Author Topic: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul  (Read 10050 times)

Ben

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Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« on: December 06, 2016, 06:16:29 PM »
Democrats are demanding to know how Obamacare repeal and replace will work.

Is anyone else just dying to have someone on the Republican side say, "We have to pass it so you can find out what's in it"?

http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2016/12/06/excuse-us-senate-dems-seriously-have-no-right-to-lecture-trump-team-about-this/
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2016, 08:13:32 PM »
Me me me


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2016, 09:02:31 PM »
Democrats are demanding to know how Obamacare repeal and replace will work.

Is anyone else just dying to have someone on the Republican side say, "We have to pass it so you can find out what's in it"?

http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2016/12/06/excuse-us-senate-dems-seriously-have-no-right-to-lecture-trump-team-about-this/


Hawkmoon

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2016, 09:05:52 PM »
Is anyone else just dying to have someone on the Republican side say, "We have to pass it so you can find out what's in it"?

My very first thought.
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Ben

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2016, 09:53:43 PM »
The petty side of me wants the republicans to have a list handy of every dumbass, arrogant thing Pelosi, Reid, and Obama have said during the last eight years when anyone dared question them about anything, and throw those same phrases back in the dems faces.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2016, 10:41:00 PM »
The petty side of me wants the republicans to have a list handy of every dumbass, arrogant thing Pelosi, Reid, and Obama have said during the last eight years when anyone dared question them about anything, and throw those same phrases back in the dems faces.

I don't think that would be at all petty.
The GOPe is too nutless to do it though.
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Pb

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2016, 10:52:03 AM »
I am afraid the popular features of obamacare (pre-existing conditions etc) are the things for the unpopular features (high prices, taxes).  You can't take the "good" without the "bad".

The republicans should eliminate every bit of it.  I'm not hopeful though.

One thing the republicans should do is require doctors to charge individuals paying cash for health care the same prices they charge insured people:

http://truecostofhealthcare.net/hospitalization/

Ben

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2016, 10:59:43 AM »
I am afraid the popular features of obamacare (pre-existing conditions etc) are the things for the unpopular features (high prices, taxes).  You can't take the "good" without the "bad".

The republicans should eliminate every bit of it.  I'm not hopeful though.

One thing the republicans should do is require doctors to charge individuals paying cash for health care the same prices they charge insured people:

http://truecostofhealthcare.net/hospitalization/

I was actually quite surprised that both Trump and the Rs are in favor of keeping "on your parent's insurance until you're 26".  I'd be okay with "until 21", but gee whiz, 26?

As for the "but they're still going to college" argument, as I recall, even well before Obamacare, the university I went to had ridiculously cheap (often free) health care available. I'm sure that has only expanded since my time. I'm still in favor of cheap catastrophic care options. That plus what they can get in school for preventative care would cover them.
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Scout26

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2016, 11:11:49 AM »
I was actually quite surprised that both Trump and the Rs are in favor of keeping "on your parent's insurance until you're 26".  I'd be okay with "until 21", but gee whiz, 26?

As for the "but they're still going to college" argument, as I recall, even well before Obamacare, the university I went to had ridiculously cheap (often free) health care available. I'm sure that has only expanded since my time. I'm still in favor of cheap catastrophic care options. That plus what they can get in school for preventative care would cover them.

And people wonder why Onesie Boy is still living in Mom's basement after college...
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DittoHead

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2016, 12:25:57 PM »
You can't take the "good" without the "bad".

The republicans should eliminate every bit of it.  I'm not hopeful though.
Agreed. I don't believe there is an easy solution after repealing though. People are going to be angry when they lose their subsidies and mandated coverage.

I was actually quite surprised that both Trump and the Rs are in favor of keeping "on your parent's insurance until you're 26".  I'd be okay with "until 21", but gee whiz, 26?
Why require dependent coverage at any age? Let the insurance companies offer whatever plan options they want - including no kids for less $$.
the university I went to had ridiculously cheap (often free) health care available. I'm sure that has only expanded since my time.
um.... You  know someone was paying for that right? Either your tuition or the taxpayer.  :mad:

In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

Ben

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2016, 12:40:43 PM »
You  know someone was paying for that right? Either your tuition or the taxpayer.  :mad:

Yeah, no duh. What do I care if they want to cover it via tuition or by the student being employed as a TA or whatever? If it's partially covered by state taxpayers, who cares? That's the state's problem - vote or move.

When it's mandatory via the feds for all insurers everywhere for "kids" in college or in the basement, I have to pay for it whether I have kids or not via increased premiums.
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DittoHead

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 12:52:42 PM »
If it's partially covered by state taxpayers, who cares? That's the state's problem - vote or move.
The taxpayers should care. Their taxes paying for your healthcare - you seriously don't see any problem there as long as it's the state doing it and not the feds?

When it's mandatory via the feds for all insurers everywhere for "kids" in college or in the basement, I have to pay for it whether I have kids or not via increased premiums.
Exactly. So why is 21 ok but 26 not? Get rid of that mandate all together regardless of age or college status.
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2016, 01:18:39 PM »
The taxpayers should care. Their taxes paying for your healthcare - you seriously don't see any problem there as long as it's the state doing it and not the feds?


For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter, since it's pre-Obamacare. (Pre-pre-pre-Obamacare, because Ben is Super-old.)
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Ben

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2016, 01:25:11 PM »
The taxpayers should care. Their taxes paying for your healthcare - you seriously don't see any problem there as long as it's the state doing it and not the feds?

Of course they should, hence "vote or move". CA will always have crap like that. TX, not so much as long as it's their choice. If it's a federal mandate then all states are stuck with it. BTW, taxpayers didn't pay for my healthcare when I was in college. You seem to be assuming that since I mentioned it, that I used it, versus having my own.

Quote
Exactly. So why is 21 ok but 26 not? Get rid of that mandate all together regardless of age or college status.

I said I could live with 21, as that's the maximum age that is considered the transition from childhood to adulthood. Eighteen would be better. Do you really think insurers will deny having any children on a family's plan, ACA or not? Children have always been an option on insurance as minors. The ACA changed that to include adult children.

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Ben

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2016, 01:27:33 PM »

For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter, since it's pre-Obamacare. (Pre-pre-pre-Obamacare, because Ben is Super-old.)
Why you young whippersnapper...!   :laugh:
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MikeB

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 01:33:12 PM »
Per the discussion of children staying on parents insurance up to a certain age. I'm not convinced that was ever really an issue for most people nor that it affected costs that much. I'm sure not all states were the same, but I recall thinking at the time they were extolling that feature of Obamacare; that in PA it was already the law for at least 21, I seem to recall it being 23 or 25. And really what difference does it make if the parent or child or their employers are actually paying the premiums?

DittoHead

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2016, 01:43:20 PM »
BTW, taxpayers didn't pay for my healthcare when I was in college. You seem to be assuming that since I mentioned it, that I used it, versus having my own.
Fair enough. My point was that it's a bad idea, not against your use of it specifically. Wrong pronoun I guess. I still think that just saying "move if you don't like it" is a bit of a cop out - that's applicable to any law and shouldn't provide free license to enact bad policy. A bad idea at the state level is preferable to one at the federal, but it's still bad.

Do you really think insurers will deny having any children on a family's plan, ACA or not? Children have always been an option on insurance as minors.
I'm not an insurance expert so I can't say whether or not they would deny having children on a family plan. However, why not let them decide what to cover based off the market instead of mandating it? If consumer pressure forces them to include children of whatever age in their plans, then they will do so. If not, maybe people can save some money.
In the moral, catatonic stupor America finds itself in today it is only disagreement we seek, and the more virulent that disagreement, the better.

Ben

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 01:58:26 PM »
Fair enough. My point was that it's a bad idea, not against your use of it specifically. Wrong pronoun I guess. I still think that just saying "move if you don't like it" is a bit of a cop out - that's applicable to any law and shouldn't provide free license to enact bad policy. A bad idea at the state level is preferable to one at the federal, but it's still bad.

Well when we're arguing about health services that are included at a public university, then you have to be against the school nurse at the elementary - high school levels. The inexpensive and free services at universities (at least when I went) were for basic things like health screenings, a couple of stitches, diagnosing colds and flues, etc. A local doctor or intern from the hospital might show up a couple days a week on a volunteer basis for more advanced diagnoses. They weren't giving out free appendectomies. They did offer health coverage at a group rate, but then so does Costco.

To be clear, I also said "vote or move" , not just move. If the majority of voters vote contrary to you in a state, then you have to live with it or move. I know - I live in CA.

Quote
I'm not an insurance expert so I can't say whether or not they would deny having children on a family plan. However, why not let them decide what to cover based off the market instead of mandating it? If consumer pressure forces them to include children of whatever age in their plans, then they will do so. If not, maybe people can save some money.

Consumer pressure did force them to have kids on a family plan, for all the years pre-obamacare. As for the mandate, the major point of my original argument is that both Trump and the R's want to keep the mandate in place. I was arguing that if they are going to keep the mandate, the least they could do was make it for children, not 26 year old adults.
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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 04:54:59 PM »
Given the 21 to 26 age groups health, it is not a high cost item like pre existing conditions.  While the randroid in me may rail against it, my inner actuary tells randroid to stfu and look at the higher cost issues.
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Ben

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2016, 04:57:58 PM »
Given the 21 to 26 age groups health, it is not a high cost item like pre existing conditions.  While the randroid in me may rail against it, my inner actuary tells randroid to stfu and look at the higher cost issues.

Trump et. al. are also keeping the pre-existing condition mandate. :)
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Ben

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2016, 05:02:50 PM »
Also, I will concede the point that the cost of the 21-26 year old crowd is probably not that much in the greater scheme, but it still irks me from the perspective of keeping adults as children too long. The person who stays on his parent's insurance until 26 will become the 40 year old manchild that skateboards to work.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2016, 05:17:53 PM »
Trump et. al. are also keeping the pre-existing condition mandate. :)


Isn't that the stupidest part of Obamacare, aside from the insurance-or-else tax/fine?
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DittoHead

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2016, 05:20:40 PM »

Isn't that the stupidest part of Obamacare, aside from the insurance-or-else tax/fine?

I believe it's the most popular.
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MikeB

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2016, 05:33:11 PM »

Isn't that the stupidest part of Obamacare, aside from the insurance-or-else tax/fine?

There were somewhat legitimate issues with the pre-existing condition thing. If someone looses a job, the COBRA payments were outrageous and often unaffordable for someone trying to maintain coverage. Often much more than the company and the employee were paying together every month. And let's be honest not everyone that really that wanted to legitimately get another job could. Something did need to be done about it; the ACA just wasn't the best way to deal with it.

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Re: Dems Want to Know What's in Republican Health Overhaul
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2016, 05:41:31 PM »
There were somewhat legitimate issues with the pre-existing condition thing. If someone looses a job, the COBRA payments were outrageous and often unaffordable for someone trying to maintain coverage. Often much more than the company and the employee were paying together every month. And let's be honest not everyone that really that wanted to legitimately get another job could. Something did need to be done about it; the ACA just wasn't the best way to deal with it.

More to the point, most people that lost a job couldn't walk into anything else with comparable benefits within a few months.  Finding a job is one thing; finding one that pays enough and/or provides good enough coverage to stay at a comparable level is entirely another.  Plus you have a lot of people losing a good salaried job and the only thing they can get that's not hourly retail or food service ends up being 1099 work.