Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: wmenorr67 on July 14, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
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http://www.newson6.com/story/32446237/donald-trump-picks-indiana-governor-as-running-mate
Anyone here from Indiana that can weigh in on this?
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http://www.newson6.com/story/32446237/donald-trump-picks-indiana-governor-as-running-mate
Anyone here from Indiana that can weigh in on this?
Pence has gotten a bit too progressive as Gov and showed a wet-noodle spine in the face of the gaystapo. Pence has no balls when faced by shrieking SJWs.
OTOH, he used to be good on immigration:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Mike_Pence_Immigration.htm
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IN is one of the more responsible states fiscally IIRC
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Pence has gotten a bit too progressive as Gov and showed a wet-noodle spine in the face of the gaystapo. Pence has no balls when faced by shrieking SJWs.
OTOH, he used to be good on immigration:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Mike_Pence_Immigration.htm
So no different than Biden.
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Overnight I heard a few reports that maybe Pence is out.
Some scuttlebutt that Trump is pissed about Mikey running his mouth about things too soon.
Now we aren't supposed to get the official announcement till Saturday since Trump postponed the event out of respect for the trouble in France.
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Now we aren't supposed to get the official announcement till Saturday since Trump postponed the event out of respect for the trouble in France.
Which is troublesome for Pence because it is my understanding he has to announce by today if he is going to leave the race for Gov.
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Overnight I heard a few reports that maybe Pence is out.
Some scuttlebutt that Trump is pissed about Mikey running his mouth about things too soon.
Now we aren't supposed to get the official announcement till Saturday since Trump postponed the event out of respect for the trouble in France.
My thought is that it's Gingrich. He's one of those who pointed to Pence.
Trump knows he'll get more news coverage with a headfake and then a different pick. News covers the first guy. Covers the SUDDEN SURPRISE PICK! and then covers the new guy.
For all Trump's myriad faults, he knows how to play the media.
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Of the three top picks I dislike Gingrich the least.
Christie is an abomination and I have to admit mostly ignorance about Pence but I don't like what little I know about him.
Nuts and bolts, actually doing the job, I think the Newt would be a good pick for the billet. Being able to get elected is another thing, the libtard media is going to run him through a shredder worse than they did with Palin.
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Trump confirms Pence.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/753965070003109888
I'm glad he didn't pick Christie. ;/
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Trump confirms Pence.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/753965070003109888
I'm glad he didn't pick Christie. ;/
My reaction as well. I'm not excited about Pence, given his squishiness, but he's better than Governor Christie.
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Pence is all in for the TPP. And he and Trump seem out of sync on immigration.
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Trump is well known for playing both ends of the spectrum. He's a capitalist. He's not a conservative or a liberal. He's not a republican or a democrat. He is a capitalist. He has a large ego. He has a streak of ruthlessness. What billionaire capitalist is any different than he is? He is probably the best manager of a 3 trillion dollar a year investment than anyone else. Yeah the congress is supposed to hold the pursestrings but to Trump congress is the CFO. He is the CEO. And congress and the federal courts are also the board of directors. He says what is on his mind at the moment. He changes his mind. I think he's one of those fellows who's mouth is part of his thinking process. I understand that as I do the same thing sometimes. Saying what you think out loud helps to cement the notion or idea. Or, after you hear it, maybe you need to look at it again because the good people you surround yourself with provide you with some substantive information that causes you to reconsider your position. That is being a smart manager.
Concerned Americans have been wanting what Trump is for many years. Now we have what we've been wanting and everybody is whining about it? Judas Maude!! What in the heck do you want anyway? Most politicians are morons about, well, just about everything because they never have done anything!! They are bought and sold like slaves on the dock. And you want more of that? Trump will be fun to watch and he might just actually straighten some crap out...to say nothing about the number of federal judges will needed over the next few years.
Quit bellyaching. Rethink not voting or voting for a lost cause (who aren't at this stage of the game much better than Hillary as they are just another batch of politicians) just because your ego and self awareness seems to be more important to you than the health of our nation. That's selfish thinking and frankly your posturing about it looks and sounds stupid.
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Gingrich would have brought a lot of baggage to the table. Pence while being a compriser probably strengthens the ticket.
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I was actually hoping he would pick Fallin, would have made a lot of Oklahomans happy.
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I was hoping for Joni Ernst
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Gingrich would have brought a lot of baggage to the table. Pence while being a compriser probably strengthens the ticket.
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Just goes to show the rift in this country. We consider Pence to be closer to center than right, while the Hillary machine and general left are screaming about what a rabid far, far right choice he is.
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I was hoping for Joni Ernst
I rather like the fact that he's not playing the "we have women/minorities, too" game with his VP pick.
Not to imply that's why you wanted her. Just sayin...
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I rather like the fact that he's not playing the "we have women/minorities, too" game with his VP pick.
Not to imply that's why you wanted her. Just sayin...
This.
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Reply #11....
Good goin', grampster !
Rigid opinion which I ain't changing:
Voting for unviable 3rd party candidates or not voting "in protest" is handing Ms. Clinton the winning ticket, and thank you very much. Principles are one thing, who nominates SCOTUS candidates in the next 4 years is another.
^ Me said that.
Terry
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Trump is well known for playing both ends of the spectrum. He's a capitalist. He's not a conservative or a liberal. He's not a republican or a democrat. He is a capitalist. He has a large ego. He has a streak of ruthlessness. What billionaire capitalist is any different than he is? He is probably the best manager of a 3 trillion dollar a year investment than anyone else. Yeah the congress is supposed to hold the pursestrings but to Trump congress is the CFO. He is the CEO. And congress and the federal courts are also the board of directors. He says what is on his mind at the moment. He changes his mind. I think he's one of those fellows who's mouth is part of his thinking process. I understand that as I do the same thing sometimes. Saying what you think out loud helps to cement the notion or idea. Or, after you hear it, maybe you need to look at it again because the good people you surround yourself with provide you with some substantive information that causes you to reconsider your position. That is being a smart manager.
Concerned Americans have been wanting what Trump is for many years. Now we have what we've been wanting and everybody is whining about it? Judas Maude!! What in the heck do you want anyway? Most politicians are morons about, well, just about everything because they never have done anything!! They are bought and sold like slaves on the dock. And you want more of that? Trump will be fun to watch and he might just actually straighten some crap out...to say nothing about the number of federal judges will needed over the next few years.
Quit bellyaching. Rethink not voting or voting for a lost cause (who aren't at this stage of the game much better than Hillary as they are just another batch of politicians) just because your ego and self awareness seems to be more important to you than the health of our nation. That's selfish thinking and frankly your posturing about it looks and sounds stupid.
Speaking of belly-aching.
I expect I'll vote for Trump, though he was certainly not my first choice. That being said, quit lecturing the third-party voters. They have their reasons, just as you will have your reasons, when the Republicans finally nominate someone that even you and I can't stomach (and I've been there twice, already). If you're going to grouse, save it for the people that stuck the party with a less-than-unifying candidate.
And for the third-partyites, if you can't vote for the GOP candidate, then don't. Give your reasons if you like, but forego the moralizing and put-downs. We all have to use our best judgment here, and we don't all reach the same conclusion.
Can't we all just get along? =)
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Speaking of belly-aching.
I expect I'll vote for Trump, though he was certainly not my first choice. That being said, quit lecturing the third-party voters. They have their reasons, just as you will have your reasons, when the Republicans finally nominate someone that even you and I can't stomach (and I've been there twice, already). If you're going to grouse, save it for the people that stuck the party with a less-than-unifying candidate.
And for the third-partyites, if you can't vote for the GOP candidate, then don't. Give your reasons if you like, but forego the moralizing and put-downs. We all have to use our best judgment here, and we don't all reach the same conclusion.
Can't we all just get along? =)
Well said fistful.
I still don't know which way I'm going. I'm currently still leaning third party vs Trump, but I suspect my mind won't be made up until late October. Many things could sway me one way or another, not the least of which would be another SC justice retiring.
I never dissuade those who want to go third party, whether it's against the R or the D "main candidate". Honestly, as a message to the establishment(s), I would love to see an outcome like this:
Trump 25%
Clinton 20%
The conglomeration of all other parties and write-ins 55%.
Something like that would send a message that everyone is sick of both sides.
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"Speaking of belly-aching.
I expect I'll vote for Trump, though he was certainly not my first choice. That being said, quit lecturing the third-party voters. They have their reasons, just as you will have your reasons, when the Republicans finally nominate someone that even you and I can't stomach (and I've been there twice, already). If you're going to grouse, save it for the people that stuck the party with a less-than-unifying candidate.
And for the third-partyites, if you can't vote for the GOP candidate, then don't. Give your reasons if you like, but forego the moralizing and put-downs. We all have to use our best judgment here, and we don't all reach the same conclusion.
Can't we all just get along?"
Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion and as such others can judge it. If I think something is stupid, I might reflect on it, then maybe I'll say it. This forum isn't necessarily for all of us to get along. It's about conversation, ideas and the like. I have seen snark of the highest order on occasion since I've been a member...from the beginning.
I do, as a matter of fact, believe that one vote can have a large impact. I was elected to public office and served my fellow citizens in several appointed positions as well as serving in LE. I managed to have a positive impact in that regard on a number of occasions as one voice who convinced others. It works better in the micro environment than in the macro. I've been around the block. Sometimes I'm blunt. That is not rare on this forum, by the way. I'm older than most here and was trained at a young age to pay attention to stuff. We have a two party system in this country that has been challenged woefully on a number of occasions. Usually it led from a bad thing to something getting worse, ala Perot. It is not likely to change from that or have any other impact this time around, either. That's why it's stupid. You can yearn for change and work for change. It ain't gonna happen. To many Americans are ignorant, misled, lazy, uninformed or dogmatically oblivious. The Tea Party went at it pretty hard and was doing it the right way at first. It got trampled to death by the organization that it should have invigorated...the Republican Party. So there you go.
Our Republic as we have known it is dying. It can be salvaged, maybe. But it ain't gonna happen by sitting on your heiney in a snit wondering why we can't all get along. It ain't gonna happen by sulking, daydreaming and voting for some 3rd or 4th party candidate than no one ever heard of either. Or wishing for some weird thing to occur...wait, a weird thing has occurred. I'd rather go down watching that weird thing that actually exists now...that is Donald Trump than enduring 4 years of that annoying, shrill, caricature of a woman, which is what we'll get again if you stay home or vote for some sure thing loser because you're dreaming about something that isn't gonna happen.
OK, ban me now.
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OK, ban me now.
Pfft. Only if you vote for Hillary. :P =D
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That was informative. Of what I don't know, but it was informative ..... ??? ???
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Sir, it appears to be a series of characters that look like downward pointing arrows
(/incredible statement of the obvious passed off as profound thought. Been watching way too many Star Trek TNG reruns)
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Quit bellyaching. Rethink not voting or voting for a lost cause (who aren't at this stage of the game much better than Hillary as they are just another batch of politicians) just because your ego and self awareness seems to be more important to you than the health of our nation. That's selfish thinking and frankly your posturing about it looks and sounds stupid.
Ah yes, the ever popular "Quit being selfish and suborn your ideas and vote to who I feel is best" coupled with the always present "THIS election is too important to have ideals in" and tempered with a pinch of "I'm older than you and know better anyway".
Let's see how that works out for Republicans.
I am not a "NeverTrump". I am currently, strongly a not Trump as he has yet to articulate a plan(that has any chance of succeeding in our three branched system) to actually govern anywhere close to my ideas of what should happen. He has a coupe months to try and convince people like me. Failing that, I'll fall back on my long term plan to slowly, by drips and drabs convert people to an actual pro liberty party until they either take over an existing party, or push one out and take over as the second party('ala the Whig/Republican swap). You're right that it won't be this year. But we'll make progress a little bit at a time.*
Liberals aren't the only people that can read Rules for Radicals
*At the risk of sounding a little churlish, if all the people currently telling us that "THIS ONE is too important!! Have principals next time!" had listened to us 15-20 years ago (or longer) we wouldn't be in this situation. Perhaps you folks should stop being so selfish and help us with the decade long work of prying people and seats away from the liberals.
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Now I'm wondering about Hillary's pick. It'll be interesting if she goes far left to try and shore up Bernie supporters, for someone who's squeaky-clean to try and mitigate her scandals and legal troubles, or someone with actual "warmth and charisma" as she has none.
I'm trying to think of someone who's "all three", but I'm coming up short.
However, as compared to Hillary herself, I'm thinking that the squeaky-clean and charisma categories might actually be a rather low bar.
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Ah yes, the ever popular "Quit being selfish and suborn your ideas and vote to who I feel is best" coupled with the always present "THIS election is too important to have ideals in" and tempered with a pinch of "I'm older than you and know better anyway".
Let's see how that works out for Republicans.
I am not a "NeverTrump". I am currently, strongly a not Trump as he has yet to articulate a plan(that has any chance of succeeding in our three branched system) to actually govern anywhere close to my ideas of what should happen. He has a coupe months to try and convince people like me. Failing that, I'll fall back on my long term plan to slowly, by drips and drabs convert people to an actual pro liberty party until they either take over an existing party, or push one out and take over as the second party('ala the Whig/Republican swap). You're right that it won't be this year. But we'll make progress a little bit at a time.*
Liberals aren't the only people that can read Rules for Radicals
*At the risk of sounding a little churlish, if all the people currently telling us that "THIS ONE is too important!! Have principals next time!" had listened to us 15-20 years ago (or longer) we wouldn't be in this situation. Perhaps you folks should stop being so selfish and help us with the decade long work of prying people and seats away from the liberals.
Well, that's been ongoing now since the Bull Moose Party of Teddy Roosevelt. Then it spawned (if that is an appropriate word. Perhaps so.) George Wallace and on to Ross Perot and then the Tea Party, the only actual movement that had some promise and actually put some folks into elected positions. Of course the Establishment wrecked that movement because of the tangible threat that it was. Too bad more of the wishful thinkers didn't get on board and resisted that. Some of us have been working at it at the grass roots for years trying to get school boards to get their collective heads out of their nether parts, at the township and county and town and village and state levels. There has been some progress. Smaller government units not doing stupid things and getting in debt, some schools actually teaching the trades, Shall Issue, Castle Doctrine, Right to Work, conversion of some smaller unions into actual benefit of its members rather than enriching its overlords and some in state houses and governors and the federal congress who have the courage to stand. (As for the age issue. That makes me laugh out loud. I've watched for many years the young bucks come along with "new" idea that we older folks have seen fail before, but they were just to young to actually know the "new" idea was old bunkum. Maybe some day you youngsters will understand that... and besides; Get Off My Grass.) But you need to pick your battles. To guarantee Hillary gets the presidency is not one of them. She might anyway, but why help her? Before you close your mind, you have 4 months to mellow out. If you want to think a bit more about Trump, you need to get past the media, Democrat and Liberal propaganda. He is what I suggested in post 11. If Trump attempted presidential/executive overreach as Obama has and Hillary surely will, the congress is more likely to do its job as they wouldn't be accused (oh horror) of being a sexist pig or misogynist as they would with her. We the people have the benefit of him being an old, rich, white male. Besides, we get to watch the liberals and MSM's heads explode. If the Libertarian, Gary Bland, was worth his salt and any support, he would have been part of the Tea Party trying to change the Republican Party. What he is is just another egotistical politician who's throwing a monkey wrench into the works like those who have gone before. Some of his notions are closer to the Democrats if you listen to what he says.
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Here's the thing about a third-party vote in this election....
If you truly and thoroughly support the third-party candidate, then you should vote for that candidate. But, no third-party voter should have any delusion that his/her vote will prevent Hillary Clinton from winning. The only vote that has a chance to do that is to vote for the only candidate that gets closest to defeating her. Right now, that's Trump. If you don't want Hillary, Trump is the only realistic option. Then, after this election is over, you can work on making your third party a viable choice in state and Congressional elections. Get that done, and then your candidate has a shot.
Reality is cruel......
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If you don't want Hillary, Trump is the only realistic option. Then, after this election is over, you can work on making your third party a viable choice in state and Congressional elections. Get that done, and then your candidate has a shot.
Reality is cruel......
That's what I was told about Obama. Twice. And Bush. Twice.
And yet, here we are. Every election is too important to have ideals. Every one is an emergency for the republicans, and I just need to suck it up this time and start working on a third party next time.
I'm over it.
If Hillary wins, it's because the GOP didn't even pay lip service to the ideas of people like me, but acted (again) like I owed them something. Not because I demurred to be bent over by a NYC crony capitalist.
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Now I'm wondering about Hillary's pick. It'll be interesting if she goes far left to try and shore up Bernie supporters, for someone who's squeaky-clean to try and mitigate her scandals and legal troubles, or someone with actual "warmth and charisma" as she has none.
I'm trying to think of someone who's "all three", but I'm coming up short.
However, as compared to Hillary herself, I'm thinking that the squeaky-clean and charisma categories might actually be a rather low bar.
Watch her nominate Bill... Everyone remembers that guy fondly, and none of his misdeeds ever stuck.
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Watch her nominate Bill... Everyone remembers that guy fondly, and none of his misdeeds ever stuck.
Except for Monica's dress. (drum hit, high hat)
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The funny thing is, is that if everyone that dissatisfied with the Trump or Hillary options voted third party, then the third party candidate would win.
I'm too, am being sick of being told to "suck it up, this election is too important". If it's that damn important, then then do what you promise you will do. This last election I was told was the most important because "We need to stop Obama's illegal immigrant amnesty, budget, defund Obamacare, and stop his other actions." * Yet within days of handing the R's a majority in senate and largest R majority in the house, they literally spit in our face and passed everything Obama wanted and asked for.
Sorry, but when you lie to my face, I'm done with you. If you lose this election, it's because of the your actions, not mine. And I'm of half a mind to even vote for Hillary just to burn this MF'er down.
* - Do I even need to mention what the R establishment did in Mississippi to the Tea Party Candidate to protect one of their own?
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I give the GOP a partial pass, because a lot of the anger is over not understanding that Obama could/would just veto anything the GOP passed. And without a 60 seat majority, the Democrats can still tie the Senate up in knots if they wish.
However, as scout26 alludes to, there's still a TON of actions the GOP has taken the past four years that has shown people the GOP isn't that different than the DNC in that the politics of power are definitely more important than the politics of ideology. Something I think doesn't shock anyone here as much as it has the nominal American Right voter base overall. I think when a lot of people throw up their hands in frustration saying "Meh. They're all the same!" this is what they really mean.
The GOP has definitely NOT learned the "Trump Lesson" so far. They still fall too easily to the Beltway/Costal Urban "bubble" and the MSM. Not realizing that at least half of America approves of their politicians by how much the MSM hates them. And not really getting at a gut level the MSM is always going to hate them anyway.
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every time we hear the same thing. "Voting third party is a waste! Support our guy! it's the only way to keep the republic alive a little longer"
and yet... here we are.
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A point that has been made elsewhere is: the GOPe keeps asking "How do we stop Trump?" when they should be asking "How did we fail our constituents so miserably that a guy like Trump looks good by comparison?"
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A point that has been made elsewhere is: the GOPe keeps asking "How do we stop Trump?" when they should be asking "How did we fail our constituents so miserably that a guy like Trump looks good by comparison?"
QFT....
.....and awkward that the only anti-establishment candidate in the election IS Trump.
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I give the GOP a partial pass, because a lot of the anger is over not understanding that Obama could/would just veto anything the GOP passed. And without a 60 seat majority, the Democrats can still tie the Senate up in knots if they wish.
I can't give them that pass. To me, it's quitting before you even start. Sure, Obama can veto, but that puts the ball in his court. MAKE him veto stuff. The whole "playing ball" thing has not worked for Rs throughout Obama's administration. They fold, yet are still labeled obstructionists by D's and the MSM. Make Obama (or Clinton if we go to hell in NOV) the obstructionist by putting legislation on their desk that they refuse to sign.
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I can't give them that pass. To me, it's quitting before you even start. Sure, Obama can veto, but that puts the ball in his court. MAKE him veto stuff. The whole "playing ball" thing has not worked for Rs throughout Obama's administration. They fold, yet are still labeled obstructionists by D's and the MSM. Make Obama (or Clinton if we go to hell in NOV) the obstructionist by putting legislation on their desk that they refuse to sign.
^^^ This.
IMHO, when both sides only offer bad solutions there's actually a lot to be said for stalemates. If the only new laws being proposed are bad, what's so bad about not getting any new laws signed into being?
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1. Many folk here seem to hold the notion that their vote matters.
It doesn't. Do the math. Also, see the results when the vote is whipped by GOPe, they are elected to majorities on a message, and then GOPe betrays both message and voters. Don't get so wound around the axle about something so worthless. OTOH, whipping up voters en mass via propaganda and other influence can be effectual. 2010 and 2014 were very good for GOPe functionaries as the cosmopolitan billionaire bucks just rolled in.
2. GOPe has largely fallen in line behind Trump.
They did not do this out of principle, but because they think the outcome for them will be better if, given current circumstances, Trump wins the GOP POTUS candidate race and the general election. "Better" for them means they more or less get to keep their positions in GOPe and that money keeps rolling in. IMO, GOPe will get a shearing, but it will be a closer & bloodier shearing if they make it harder for Trump.
3. Scott Adams thinks the Pence pick is a good one:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/147495137831/gingrich-pence-and-monitoring-mosques
Maybe he is right. But I think a rubber-spined VPOTUS candidate with a rubbery ideology increases the odds of Trump being impeached, as his replacement is so easily influenced. Impeachment insurance would have been to nominate someone with a long track record of patriotic stances on immigration, trade, etc. Someone like Jeff Sessions, Pat Buchanan, etc.
4. Peter Pan Voting
Voting an Utopian 3rd Party never-electable ticket means you can stay a boy forever and never have to grow up. Never have to see how your ideology would work in the real world as there is no risk it will ever be implemented. "See, here, the NAP would manage that seeming libertarian contradictory gordian paradox just swimmingly." "Where's your proof and data? Because less ideologically informed (but more traditionally-minded) political systems have managed the issue more or less well over the last couple thousand years."
5. And let there be no doubt: The Libertarian Party is based on a utopian view of reality.
The moment it is implemented, several of its key points would see it destroyed. Just one example being open borders, as third worlders flood over the border and turn California in Mexico del Norte and Dearborn into Karachi West. Tell me again about the robust libertarian streak in the average Mexican peasant and Paki screaming beard.
6. Liberty-Destroying Libertarians
With open borders and sexual perversion uber alles, libertarians have shown they can be as destructive to the culture as socialists are to the economy. In some cases, implementing libertarian-backed policies have resulted in less liberty over all.
7. For my own part, I think Trump's Pence pick reduced his chances of getting anything pro-American done as POTUS from 10% down to about 7%. Still better odds than any other remotely plausible option. Plus, Trump doesn't hate Americans the way BHO and Hillary do.
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After 4 decades of being a rep this very pro life non gay marriage supporting old man is voting johnson
And I don't even smoke pot
He's less morally objectionable than other choices
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If you look at some of Johnson's positions, he's more like Hillary. I've seen comments from people who lived in his state and one that worked with him and they say he's a piece of work.
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The libertarians disqualify themselves on the immigration issue and abortion issue.
They are pro third world invasion and and pro death to babies.
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I should specify that when I was talking "third party", I seem to default to that term to mean I'm not voting for the designated R or designated D, not that I'm actually voting for one of the other parties. I might, if they had candidates I really believed in, but for what seems to be the default APS third party, the Libertarians, I don't think I could vote for Johnson.
If I can't bring myself to vote for Trump, my "third party" will actually be a write-in this time around.
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The libertarians disqualify themselves on the immigration issue and abortion issue.
They are pro third world invasion and and pro death to babies.
So, no different from the other two parties then.
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The libertarians disqualify themselves on the immigration issue and abortion issue.
They are pro third world invasion and and pro death to babies.
Lol
As opposed to the other two parties yeah?
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The libertarians disqualify themselves on the immigration issue and abortion issue.
They are pro third world invasion and and pro death to babies.
So are the other 2 in real life
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One one hand the liberals were all foamy mouthed about Pence so that's a point in his favor. One the other hand Ryan likes him so that's a point against him. One the other other hand he's kind of squishy on religious freedom and managed to piss off both sides of that issue at home, pissing off everybody is kind of a plus.
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One the other other hand he's kind of squishy on religious freedom and managed to piss off both sides of that issue at home, pissing off everybody is kind of a plus.
Does that mean if everybody likes him it's a negative?
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Does that mean if everybody likes him it's a negative?
Nobody can be all things to all people but anyone can be hated by everyone.
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I know I started this thread and have been away for a couple of days and I didn't go through and read all the responses, but I will put this out there:
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/election/2016/07/17/military-times-survey-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/87024898/
This is a link to the latest poll of close to 2000 military members, over 20% are stating at this time they are voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton.