Author Topic: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV  (Read 7016 times)

Nitrogen

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2007, 04:09:36 PM »
Quote
I'm guessing he meant to repeal the glaring tax credit to people who purchase SUV's

I thought that was already repealed. If not, anybody got a link? I just bought a big ass 7500 lb truck a couple of months ago, and if I can get some tax credits for it, I'm waaaay down with that man.

As far as I know Section 179 tax credits were still valid in 2006.  See IRS Publication 946 and see if you can decipher it.  I know the SUV deduction is still there, but upon reading it; it might have been reduced.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2007, 04:12:59 PM »

Why isn't this guy laughed off the stage?  angry


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auschip

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2007, 05:59:24 PM »
I'm guessing he meant to repeal the glaring tax credit to people who purchase SUV's, but I'm not certain.
I'd support that; There's no reason to give tax credits to people who buy wasteful vehicles.

You're supporting what you wish he said instead of what he actually said.

Thus are Democrats elected...




I honestly don't know what he said.
Assuming he DID say to give up your SUV, I'd agree that's a rotten move.

A better plan would be a tax credit based on environmental impact.  For example, get a tax break based on MPG of your car.  If your vehicle gets 25mpg or better, you break even.  If it gets 30mpg, you get a 50% break on your vehicle reg. fee on your federal taxes.  45mpg or better, 100%. 

Any vehicle that gets less than 20mpg pays a percentage of their reg fee to help pay for research into getting our country off of fossil fuels, for instance.

Even better, say that we give up ALL fossil-fuel powered vehicles by 2020, and our dependence of fossil fuels totally by 2030.

I already pay more in taxes for driving a less fuel efficient vehicle.  Gasoline taxes bite close to 40 cents out of every gallon I burn.  On my truck that's a little over $12 every time I fill the tank. 

m1911owner

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2007, 06:14:28 PM »
A better plan would be a tax credit based on environmental impact.  For example, get a tax break based on MPG of your car.  If your vehicle gets 25mpg or better, you break even.  If it gets 30mpg, you get a 50% break on your vehicle reg. fee on your federal taxes.  45mpg or better, 100%. 

Any vehicle that gets less than 20mpg pays a percentage of their reg fee to help pay for research into getting our country off of fossil fuels, for instance.

Even better, say that we give up ALL fossil-fuel powered vehicles by 2020, and our dependence of fossil fuels totally by 2030.

I have an even better idea:  How about the government just leaves us alone to buy whatever vehicle we want?

Boomhauer

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2007, 06:36:19 PM »
Quote
ALL fossil-fuel powered vehicles by 2020

There is no substitute for fossil-fueled internal combustion engines for applications such as aircraft.

Do you know what it does to a car when you try to push for higher and higher gas mileage? Here's a simple list.

1) Sheet metal and structure have to be lightened. This means less durability. In cars made in the last decade, hitting a deer at a relatively low speed causes significant damage. Older cars are far more resistant to damage.

2) Electronics and emissions systems get more and more complex. This means that an average car owner is less and less likely to be able to work on their own vehicle. Granted, that's not a problem for most people, as they take their car to a mechanic anyway, but it is a problem for me, considering the significant money I save by doing everything but tire mounting and balancing at home.
We recently acquired a 2004 GMC Safari. We also have 2 Chevy Astros, one a '90, the other a '92, and an S-10 Blazer (91). The older vehicles each has a single O2 sensor, while the '04 has 3 O2 sensors in an effort to meet emissions and MPG standards. All the added electronics of the newer van does not improve the mileage over the older van. The newer van has problems with its electronics and emissions equipment, too, which drop the gas mileage when the sensors are out, the catalytic converter is having issues, or there are vacuum leaks.

3) Cars get smaller. Less steel= less survivability. I like a big, heavy, steel cage surrounding me in addition to my seat belt and airbags.

But, sayeth the treehuggers, get a hybrid!. Well, hybrids have problems. The battery is going to need replacement after a couple of years (and it ain't cheap!), and there are problems if you have a fire or have a wreck. My father tells me that if you need extracting via jaws-of-life, or some other advice, that the emergency crews will not cut before they are aware of where the high-voltage lines are running.

I don't want to have anything to do with "mileage increasing" or hybrids or (insert your miracle tech here) if the costs comes at having more and more electronics to the point at which I won't be able to even find the engine under all the *expletive deleted*it...

And I'm sure as hell not going to kowtow to a group that thinks that I should give up SUVs and trucks but they can have SUVs and private jets and redwood decks because they know how to have and use them without harming the environment.


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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2007, 06:40:05 PM »
Quote
As far as I know Section 179 tax credits were still valid in 2006.

Quote
That changed on Oct. 22, 2004, when the American Jobs Creation Act became law; now only company vehicles weighing 14,000 or more are eligible for the larger deduction amount.
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/Edit/tips/Stories/sec179_deduction.asp

I thought it went away. This is the one that by weight included big SUVs like Hummer H1s and some Suburbans ,Expeditions, etc., as well as small aircraft like Cessna 172s. It actually never applied to the "run of the mill" SUVs, like Explorers.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2007, 06:50:58 PM »
Quote
I already pay more in taxes for driving a less fuel efficient vehicle.  Gasoline taxes bite close to 40 cents out of every gallon I burn.  On my truck that's a little over $12 every time I fill the tank.

But if everybody drove a hybrid then there be less tax money to build and fix bridges........unless we raised the tax....... rolleyes

Very sneaky.......
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2007, 07:18:47 PM »
A better plan would be a tax credit based on environmental impact.  For example, get a tax break based on MPG of your car.  If your vehicle gets 25mpg or better, you break even.  If it gets 30mpg, you get a 50% break on your vehicle reg. fee on your federal taxes.  45mpg or better, 100%. 

Any vehicle that gets less than 20mpg pays a percentage of their reg fee to help pay for research into getting our country off of fossil fuels, for instance.

Even better, say that we give up ALL fossil-fuel powered vehicles by 2020, and our dependence of fossil fuels totally by 2030.

I have an even better idea:  How about the government just leaves us alone to buy whatever vehicle we want?

Go tell that to the people arguing against gay marriage in the other thread Smiley

Seriously though, while I usually agree with this, I do believe the government needs to step in when someone's actions can be damaging to the country (or world) as a whole.

Fuel inefficient vehicles increase our dependence on middle eastern terrorist nations for our continued existence.
That's bad, and I think the people of this country should do whatever it takes to unhook ourselves from the teat of oil.

26 Percent of the gas you buy started as oil from the middle east, including the country that hit us on 9/11 (Saudi Arabia, not Afganastan or Iraq)  I'd think that Americans would gladly do whatever we could to reduce our dependance on that despicable part of the country, but I guess I'm wrong, because our comfort is more important.

Granted, we're getting oil from other countries, like Venezuela and Russia, whose political situations are almost as bad.
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Boomhauer

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2007, 07:52:01 PM »
Quote
Seriously though, while I usually agree with this, I do believe the government needs to step in when someone's actions can be damaging to the country (or world) as a whole.

Fuel inefficient vehicles increase our dependence on middle eastern terrorist nations for our continued existence.
That's bad, and I think the people of this country should do whatever it takes to unhook ourselves from the teat of oil.

26 Percent of the gas you buy started as oil from the middle east, including the country that hit us on 9/11 (Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan or Iraq)  I'd think that Americans would gladly do whatever we could to reduce our dependence on that despicable part of the country, but I guess I'm wrong, because our comfort is more important.

Granted, we're getting oil from other countries, like Venezuela and Russia, whose political situations are almost as bad.

Gov't screwing us over stepping in causes problems such as environmental regulations that keep oil companies from exploiting the oil within our borders and building new refineries.

The only gov't stepping in I want to see is
a) getting rid of the ridiculous environmental restrictions on building new refineries, oil drilling, and power plants (especially nuclear)
and
b) knocking off oil rich countries for cheap oil
 



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charby

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2007, 07:58:58 PM »
I'd rather be a right wing nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job.

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2007, 08:27:47 PM »
Quote
There is no substitute for fossil-fueled internal combustion engines for applications such as aircraft.

Who told you that?

The Germans ran the Luftwaffe on synthetic fuel towards the end of WWII.

Turbine engines, be they turbojets, turbofans, or turboprops, run just fine on a variety of fuels, including natural gas, vegetable oils and biodiesel.  Hell, they've even run nicely on powdered coal.

Talk to the folks at Edwards AFB, Pratt & Whitney, General Electric, or Rolls-Royce.  They did the footwork already.

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2007, 08:32:07 PM »
Quote
Seriously though, while I usually agree with this, I do believe the government needs to step in when someone's actions can be damaging to the country (or world) as a whole.

Fuel inefficient vehicles increase our dependence on middle eastern terrorist nations for our continued existence.
That's bad, and I think the people of this country should do whatever it takes to unhook ourselves from the teat of oil.

26 Percent of the gas you buy started as oil from the middle east, including the country that hit us on 9/11 (Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan or Iraq)  I'd think that Americans would gladly do whatever we could to reduce our dependence on that despicable part of the country, but I guess I'm wrong, because our comfort is more important.

Granted, we're getting oil from other countries, like Venezuela and Russia, whose political situations are almost as bad.

Gov't screwing us over stepping in causes problems such as environmental regulations that keep oil companies from exploiting the oil within our borders and building new refineries.

The only gov't stepping in I want to see is
a) getting rid of the ridiculous environmental restrictions on building new refineries, oil drilling, and power plants (especially nuclear)
and
b) knocking off oil rich countries for cheap oil


So it's ok by you for a company like Mattel to sell products that can kill your children?  The government shouldn't step in to keep that from happening?

Do you also think it's OK for ExonMobil to build that refinery right next to your home?  Should the government prevent that?

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2007, 06:27:55 AM »
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26 Percent of the gas you buy started as oil from the middle east

I don't think so  laugh

All of mine comes from Montana, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and is processed within 50 miles of where I sit.  There's a crude oil pipeline running up the valley just off the east edge of my property.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2007, 09:16:12 AM »
Is that picture really his house?  I ask because if you look carefully on the left side of the house in front of the garage, there is at least one SUV.  Probably solar powered though, that's why he had to cut down every tree within a hundred meters of the house.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2007, 10:14:51 AM »
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he had to cut down every tree within a hundred meters of the house

That's not a totally bad idea, considering danger from forest fires.

I have a mimimum 50' clearance around my house, and that's on the uphill side - it's a lot more on the other three sides.  Plus a large perimeter of the surrounding forest that I've removed most of the smaller trees and brush, and cut off all the lower limbs up to about 12'.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2007, 02:00:49 PM »
But if everybody drove a hybrid then there be less tax money to build and fix bridges........unless we raised the tax....... rolleyes

Very sneaky.......

Not very sneaky to me; I've called it 'the inefficiency tax' before.

IE it's a very simple environmental tax:  If your vehicle has better than average efficiency are subsidized a bit by those with worse efficiency.

If enough people switch to fuel efficient vehicles, raise the gas taxes a bit to compensate; this will encourage replacement of fuel inefficient vehicles.

No further action necessary.

Thor

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2007, 05:36:08 PM »
What about those that can't necessarily afford to replace their inefficient vehicle?? I'd love nothing better than to have a fuel efficient car to run around in, but between insurance, the cost of a new vehicle and places to garage a vehicle, I'm all tapped out.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2007, 05:25:42 AM »
What about those that can't necessarily afford to replace their inefficient vehicle?? I'd love nothing better than to have a fuel efficient car to run around in, but between insurance, the cost of a new vehicle and places to garage a vehicle, I'm all tapped out.

As Edwards said, there's two Americas. He's in the one where he can get a $400 haircut.

His answer to someone who has a fuel-inefficient car that's wasting their money would be "well, why don't you buy a new one?" Same as the sorts who, if told that people have no money, would ask why they don't just go to an ATM?

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2007, 05:52:24 AM »
Quote
What about those that can't necessarily afford to replace their inefficient vehicle?? I'd love nothing better than to have a fuel efficient car to run around in, but between insurance, the cost of a new vehicle and places to garage a vehicle, I'm all tapped out.

That's where we are at.  For one thing, we need the vehicles that we have now, so it would mean adding another vehicle and associated insurance, license, maintenance, etc not to mention the original cost and/or payments.

We don't drive enough miles in a year to justify a $20K investment - that money will still buy a lot of gas even at $3/gal.

If we had a more "efficient" car then we would probably just start driving more so we would be consuming just as much resources  rolleyes
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charby

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2007, 06:43:28 AM »
What about those that can't necessarily afford to replace their inefficient vehicle?? I'd love nothing better than to have a fuel efficient car to run around in, but between insurance, the cost of a new vehicle and places to garage a vehicle, I'm all tapped out.

I play cards once a month with a bunch of retired guys from where I work and our political views are all different, one guy is very left but he does present a well thought out argument for his beliefs, so he isn't the stereotypical bather mouth liberal.

I asked him if he was going to give up his SUV and he chuckled and said that he didn't have one. He asked about mine, I told him my SUV is a hand me down from my wife when we bought her a car in February. I said I would love to drive a vehicle that got more than 20 mpg and when we bought my wife's car fuel consumption was on the top of the list but for me to go out a buy a more fuel efficient vehicle to replace my SUV would not be economically sound to offset the savings in fuel costs. I said in two years when I am in the market to purchase a vehicle for myself, I will have fuel consumption near the top of the list in what I am looking for.

He commented that Edwards probably should have said, when you are looking for a replacement vehicle try to think about something more fuel efficient than a SUV.

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HankB

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2007, 07:59:48 AM »
A better plan would be a tax credit based on environmental impact.
Be careful what you wish for . . . http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

Some "green" blogs are condemning CNW's research, but AFAIK have yet to publish a credible study rebutting the assertions.

Up in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle?) they're talking about hitting electric & hybrid vehicles with additional taxes . . . because, since they get better fuel economy, they're not paying their fair share of transportation taxes in the form of federal, state, and local levys on gasoline!

Anyway, whenever I see a politician proposing taxes (or carbon credits!!) to fight "global waming" or "CO2 emissions" . . . I'm skeptical of their true motives.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2007, 02:31:17 PM »
I've heard about the additional "Hybrid" taxes, and I have to agree, that it's garbage.

That's just an example of people not thinking through their actions.

I know the endpoint I want to get at:  More people getting the fuel efficient vehicles they want; Better use of existing fossil fuels.  Then,  Eventual elimination of reliance of non-domestically produced energy.

I can understand that the cost of going about this wrongly can erase and even push us backwards economically.  Look at China right now; their lack of environmental regulation will eventually erase their huge GDP gains.  If we're not careful about how we go about this, we can be in the same boat.

But I think it's important to figure out how to do it.

John Edwards has a great point about "giving up the SUV" but he's got to realise it's not as simple as that. (As most of you guys here realize)  I think we can all agree that erasing our dependance on oil sourced from unfriendly governments (Venezuela, the middle east, etc) is a good thing to shoot for.  If we can do it with cars and trucks that get better mileage, good.  If we have to find another way to do it, let's figure that out.
Ethanol is one way, but it's got its problems currently.  Maybe we need to try making fuel out of coal.  (I'd love to learn more about that)

We're America, for crying out loud.  There's no reason we CAN'T do it.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2007, 02:54:18 PM »
Typical arrogant elitist- Don't you know he's better than everyone else?- Nothing much more needs to be said

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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2007, 04:03:13 PM »
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We're America, for crying out loud.  There's no reason we CAN'T do it.

There is no money in it for the "right" people.
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Re: John Edwards Says Give Up Your SUV
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2007, 04:34:01 PM »
We've got one Prius and one Echo (40 mpg, ULEV) in the family here.  I've got nothing to apologize for.

Eat my voltage.  laugh