How should the west respond to Ukraine?

[Nick1911]

So the brainiacs running the west have managed to lose Ukraine completely and drive Russia, China and probably India into using something other than the dollar for trade amongst themselves. Great job guys.

This is an potentially large geopolitical outcome of current events with negative impacts to the US, and one that probably doesn't get enough attention.  Weaponizing our financial system will push people away from it, at a time when the US has recklessly increased the money supply, and seems uninterested in adjusting interest rates significantly enough to combat inflation.

[Ron]

That's not Putin's decision to make.  Ukraine is a sovereign country.  He tried a puppet government, and it got ousted by our puppet government, which in turn was ousted by the current government.  They can decide if they want to be closer to the west or not, and do in large part to Russia's stance as shitty neighbor they have decided they'd like to be closer to the rest of Europe.

Putin making demands he has no right to make, then being aggressive when those demands are not met, then starting a war when those demands are pushed back against actively is how we got here.  Neither the Ukraine nor the rest of Europe are under any obligation to cater to Russia's insecurities, or more truthfully: Russia's energy export ambitions...

I didn't say it was right or moral. I am just stating what the reality on the ground has been all along.

Putin pretty much said if you want Russia to use the military option then start bringing Ukraine into the EU and NATO. To him the wests actions aren't the benevolent spread of freedom but an act of aggression that weakens Russia's national security on several levels if allowed. 

It appears we decided to call his bluff.

[MechAg94]

I didn't say it was right or moral. I am just stating what the reality on the ground has been all along.

Putin pretty much said if you want Russia to use the military option then start bringing Ukraine into the EU and NATO. To him the wests actions aren't the benevolent spread of freedom but an act of aggression that weakens Russia's security on several levels if allowed. 

It appears we decided to call his bluff.

That is sort of my thought at present, but it is just hindsight now.  If there had been coherent leadership in place, the Ukraine could probably have figured out some way to be independent and neutral.  With all the corruption there and external interests pushing things, that didn't happen. 

I don't know if the "interests in the West" are necessarily US interests.  I figure it is the same people backing a lot of the elitists here. 

[Ron]

It also remains to be seen if Ukraine is lost.  A week ago I'd say they were, but that's the thing about war, it doesn't always turn out as predicted.

I tend to think that the west should continue giving Ukraine all the explody toys it can use, and should continue, or do more, in isolating the Russian government from money and influence over Europe.  There is a real risk that might nudge Russia into a bigger war of desperation, much the way the oil embargo did to Japan, but if they're that close to going all in, I suspect it's just a matter of time until they do it anyway.

If you want war with Russia there was hardly a better policy than the one we've implemented and followed for at least the last decade.

I know some scoffed at my saying the "globalists" wanted this war with Russia but I still think that is a possibility.

Maybe taking out Russia is part of the great reset.

Or maybe, dethroning the dollar by setting up the Russia/China/India system is the play.

We're all just fumbling in the dark here in actuality, there are wheels within wheels going on and we aren't in the "need to know" category or part of the big club.

My default is NO on military actions and wars. If I'm not considered in the need to know and there isn't a clear and present national security concern then the answer is no.

Somebodies interests are being pursued and it ain't ours.

 

 

[Nick1911]

If you want war with Russia there was hardly a better policy than the one we've implemented and followed for at least the last decade.

I know some scoffed at my saying the "globalists" wanted this war with Russia but I still think that is a possibility.

Maybe taking out Russia is part of the great reset.

Or maybe, dethroning the dollar by setting up the Russia/China/India system is the play.

We're all just fumbling in the dark here in actuality, there are wheels within wheels going on and we aren't in the "need to know" category or part of the big club.

My default is NO on military actions and wars. If I'm not considered in the need to know and there isn't a clear and present national security concern then the answer is no.

Somebodies interests are being pursued and it ain't ours.

It would be nice to know what's actually going on behind the scenes sometimes.

[cordex]

Since watching the Ukraine invasion I have been fascinated at the ineffectiveness of Russia's conventional military, however that makes me worry more about them feeling like they need to resort to their nuclear capability.  A nuclear exchange terrifies me.

I have no desire to get our nation involved in another shooting war with anyone, but much less someone with the capacity to glass American cities at will.

I'd love for Ukraine to win, and I'm all for doing whatever we can to help short of sending US troops or giving pretext to expanding the war.

[Lennyjoe]

I see us getting pulled in via an attack on a NATO county like Poland.  Other than that, support from a distance with weapons and ammo.

Question is, when does Putin go all in and claim the US is intervening via weapons and ammo…and start hitting those along the Ukraine borders or a cyber attack. 

A cyber attack may likely bring our economy to a standstill and cause a bunch of chaos

[Hawkmoon]

I don't see this invasion as a threat to the US, as sad and distasteful as it is.  It's not a genocide/extermination event; we don't have Jews in gas chambers or racial concentration camps or anything like that.  It's a territorial annexation with the intent of gaining economic control/leverage.  The market it impacts is Europe, not the US.

The prices at the gas pumps argue otherwise.

[AZRedhawk44]

The prices at the gas pumps argue otherwise.

One could argue the US did that to itself.

Gas has been spiraling upwards ever since Biden got in office, as a byproduct of domestic policy.  Add to that a US embargo on Russian petroleum imports, which I believe accounts for around 3% of total US petroleum imports, and that will create far more than a 3% jump in price at the pump.

Part of why the world is likely to see a brief flirtation with $200 a barrel oil is because everyone wants to embargo Russian oil, and they're jockeying to redirect their supply chains with the least interruption.

[AZRedhawk44]

An aside:

There's a stickied thread at the top of the politics section, regarding nicknames.  Does this apply to "Brandon" as well?  I would assume so but I'm pretty sure I've seen it here used casually, not sure if that one is somehow okay since the MSM more or less created it themselves.

[WLJ]

An aside:

There's a stickied thread at the top of the politics section, regarding nicknames.  Does this apply to "Brandon" as well?  I would assume so but I'm pretty sure I've seen it here used casually, not sure if that one is somehow okay since the MSM more or less created it themselves.

Rule doesn't apply when the target thinks that is their name 

[Nick1911]

An aside:

There's a stickied thread at the top of the politics section, regarding nicknames.  Does this apply to "Brandon" as well?  I would assume so but I'm pretty sure I've seen it here used casually, not sure if that one is somehow okay since the MSM more or less created it themselves.

That's a good question... I can really see both sides of the argument.  I've raised the question with the moderators.

[French G.]

It’s the nicest thing we can call him.

[MechAg94]

One could argue the US did that to itself.

Gas has been spiraling upwards ever since Biden got in office, as a byproduct of domestic policy.  Add to that a US embargo on Russian petroleum imports, which I believe accounts for around 3% of total US petroleum imports, and that will create far more than a 3% jump in price at the pump.

Part of why the world is likely to see a brief flirtation with $200 a barrel oil is because everyone wants to embargo Russian oil, and they're jockeying to redirect their supply chains with the least interruption.

Environmental activists have been arguing that we should let the price of gas go sky high for a long time to make alternatives more attractive.  Yes, I think the US has control of our own oil costs if we choose to take control over it. 

[Ben]

Well, I never expected NYC artists to be warmongers. New one on me.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2022/03/07/new-york-based-artists-litter-museum-with-paper-planes-to-call-for-a-no-fly-zone-over-ukraine/

[Ben]

Environmental activists have been arguing that we should let the price of gas go sky high for a long time to make alternatives more attractive.  Yes, I think the US has control of our own oil costs if we choose to take control over it.

It appears we choose not to:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/transportation-secretary-pete-buttigieg-says-electric-transportation-cost-savings-americans

It seems to me that the administration is in full "never let a crisis go to waste" mode. This is their big chance to send billions into EV and public transport while blaming the ruskies for the high gas prices these policies will continue to cause long after this conflict is over.

[Bogie]

Electric vehicles won't be popular until they are at entry-level pricing, instead of virtue-signaling pricing.
 
The first company that can produce a sub $10k electric "city car" is gonna make some bank.

[dogmush]

Electric vehicles won't be popular until they are at entry-level pricing, instead of virtue-signaling pricing.
 
The first company that can produce a sub $10k electric "city car" is gonna make some bank.

There are no sub $10k ICE vehicles.  I wouldn't hold your breath for an EV.

The cheaper EV's are high 20's-low 30s.  Not entry level, but certainly low-mid level pricing for a new car.

[Hawkmoon]

The cheaper EV's are high 20's-low 30s.  Not entry level, but certainly low-mid level pricing for a new car.

What's out there in that price range?

[Andiron]

It appears we choose not to:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/transportation-secretary-pete-buttigieg-says-electric-transportation-cost-savings-americans

It seems to me that the administration is in full "never let a crisis go to waste" mode. This is their big chance to send billions into EV and public transport while blaming the ruskies for the high gas prices these policies will continue to cause long after this conflict is over.

I'm at "fedpoast the *expletive deleted*it out of this"  and resisting valiantly.

*expletive deleted*ck that and *expletive deleted*ck him.

[dogmush]

What's out there in that price range?

Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt, Mini SE, Mazda MX-30, and I'm pretty sure one of the Hyandai Ioniq's is under 35k.

[MechAg94]

Iran nuclear deal possible soon, Russia's contribution constructive -Iranian spokesperson
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-nuclear-deal-possible-shortly-if-us-accepts-tehrans-points-iranian-2022-03-07/

Don't worry, reviving the Iran Nuclear Deal will save us all. 

Maybe this belongs in the "World has Gone Mad" thread. 

[Andiron]

Iran nuclear deal possible soon, Russia's contribution constructive -Iranian spokesperson
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-nuclear-deal-possible-shortly-if-us-accepts-tehrans-points-iranian-2022-03-07/

Don't worry, reviving the Iran Nuclear Deal will save us all. 

Maybe this belongs in the "World has Gone Mad" thread.

I'm this close to shaving my mustache, keeping the beard and joining the bloody Amish.  They seem to have their *expletive deleted*it together.

[Ron]

Saw the Tucker Carlson show tonight. Man, his monologue was on point. Strange that FOX keeps him around. He is practically on the dissident right these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MW6gp0aGY0

[Angel Eyes]

Stop sending Lego toys to the Russkies?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/companies/arid-40823622.html

That'll show 'em.