So, why did Trump win the election?

[De Selby]

I woukd not have guessed he woukd pull as much of the black vote as he did. And I have never understood Asians voting democrat

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

That's because you're thinking race and gender, when this election was all about pay

[Perd Hapley]

I woukd not have guessed he woukd pull as much of the black vote as he did. And I have never understood Asians voting democrat

My wife saw a billboard reading "Missouri Chinese-Americans for Trump."

[De Selby]

"Than they," you uneducated Trump supporter. 

Thou needs learnest thy communication

[HankB]

I woukd not have guessed he woukd pull as much of the black vote as he did. And I have never understood Asians voting democrat

Not all Asians - one of my best friends is a natural born American of Cantonese ancestry, and he's every bit as conservative as I am.

What I really find puzzling is the number of Jews who support civilian disarmament, JPFO notwithstanding.

[DittoHead]

How did Trump win?

I was going to come in here and be smartass - say that he won by getting the most votes...
 

[Ben]

I was going to come in here and be smartass - say that he won by getting the most votes...
 

Yeah, but 200,000 is easily dead people in Chicago and illegal aliens in CA. :)

[HeroHog]

https://youtu.be/V6s7jB6-GoU
This will educate you as to why we have the voting system we have. It is a brilliant system and makes perfect sense, it's just not taught in schools or commonly understood by the ignorant masses who believe we live in a Democracy when we, in fact, live in a Representative Republic!

[DittoHead]

It is a brilliant system and makes perfect sense, it's just not taught in schools or commonly understood by the ignorant masses who believe we live in a Democracy when we, in fact, live in a Representative Republic!

The Representative Republic part - sure that's a good system.  But the Electoral college?  I'm not convinced.

[Perd Hapley]

Not all Asians - one of my best friends is a natural born American of Cantonese ancestry, and he's every bit as conservative as I am.

One of the most anti-Trump guys on APS is Asian-American. 

[HeroHog]

Did you watch and understand the video?

[DittoHead]

Did you watch and understand the video?

Yes. We could elect the president via popular vote and still have 3 branches of government,  elected representatives,  and remain a Representative Republic.

[Perd Hapley]

The 2016 election is the best explanation for why we don't elect presidents through a simple, democratic vote.

[DittoHead]

The 2016 election is the best explanation for why we don't elect presidents through a simple, democratic vote.

I get that people are happy how it worked out this time, doesn't mean it's a good system.  Likewise,  no one seems to care about voter fraud or rigged elections anymore now that it worked out OK.

[Fly320s]

Yes. We could elect the president via popular vote and still have 3 branches of government,  elected representatives,  and remain a Representative Republic.

Because then the candidates would cater to the big population centers to get the most votes and ignore the rest of the country.  Do you really want San Francisco, Chicago, New York, and Miami to have more power than all of the midwestern states?

[DittoHead]

Because then the candidates would cater to the big population centers to get the most votes and ignore the rest of the country.  Do you really want San Francisco, Chicago, New York, and Miami to have more power than all of the midwestern states?

But with the Electoral college they just overpower the rest of the state they are in. It's the same problem it just happens in every state individually instead of nationally.  I don't see how that's any better.

[Perd Hapley]

I get that people are happy how it worked out this time, doesn't mean it's a good system. 

It's slapped down, what, 5 Democratic candidates thus far? Why mess with something that works so well?

Likewise,  no one seems to care about voter fraud or rigged elections anymore now that it worked out OK.

Even Democrats know Republicans can't get away with that.

[Ron]

So, why did Trump win the election?

Because the wily old wizard was able to enchant more Americans than the Lizard Queen was able to deceive.

[MechAg94]

I haven't watched that video but one of the best things about the electoral college is it decentralizes the election process to each of the 50 states and even lower to the congressional district level (for electoral count).  California could have 30 million illegals voting and they only affect the winner of the electors for California.  Any cheating has to be nationwide involving a lot more people, not just one or two states.  In addition, you know damn well that if we just added up vote totals nationally, someone would want to increase efficiency and have every vote totaled to a national election computer that would conveniently crash on election night and come back up with more votes for whoever controlled the computer.  It may not be the original purpose of the electoral college, but it does provide benefits. 

[DittoHead]

Any cheating has to be nationwide involving a lot more people, not just one or two states... It may not be the original purpose of the electoral college, but it does provide benefits. 

This was the only argument I found compelling at all. Cheating in an already blue state doesn't really matter. However in accepting this argument you have to admit that voting at all in an already blue state doesn't really matter. That bothers me - not to mention cheating needs to be dealt with regardless of impact.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Two wolves and a sheep voting for what's for dinner.

Think about it, Dittohead.

[DittoHead]

Two wolves and a sheep voting for what's for dinner.

It's not the electoral college that protects us from that. It's decentralized power, different branches of government with different powers, states rights, elected representatives, the constitution, etc. We can have still have all of that if we directly elected the president. Getting a bare majority of the popular vote is no more prone to tyranny than getting a bare majority of the electoral votes. It's still ONE person being elected by getting the most votes - the only difference is that the electoral college adds a layer of abstraction which results in some peoples votes counting more than others. Even just switching to proportional allocation of electors instead of winner take all would be an improvement.

[BlueStarLizzard]

It's not the electoral college that protects us from that. It's decentralized power, different branches of government with different powers, states rights, elected representatives, the constitution, etc. We can have still have all of that if we directly elected the president. Getting a bare majority of the popular vote is no more prone to tyranny than getting a bare majority of the electoral votes. It's still ONE person being elected by getting the most votes - the only difference is that the electoral college adds a layer of abstraction which results in some peoples votes counting more than others. Even just switching to proportional allocation of electors instead of winner take all would be an improvement.

Wolves = Urban population centers

Sheep = Rural/agricultural areas with smaller populations.

The wolves and the sheep have very different ways of life. Different standards of living, different needs and different values. The urban population centers, even the ones on different coasts are going to have more in common with each other than they will with the rural/agricultural areas and the same with the rural/agricultural areas.

In a popular vote, the urban areas will end up with more representation. That representation will priorities their needs. The urban areas are going to be more likely to vote for the same things and things that the rural/agricultural areas don't want, need or even things they won't tolerate.

And just so you can understand how far back this goes, 10 years before the Civil War, if you asked the average American in what direction the country would split should there be some kind of conflict, the answer would have been East (settled/urban) and West (frontier/rural) not north and south.  

[DittoHead]

In a popular vote, the urban areas will end up with more representation.

What you're talking about works great for congress where we elect a bunch of representatives and they fight over legislation. It gives us representatives of rural areas and urban areas. In the senate it gives smaller states equal footing with larger states. I get that.

For president we're voting on one person. If we used the popular vote, 1 person = 1 vote regardless of where they live, that would make it even. The electoral college makes it uneven by allocating electors to states and then giving ALL of those electors to whoever get's 50.1% in that state. How can you argue that system creates a more even representation than a simple 1:1 voting system

I've read plenty of arguments for the electoral college, but I just don't see it as necessary or even good. I don't think it has the positive effects that proponents claim. I mean, thank goodness for the electoral college - it really made Obama moderate his views to appeal to a broad coalition. And he HAD to reach out to me as a religion & gun clinger in fly-over country to earn every vote It worked to our advantage this time but it can work against us in the future.

[zxcvbob]

The electoral college is good because in case of a tie, it limits the scope of the recounts.  Imagine Florida 2000 on a national scale.    16 years later and they would still be counting chads because you would have to recount every ballot in the USA, and then the recounts would be challenged, and every time you recount you'll come up with a different number because of unavoidable errors.

[Perd Hapley]

I've read plenty of arguments for the electoral college, but I just don't see it as necessary or even good. I don't think it has the positive effects that proponents claim.

What part of Hillary Clinton getting shut out, shut down, and shut up isn't a positive effect?    




But, but, but, it worked out this one time! What about the other times?! As I said; every time it's contradicted the popular vote, it has kept Democrats out of office. It kept Al Gore, et al, out of office. Those are all the positive effects you could possibly need.