck and killed the female, which was pregnant with 4 pups - she was probably Romeo's mate.

So now Romeo has been spotted fraternizing with dogs.  Go figure.

Turns out this photo was staged for the newspaper, the photographer knew the wolf was lonely and released his pug to go interact out the wolf, leash laws notwithstanding.   Romeo toyed with it, just like he's done with several other dogs, and the pug owner managed to get off the photos with the expensive new camera he bought for the occasion. 

Better kill him, quickly.  Lord knows he wouldn't last to the spring thaw and find another wolfpack to fraternize with.

Reminds me of the mountain lion attack on the jogger in Kalifornia.  Developers create neighborhoods in wilderness areas, and folks get all wrapped around the axle when somebody bumps into the wildlife that resided there before urban sprawl.  The solution?  Eliminate the wildlife to prevent any further encroachments on the human population. Global warming or not, we humans are piss-poor stewards of the flora and fauna in our environment. 

(Yeah, I spent a lot of time as a young adult assisting a Wisconsin DNR facility to rehab wildlife and re-release it to the wild, can you tell?)

[Cosmoline]

Keep in mind this is in the mendenhall area north of Juneau, which is notorious for its concentration of outsiders who want to live in something resembling the suburbs they're used to.  Where I lived up in Willow, this wolf would have been Mr. Pelt in about five seconds.  Mind, the Willowbillies would eat the pug as well    Juneau seems to have more problems than we do up here. 

[Perd Hapley]

Is it OK to enjoy seeing a rat-dog get wolf-handled?  I hate those little, yapping mutants.

[Stand_watie]

Yup.

We should just kill all the wolves that have contact with humans...

....(Yeah, I spent a lot of time as a young adult assisting a Wisconsin DNR facility to rehab wildlife and re-release it to the wild, can you tell?)

Or, as I said get their genes out of the pool.

I'm not familiar with Wisconsin's DNR program, but if they're "rehabbing" wolves in a fashion that teaches them not to avoid people, they're doing wolves a disservice. .

[Manedwolf]

Yup.

We should just kill all the wolves that have contact with humans...

....(Yeah, I spent a lot of time as a young adult assisting a Wisconsin DNR facility to rehab wildlife and re-release it to the wild, can you tell?)

Or, as I said get their genes out of the pool.

I'm not familiar with Wisconsin's DNR program, but if they're "rehabbing" wolves in a fashion that teaches them not to avoid people, they're doing wolves a disservice. .

That's jumping to conclusions, there. Most rehab programs I've seen don't teach them that at all, in fact, the staff are instructed to yell and bang on fences to scare them (once they've recovered from medical treatment) and give them the idea that people aren't something to like being around.

Wolves that can't be released because they ARE acclimated to people or are too "tame" end up in zoos or wildlife parks, AFAIK.

[Stand_watie]

..

That's jumping to conclusions, there. Most rehab programs I've seen don't teach them that at all, in fact, the staff are instructed to yell and bang on fences to scare them (once they've recovered from medical treatment) and give them the idea that people aren't something to like being around.

Wolves that can't be released because they ARE acclimated to people or are too "tame" end up in zoos or wildlife parks, AFAIK.

Wolves acclimated enough to people to require banging and shouting already are too tame.

[Gewehr98]

Now who's jumping to conclusions?

The rehab programs do NOT teach the wild animals to trust or search for human contact, far from it.

The idea is to take those animals that were orphaned and/or made pets by people and wean them from human contact, such that they can survive on their own and integrate with their own species in the proper outdoors environment, be they wolf, raccoons, possums, deer, bears, skunks, badgers, otters, squirrels, eagles, hawks, cranes, owls, or whatever.

In my own personal experience, the raccoons and bears are the tough ones to wean off human contact, because they're such good dumpster divers. 

My biggest gripe about the whole Romeo thing in Juneau is the staged photo op with the pug, and that nobody's considered trapping and relocating El Solo Lobo to another wolf pack, preferably away from those who would make him a rug for the fireplace.   

It reminded me way too much about that Kalifornia mountain lion episode, and the folks freaking out when they see a panther in Central Florida in the undeveloped woods right behind the new Publix store. "Save us, our children and dogs are at risk from the big bad wild animal!"  Duh.

[Matthew Carberry]

It was my understanding that most established packs will kill a single outside male of breeding age, not invite it into the fold.  They certainly fight if two packs happen to be in the same boundary areas.

We don't move a lot of wildlife up here, either it just comes back (we had a black bear cover about a thousand miles and cross over 2 mountain ranges and ford 3 major rivers to return to its Anchorage neighborhood and garbage cans) or it is killed by the local wildlife in the area we move it to.

And wolves, like everything else, aren't endangered up here.  One more or less, while sad, is ecologically insignificant.

[Stand_watie]

Now who's jumping to conclusions?

The rehab programs do NOT teach the wild animals to trust or search for human contact, far from it.

The idea is to take those animals that were orphaned and/or made pets by people and wean them from human contact, such that they can survive on their own and integrate with their own species in the proper outdoors environment, be they wolf, raccoons, possums, deer, bears, skunks, badgers, otters, squirrels, eagles, hawks, cranes, owls, or whatever...

Perhaps not deliberately. Re-releasing animals that you have described is teaching them at a specie level whether you accept it or not. Obviously different animals have different needs. Squirrel and raccoons are common and get along pretty well in suburbia, grizzlies, wolves and pumas aren't and don't.

The latter exist only in a tiny fraction of the land available that is suitable for them, and I'd like to see them back on a lot more of it. That isn't going to happen if we allow them to become urbanized.

[Cosmoline]

Squirrel and raccoons are common and get along pretty well in suburbia, grizzlies, wolves and pumas aren't and don't.

The latter exist only in a tiny fraction of the land available that is suitable for them, and I'd like to see them back on a lot more of it. That isn't going to happen if we allow them to become urbanized.

Things are more complex than that.  All the cities up here, including Los Anchorage, have substantial populations of wildlife that migrate in and out.  Brown bear come into town frequently, but are rarely seen.  Most of them figure out that they need to stay in the greenbelts along the creeks and keep clear of people.  Sometimes a two year old will go wilding through town and smash up some windows, but it's not that common.  Black bear are even more common.

Wolves are different, though.  While they stay well clear of people while their packs are intact, once split off they can adapt to humans far too easily.  Like the earliest dogs the ones separated from the pack will become "camp followers" like Romeo there.  That's when you have bites and minor predation.  The solution is pretty simple.  You either shoot the wolves that take to coming into town or you have dogs big enough to kill them for you.  Pugs don't cut it    Unless maybe it was like fifty pugs.  You can also domesticate the wolves, but this leads to its own set of problems.

[gunsmith]

it is different then the mountain lion problem in Cali.
Mt lions are coming to the suburbs because the deer are there.
Mt lions in remote areas tend to stay away from humans.

There are way to many deer in suburban Cali, large antlered rats.
As a motorcyclist whose had way to many close calls I say we need
a suburban hunting season for those large antlered varmints

[Matthew Carberry]

Squirrel and raccoons are common and get along pretty well in suburbia, grizzlies, wolves and pumas aren't and don't.

The latter exist only in a tiny fraction of the land available that is suitable for them, and I'd like to see them back on a lot more of it. That isn't going to happen if we allow them to become urbanized.

Things are more complex than that.  All the cities up here, including Los Anchorage, have substantial populations of wildlife that migrate in and out.  Brown bear come into town frequently, but are rarely seen.  Most of them figure out that they need to stay in the greenbelts along the creeks and keep clear of people.  Sometimes a two year old will go wilding through town and smash up some windows, but it's not that common.  Black bear are even more common.

Wolves are different, though.  While they stay well clear of people while their packs are intact, once split off they can adapt to humans far too easily.  Like the earliest dogs the ones separated from the pack will become "camp followers" like Romeo there.  That's when you have bites and minor predation.  The solution is pretty simple.  You either shoot the wolves that take to coming into town or you have dogs big enough to kill them for you.  Pugs don't cut it    Unless maybe it was like fifty pugs.  You can also domesticate the wolves, but this leads to its own set of problems.

Cos,

Remember, some of those bears and many of the moose are year round residents.  They never go back up the hill.

[Manedwolf]

Squirrel and raccoons are common and get along pretty well in suburbia, grizzlies, wolves and pumas aren't and don't.

The latter exist only in a tiny fraction of the land available that is suitable for them, and I'd like to see them back on a lot more of it. That isn't going to happen if we allow them to become urbanized.

Things are more complex than that.  All the cities up here, including Los Anchorage, have substantial populations of wildlife that migrate in and out.  Brown bear come into town frequently, but are rarely seen.  Most of them figure out that they need to stay in the greenbelts along the creeks and keep clear of people.  Sometimes a two year old will go wilding through town and smash up some windows, but it's not that common.  Black bear are even more common.

Wolves are different, though.  While they stay well clear of people while their packs are intact, once split off they can adapt to humans far too easily.  Like the earliest dogs the ones separated from the pack will become "camp followers" like Romeo there.  That's when you have bites and minor predation.  The solution is pretty simple.  You either shoot the wolves that take to coming into town or you have dogs big enough to kill them for you.  Pugs don't cut it    Unless maybe it was like fifty pugs.  You can also domesticate the wolves, but this leads to its own set of problems.

Or since that really doesn't happen all that often, you tranq them, capture them and put them in wildlife parks and zoos. There's plenty of enclosed "open air" wildlife parks in the Northeast and many other regions where such wolves are placed, where people can then enjoy seeing wolves wandering around and learn a bit about them. Even smaller ones, like one called Charmingfare Farm here, with fenced-in wolves and lynxes and such, take good care of their animals and let people see what a real one looks like. "Domesticating" wolves is asinine, and usually leads to tragedy.

Firearms are a solution, but they don't need to be the only solution. If it hasn't harmed anyone, why kill it instead of letting lots of people see what a wolf looks like, letting kids learn, and letting it have a comfortable life on an enclosed few acres if someone's willing to pay for that?

[Matthew Carberry]

Or you save the time and expense and just shoot them, since there is no lack of more wolves and the process of tranq-ing and transport is not inherently death-free either and at best results in a wild pack creature being reduced to a lone showpiece in a cage (however "natural" looking).  In the wild the most likely fate of a lone male wolf is death in a harder, more brutal way.

[Manedwolf]

Or you save the time and expense and just shoot them, since there is no lack of more wolves and the process of tranq-ing and transport is not inherently death-free either and at best results in a wild pack creature being reduced to a lone showpiece in a cage (however "natural" looking).  In the wild the most likely fate of a lone male wolf is death in a harder, more brutal way.

Well, hell, tell all those firefighters who do things like rescue dogs stuck in holes, or horses stuck in mud. I've seen some climb into a storm drain to rescue trapped wild ducklings. Foolish firefighters! Time and expense! Why do they do it, they should just bring out the 12-gauge and blow away the dog's head, or bring the police snipers and take down the horse? Maybe we should just apply the same procedure to old people, then, too? Saves time and expense, just shoot'em?

There's more to life than "time and expense" as your basic criteria. Especially if volunteers are willing to give their time and money to such efforts. Which they are. Why do you care if you're not paying for it?

(BTW, 3+ acres of woodland, fenced in, with rocks, built caves, an engineered stream and pond is hardly a 'cage')

And there's an odd, pleasant feeling when you HELP an animal in trouble instead of just blowing it away. I think it's called "good for your soul" or something.

[Matthew Carberry]

(BTW, 3+ acres of woodland, fenced in, with rocks, built caves, an engineered stream and pond is hardly a 'cage')

"Iron bars do not a prison make..." but in this case a fence does make a cage.  These are animals that range for miles per day in the wild, 3 or even 10 acres is just the front porch.

As far as the dog or horse go, I would say that could be a waste of time and money too, and I'd hope that if the cost exceeded reasonable levels that the owner would pay the additional expense.  And, they in fact are personal property of individuals, who pay taxes for their protection just like their home or car. Anyway, just because bad decisions are made every day does not justify making more bad decisions.

And "time and expense" are factors when they are tens of thousands of wildlife management dollars that could be better spent protecting the wild animals that are not habituated to humans.  One wolf, who, as a loner, would be consigned to death in the wild, should not be using resources that could be better spent on wolves in the wild with a chance at life.

"If it saves just one life" is no better an argument applied to a wolf than to a person in the grand scheme of things.  Just because wolfs are cool and pretty should not outweigh hard biological science and cost realities.  It cheapens the wolf to personify it so, it's a pathetic "make the people feel good about one animal" solution rather than what is best for the species as a whole.

[wmenorr67]

But it is for the children.

[gunsmith]

I like pugs.
Little dogs are very cool.

[Stand_watie]

Squirrel and raccoons are common and get along pretty well in suburbia, grizzlies, wolves and pumas aren't and don't.

The latter exist only in a tiny fraction of the land available that is suitable for them, and I'd like to see them back on a lot more of it. That isn't going to happen if we allow them to become urbanized.

Things are more complex than that...  Wolves are different, though.  While they stay well clear of people while their packs are intact, once split off they can adapt to humans far too easily.  Like the earliest dogs ... You can also domesticate the wolves, but this leads to its own set of problems..

I'll agree with you about the complexity. I was trying to speak in broad-brush strokes for brevities sake. I think you and I are thinking quite closely alike on the potential problem with wolf/human interaction. I'd say "domestication" is the largest concern I have...that is "domesticated" in the sense that coyotes and feral dogs are domesticated, not in the sense that they are actually safe to leave your children with.

..There's more to life than "time and expense" as your basic criteria. Especially if volunteers are willing to give their time and money to such efforts. Which they are. Why do you care if you're not paying for it?..

I'm perfectly happy with that solution. It removes that wolf from the gene pool just as well as killing it. If you're living in Wisconsin, you're uniquely geographically suited to make a positive difference towards making wolf re-population occur - I'd say that solution is a much better tack towards gaining  the acceptance of farmers/ranchers who are living in what would be the frontier of wolf territory, than the "they were here first, we just have to learn to live with them" stuff that I hear so frequently spouted.

[gunsmith]

Yeah Stand, I agree with you.
I for one am sick of the "they were here first" BS.
Our ancestors got here and quickly killed off the Saber Toothed Tiger, because they were scrambling to get to the top of the food chain.
If Wolves & mt lions invade suburbia I say it's time to reassert
who is on top of the food chain.

[Gewehr98]

That point of view sends chills down my spine, truthfully.

I seriously have to wonder about folks who say, "Fork 'em and all the 'they were here first' stuff". I mean, really, don't they appreciate any wildlife that's not stuffed and displayed in a museum, book, or webpage? Or are zoos the only acceptable place for people to view living wild animals anymore?  For the record, I'm not a bunny nor tree hugger, but in my work with the DNR and volunteer time spent at the Aldo Leopold Reserve near Portage, I learned quite a bit about conservationism, and just how poor a steward of our natural environment, be it flora or fauna, we can be.  That doesn't mean I want Romeo up there in Juneau to be sent to Wisconsin to be my pet puppy dog, but it makes me wonder about how much effort it would take to relocate him, since one of the Alaska Fish & Game troops decided to basically wipe out the rest of his pack. Is he officially labeled a "nuisance" animal at this point?  There are criteria when an animal is just too far gone, too dependent on humans, or has no hope of surviving in the right environment, regardless of rescue efforts.  Has this already been determined to be the case with Romeo?

I'd love to see the timber wolf repopulation efforts here in Wisconsin succeed, just like the wild turkey story, and let's not forget how huge the whitetail deer population has become in the last 10 years or so. My gut feeling is there's plenty of venison in the state to keep the wolf population going, putting the ecosystem back on balance. Heck, the Ho-Chunk Indian Nation has a plan to get the American Bison herd going again, beginning with a certain 16 square mile former Army ammunition plant in Sauk County.  So the wolves might have a fighting chance.

However, I fear they won't, simply because of the farmers and ranchers who'll scream bloody murder about the losses they'll incur to their livestock.  (These are the same folks who have the tiny veal calf pens out next to Highway 19 on -17 degree days, but I won't even get into that)

That's too bad, really. I just got a couple of those IR-triggered deer cams to mount in my 4-acre nest egg of standing oak forest.  When I took my stepson deer hunting there last November, I felt great teaching my SoCal asphalt jungle stepson about the critters and vegetation we witnessed.  He called his grandmother when we got home and rattled off all that he learned, from wintergreen leaves to buck rut scrapes on saplings.  I'd love for him to see a living, breathing Timber Wolf on the property he stands to inherit someday.

 

[Matthew Carberry]

I have seen one, exactly one, wolf in the wild while out skiing, though the tracks I saw indicated 7.  I've heard them several times, fairly close, but didn't see them because they were not habituated to man.  They behaved as wild wolves should, they heard/saw/smelled me coming and made themselves scarce.

That's what wolves in the wild are supposed to do, the minute they get habituated to humans they become a threat and it is hard to break them of the "easy meal" mentality.  Relocation does not work very well for single adult male wolves as they are a threat to any Alpha wolf in a healthy wild pack.  Decent wolf territory up here usually has healthy packs in it.  Without a pack lone wlves are destined to starve in the winter.

In those situations, habituated wolves and no lack of wild ones, killing them is the only humane, practical and sensible answer.

I would love to see wolves reintroduced to their range as well, the only way that will work though is if they learn to fear man and his livestock.  They will need to be even more ghostlike than usual or they will be considered (and will be) threats to easy to kill livestock.  Which they will choose to prey upon rather than harder to catch wild game if not taught there is a downside to messing with man and his animals.

Don't let your love for the individual animals outweigh what is best for the species as a whole.  It is the biggest mistake animal lovers make where wildlife conservation is concerned.

[gunsmith]

Gewehr98.
I would love to be able to camp out and hear wolves, I think they are great creatures.
I just do not think they need to be in Suburbia.
I am not a kill them all type of guy, it's just that every time a mountain lion
gets shot on elementary school property in CA the insane tree huggers screech "they were here first"
and it's not really true or  appropriate
The mt lion population is exploding in suburban CA because the idiots feed the deer and the lions are attracted to the deer as a food choice and the idiots prevent hunting of both deer and lion so their population explodes.
Where before there was one lion hunting over a big area now there are three or four for the same area.
One of my biggest thrills was seeing a mountain lion in it's natural habitat, near Virginia City here in NV
I had my gun with me, but it was obvious it was merely trying to avoid me and was gone real quick.