How should the west respond to Ukraine?

[Ben]

Regarding EV prices, I found this chart. It's from September 2021, so I expect many of these (like gas vehicles) are probably a good 15% higher by now.

https://insideevs.com/news/534027/electric-car-prices-us-20210918/

Edit: Note that the chart includes tax credits. The tax credits are listed below the chart, so that you can see the real cost of the vehicles without a credit.

[dogmush]

From roughly the same time period:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/average-new-car-costs-price-increase/

The Average price of a new car was $45,000.  There are several EV's below that number.

[Ben]

It appears that we'll be cutting off Russian oil exports today. Things should get sporty at the pumps. I think I'll fill up the truck and the gas cans for the small motors today. 


https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/03/08/leadership-biden-admin-reportedly-set-to-announce-ban-on-russian-oil-which-will-stick-it-to-putin-by-sending-us-gas-prices-skyrocketing/

[AZRedhawk44]

It appears that we'll be cutting off Russian oil exports today. Things should get sporty at the pumps. I think I'll fill up the truck and the gas cans for the small motors today. 


https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/03/08/leadership-biden-admin-reportedly-set-to-announce-ban-on-russian-oil-which-will-stick-it-to-putin-by-sending-us-gas-prices-skyrocketing/

It's about 3% of total US petroleum imports.

Yeah, it'll create a bump in fuel costs to discourage weekend road trips for some.  But it's not like a Saudi embargo or something like that.

[WLJ]

It's about 3% of total US petroleum imports.

Yeah, it'll create a bump in fuel costs to discourage weekend road trips for some.  But it's not like a Saudi embargo or something like that.

What should happen and what will happen can be two very different things.

[Ben]

What should happen and what will happen can be two very different things.

Yup. This will be another "crisis not going to waste", which will see more speeches by the admin on immediately switching to alternative energy, along with making Iran and Venezuela our good, dear friends, with oil and nuke deals and whatnot. I suspect the Ruskie embargo will now be a major talking point for pushing through a new Iran deal.

[Ben]

So letting people drill for oil at their own expense is economically bad, but propping up EV with tax dollars is good.

Biden says loosening environmental regs & pulling back on clean energy investment "will not lower energy prices for families." But subsidizing "electric vehicles powered by clean energy," he says "that will help."

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2022/03/08/joe-biden-gaslights-on-gas-prices-claims-its-simply-not-true-that-his-admin-is-stifling-us-energy-production-and-promptly-heads-for-the-hills-videos/

To reiterate my position on EV, I think the tech is great, and have even investigated it for myself. I'm not sure propping up the companies and giving consumers thousands of tax dollars to buy one is a fair solution. I note on that chart that I posted, the average credit is $7500. I also note that tax credits for Teslas don't exist, but there are plenty for Government Motors.

[dogmush]

US electrical production  is 60% fossil fuels.  Why does he think EVs are "powered by clean energy"?

[WLJ]

US electrical production  is 60% fossil fuels.  Why does he think EVs are "powered by clean energy"?

I shake my head whenever I see an EV with a "Zero Emissions" sticker for that very reason.

[dogmush]

Right?  And I LIKE EV's.  I'd have one except I don't want one of the cheap ones.

[K Frame]

I shake my head whenever I see an EV with a "Zero Emissions" sticker for that very reason.

I shake my head every time I read the plaque on my Subaru that says "Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle"!

So, my Subaru.... emits.

Whomever came up with that wording should be hooked up to the ignition discharge pack to see if they emit.

[K Frame]

McDonald's is shutting down its Russia locations.

Way to take a positive stand, MickeyD's... waited until you supply chain dried up and you couldn't keep the stores open any longer is my guess... 

[WLJ]

McDonald's is shutting down its Russia locations.

Way to take a positive stand, MickeyD's... waited until you supply chain dried up and you couldn't keep the stores open any longer is my guess... 

People were calling for a boycott of McDs and Coke

[WLJ]

McDonald's is shutting down its Russia locations.

Way to take a positive stand, MickeyD's... waited until you supply chain dried up and you couldn't keep the stores open any longer is my guess... 

In a month everyone in Russia will have lost 20lb and be in over all better health

[Nick1911]

Right?  And I LIKE EV's.  I'd have one except I don't want one of the cheap ones.

I'd consider an EV once my corolla bites it, but I'm really at the place where I prefer to buy used cars, in the 5-10k bracket for cash.  I wonder what the used EV market will look like in another 5-10 years?

[cordex]

I wonder what the used EV market will look like in another 5-10 years?

The way things are going maybe $150,000-$200,000 at the low end, and a $50 loaf of bread?

[Nick1911]

The way things are going maybe $150,000-$200,000 at the low end, and a $50 loaf of bread?

 

 

[WLJ]

And all restaurants will be Taco Bell

[AZRedhawk44]

I'd consider an EV once my corolla bites it, but I'm really at the place where I prefer to buy used cars, in the 5-10k bracket for cash.  I wonder what the used EV market will look like in another 5-10 years?

I don't foresee anything good out of the used EV market.

An ICE engine can run for 10 years just fine and maybe need some seals replaced.  Coolant pump, maybe the air conditioner needs servicing, radiator.  Stuff like that.

The battery pack is more than half the value of the total car, and it's not going to last 10 years.  Replacing it is a 5-figure commitment.  Then the thing still needs air conditioner equipment just like a regular car.  The drive motors are far less expensive than an ICE engine, but they're not immune to fatigue or depolarization of their magnets or electrolytic decay of their capacitors.

Buying a used EV is a near guarantee of a steep repair bill.  Buying a used ICE vehicle is not, if you have a discriminating eye and decent vehicle knowledge.

[Ben]

The way things are going maybe $150,000-$200,000 at the low end, and a $50 loaf of bread?

I just happened to check F150 prices a couple of days ago. I recall posting during early covid that the local dealer offered me I think $34K for my 2016 F150 XLT, with the identical 2021 F150 (except the 2021 was 4WD) going for $36K, which would have put me in a brand new truck for probably around $3500.

The current price for the 2022 version of mine? $52K.

Cars are getting to be like houses. You've got to get yourself into one and hope yours holds its value so you can get another one down the road. I'm having a hard time accepting that I'll have to pay over $50K for my next new ride. Kinda like I wouldn't buy my current home at today's price.

[WLJ]

Putin: Retreat! Retreat!

Starbucks to pause operations in Russia

Starbucks has said it will pause all business activity in Russia, including shipments and cafe operations.

This follows McDonald's decision to also temporarily close all restaurants and pause operations in Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60657155

[French G.]

Subaru partial zero emissions always gets me too. They divided zero!

I have been trying to listen to conservative talk radio as well as npr. All the gloom and doom that hannity can muster. Lemme tell you, for every AOC there are three “conservatives” that are way dumber. They chase every boogie man. With this one every show is drill more, Biden is an idiot, EVs lol ol!

Not once do I hear nuclear. If there was actually any leaders in the stupid party they would be out there pushing a put a man on the moon in this decade level race to nuclear. Pick spots on federal installations, do the permits per existing rules, declare a national emergency to halt the lawfare activists and give the power to the grid for free. Last time we wanted a world war we flooded a good bit of eastern Tennessee to get the power to do it.

[Nick1911]

Not once do I hear nuclear. If there was actually any leaders in the stupid party they would be out there pushing a put a man on the moon in this decade level race to nuclear. Pick spots on federal installations, do the permits per existing rules, declare a national emergency to halt the lawfare activists and give the power to the grid for free. Last time we wanted a world war we flooded a good bit of eastern Tennessee to get the power to do it.

Right?  I have trouble taking anyone seriously about environmentalism, climate change, or energy policy if the opening statements don't contain a push for nuclear.  We fixed how to get cheap, clean energy half a century ago, we're just not doing it.

[Ron]

Right?  I have trouble taking anyone seriously about environmentalism, climate change, or energy policy if the opening statements don't contain a push for nuclear.  We fixed how to get cheap, clean energy half a century ago, we're just not doing it.

There is a lot of incoherency in the way things are run.

[Nick1911]

There is a lot of incoherency in the way things are run.

The energy sector has a lot of money, and can buy a lot of policy.