Spanking children can lead to problems later in life

[Perd Hapley]

I am not using euphemisms.  You are the one engaging in word games.  Using the word "hit" is an obvious trick, commonly used to make responsible corporal punishment sound like child abuse. 

Believe me, I found spanking plenty painful.  And plenty embarrassing.  My parents used hands, belts and wooden paddles and such. I don't find "spank" to be an especially soothing term.

Now science says that spanking is bad?  Must have missed that one. 

[Bigjake]

     Waterboarding is more effective and doesn't leave any marks.

lmao, you aint right.


If spanking really did lead to deviant sexual behavior and all that noise, S&M would be totally mainstream.  It's only been the past couple F'd up generations that we're too squeamish to actually discipline kids, and now we're seeing the results.

[roo_ster]

I'm with fistful on this topic.

We use most of the disciplinary tools in th tool box: spanking, time out, & others, as appropriate.

Like many instances in life, it depends on the "totality of the circumstances."

[grislyatoms]

My parents spanked me until I was old enough to be reasoned with.  I did the same with my kids, and so far they've turned out just fine. 

I didn't "hit" them or "beat" them.  One swift, open-handed swat on the ass, when needed, did the trick.  It always came after a fair warning.

They're 11 and 13 now, and when told to stop misbehaving, they stop immediately and reply with a respectful "Yes, dad."

That's where kiddo and I are right now. Usually just a look will get her straightened out, quickly, nowadays.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i think luck does play a role plus kids have their own personalities. i was the wild one was spoiled number 1 son in japanese house first male grandson to carry family name on the irish side. was very willfull got lots of negative attention. called my old man a sob when i was 6. went to the penitentary twice before i was 23 and been arrested just under 60 times.got away witha lot as a kid cause i was always a straight A student till end of highschool.
i caught a lotta beatings and left home at 15 mutual decision when we started hurting each other. and often i was the instigator.
my sis was straight a plus student never gave any trouble got spanked at most once  maybe never yale law school whole bit.

her son is just like me. and my daughter is just like her, thank you jesus!
this makes me think that genetics plays a role. i'm not qualified to say what role.
my sister is a none hitter. my brother in  law showed me the neatest trick though. you rest your hand on back of childs neck pinch the lil hairs at the nape of the neck and twist . hurts doesn't leave a mark  no hitting motion to attract busy bodies in public and no way to accidentally hit too hard. the kids act like kittens when you pick em up by the scruff of the neck. its flawless.
there is a line not to be crossed with corporal puhnishment and i've been on both sides. one needs to be careful. a few years back some drunk kicked his kid in 7-11 so hard it picked the kid up off ground and slammed him against the wall. dad had immediate cause to regret that. i got him but only cause i was closest. there were 2 other guys coming to  kick his butt when i turned around after breaking my hand. i thought for sre there might be legal repercussions but the cops around here have a sense of proportion. and the prosecutor head hunts child mistreatment with a vengance on the edge of obsesive.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

the best example of new age parenting i know of was my other sisters neighbors. both child care pros. one was a middle school vp the other a "good" child shrink. i remember watching them chase the lil heathen around the yard begging him to eat his dinner one holding the plate the other the spoon. and a variety of other new and improved techniques. they were pretty loud and proud about how superior their way was. they got results though.... he was the kid that killed the 6 year old neighbor girl when he was 12  hid her body under his bed. his dad blames the lil girl  it was her fault for coming over.
that said spanking can be a too easy short cut. its my last resort. i think it gets overused by some  cause its so fast and easy. i know the difference between spanking and beating  gotten both

[grislyatoms]

there is a line not to be crossed with corporal puhnishment and i've been on both sides.

So have I. One household it was restrained and was definitely discipline.

The other "household"... it was assault, plain and simple.

[Perd Hapley]

the best example of new age parenting i know of was my other sisters neighbors....they got results though.... he was the kid that killed the 6 year old neighbor girl when he was 12  hid her body under his bed. his dad blames the lil girl  it was her fault for coming over.

Wow.  Really?  What was the girl's name?

[Tallpine]

Seriously, when I was little I was lectured unmercifully, and even at that time I wished for a spanking and just get it over with.  Would have been better for me too, since I'm still dealing with issues  

Not that I was never spanked - I well remember one time when my cousins and I played a very cruel practical joke, and my mom took a belt to me in anger.  That is actually a good experience to recall, as I deserved it and she didn't hold it against me forever.

OTOH - my SIL's kids were never spanked or even verbally corrected.  They were a bunch of little wild animals.  Quite a lot of trouble as teenagers, too - though we stay as far away as possible.

[drewtam]

there is a line not to be crossed with corporal puhnishment and i've been on both sides.

So have I. One household it was restrained and was definitely discipline.

The other "household"... it was assault, plain and simple.

This gets back to the euphemism argument. There is a difference between denotation and connotation. Although hitting and spanking might have the same literal definition. They are vastly different things.
Spanking is a discipline, a training of a foolish mind. It is preceded and followed by loving instruction and guidance.
Hitting is combat, an exertion of power whether for kill or dominance. It is not love, it is self will.

[Perd Hapley]

Does anybody else here get to feeling all murderous-like, when they hear some parent telling their kids things like, "I'm gonna kick your a** when I get home," or "You better quit acting like a little sh**, or I won't buy you anything at all?" 


OK, not really murderous, but you know what I mean.  And as far as buying things for little brats, I don't think I was begging for something every time Mom took me shopping.  Would have been a waste of time, in most cases.  The bills wouldn't have been paid if she gave in, either. 

[BlueStarLizzard]

this is one of those things that there is a line and once the line is crossed things get very bad. i was spanked very occasionally as a child. it was when i did something really stupied and could have seriously injured or killed myself, or hurt another being (my butt was a little red after the whole pouring chocolete syrup on the dogs thing. "but, mom, they said they wanted chocolete!")
unfortunatly i learned the hard way, what would have been better learned with a spanking. i was told repeadatly not to bother bandit, one of our dogs, when she went under the porch. i ended up with five stiches under my eye. an inch higher and i would have lost my right eye.
i hate to say this, but the world is not always puppy dog tales and rainbows. i'm rather thankful that i learned that with a swat to the butt and sitting in the corner for awhile then by visiting the E.R. (at least most of the time)

[Perd Hapley]

This gets back to the euphemism argument. There is a difference between denotation and connotation. Although hitting and spanking might have the same literal definition. They are vastly different things.
Spanking is a discipline, a training of a foolish mind. It is preceded and followed by loving instruction and guidance. 
Hitting is combat, an exertion of power whether for kill or dominance. It is not love, it is self will.

Something like that.  It is precisely because "hitting" has such a broad range of meanings, that Bridgewalker's use of it was intentionally misleading.  "Hitting a kid" usually refers to the sort of thing we would ALL recognize as child abuse. 

[Tuco]

Although hitting and spanking might have the same literal definition. They are vastly different things.
Spanking is a discipline, a training of a foolish mind. It is preceded and followed by loving instruction and guidance.
Hitting is combat, an exertion of power whether for kill or dominance. It is not love, it is self will.

The same thing cassandrasdaddy said. 
Leave the anger out of it.

I find the most effective thing I can do with my kids (6 and 3, not yet sociopaths or teenagers) is to express displeasure with inappropriate actions.  Yes, spanking expresses displeasure.  So can an early bedtime, or other denial of autonomy.

I still think spanking is an acceptable tool, but so is a 1911. 
ANALOGY ALERT!!!
I don't pull out the 1911 when the neighbor's dog poops on my lawn. 
I rarely spank.

Now, I believe verbal abuse can be as (more?) damaging than a well timed and rational swat on the butt.  Have seen sickening public verbal punishments.   

an aside.... My best friend is named Kevin.  My six year old was busting my chops last night calling Kevin my "Sweetheart" and my "CutiePie love bunny". 
I said, IN GOOD HUMOR that's fine, we'll see if your still laughing after the spanking.
She kept it up, and asked if I'd just wait till bedtime and spank her until she fell asleep.

Oh, this thread has caused some introspection over the last day. 
Forgiveness?  Most of the time.
Thank You for the forum.

[Manedwolf]

This gets back to the euphemism argument. There is a difference between denotation and connotation. Although hitting and spanking might have the same literal definition. They are vastly different things.
Spanking is a discipline, a training of a foolish mind. It is preceded and followed by loving instruction and guidance. 
Hitting is combat, an exertion of power whether for kill or dominance. It is not love, it is self will.

Something like that.  It is precisely because "hitting" has such a broad range of meanings, that Bridgewalker's use of it was intentionally misleading.  "Hitting a kid" usually refers to the sort of thing we would ALL recognize as child abuse. 

Hit to the face or another body part that will bruise or cause injury is hitting.

An open-handed swat to the fatty tissue of the buttocks, the body's built-in cushion to sit on, while it might sting, will not cause injury. That is spanking. That is not hitting.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

the best example of new age parenting i know of was my other sisters neighbors....they got results though.... he was the kid that killed the 6 year old neighbor girl when he was 12  hid her body under his bed. his dad blames the lil girl  it was her fault for coming over.

Wow.  Really?  What was the girl's name?

i forget  it was in florida and there was a show on discovery a few weeks ago that had dads recorded interview.show was on kids who kill and dad was still blaming the girl. dad croaked  mom still lived in house across from girls family

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

a couple of brain cells just talked to each other  i think the dead girls name was maddie

it was
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/browse_thread/thread/9976628fbe3651bb
http://maddieclifton.org/07-07-1999d.html