Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: zxcvbob on January 12, 2024, 08:27:04 PM
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-blocks-federal-border-agents-processing-migrants-eagle-pass-shelby-park/
I don't see this ending well. Biden will probably federalize the Texas National Guard to end it peacefully. Maybe send them to BFE or Minot or something as punishment. (punish the frontline soldiers rather than the CiC) I'm surprised Abbott didn't foresee that and use the Texas State Guard instead of the NG; I don't think they can be federalized (y'all can correct me if I'm wrong), although they are probably not as well trained.
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Hmmm ...
From the article:
Last month, Abbott signed a law known as SB4 that would allow Texas law enforcement officials to arrest, jail and prosecute migrants on state criminal charges of entering the country illegally. The law, which criminalizes an action already illegal at the federal level, is being challenged in federal court by the Justice Department and civil rights groups. It is set to take effect in March.
Seems to me that a lot of federal laws criminalize things that are already criminal at the state level. More to the point -- so what? They are different laws, under different jurisdictions. It's NOT double jeopardy to charge someone under both federal and state law for the same offense. In fact, the Buffalo market shooter, who has already been convicted and sentenced under state law, is currently facing trial in federal court over the same shooting spree. "The media" haven't raised any objections to that.
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Well at some point someone has to do something. The driver is not at the wheel on this bus.
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I thought that the Supreme Court banned states from making immigration laws... Is that the case, or am I misremembering?
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-blocks-federal-border-agents-processing-migrants-eagle-pass-shelby-park/
I don't see this ending well. Biden will probably federalize the Texas National Guard to end it peacefully. Maybe send them to BFE or Minot or something as punishment. (punish the frontline soldiers rather than the CiC) I'm surprised Abbott didn't foresee that and use the Texas State Guard instead of the NG; I don't think they can be federalized (y'all can correct me if I'm wrong), although they are probably not as well trained.
Maybe Abbott did foresee that probable outcome. He's not stupid. While everyone enjoys him sending illegals into blue cities it's not really changing anything, it is in many ways just facilitating the invasion.
Right, Left, at this point the differences appear to me to be on the margins, while the trajectory is not only unchanged but picking up speed.
The USA we were led to believe existed has been shown to be a political parlor trick pulled on the masses.
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I thought that the Supreme Court banned states from making immigration laws... Is that the case, or am I misremembering?
I guess that's what it comes down to. At the state level they want to keep them out, and at the federal level they want to help them get in. I don't know what the SCOTUS said, but it sounds as if the litigants will be back for round 2.
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What has to be made clear is what specific laws, if any, the federal government and it's agents are breaking while facilitating a massive uncontrolled entry of unidentified foreign nationals. Then action must be taken. I don't think that any authority can maintain said authority in the face of overt and intentional dereliction of duty.
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Abbott throws down the gauntlet:
https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1750235544951349275
Gov. Stitt of Oklahoma: "Oklahoma stands with Texas"
https://twitter.com/GovStitt/status/1750251885783879831
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What has to be made clear is what specific laws, if any, the federal government and it's agents are breaking while facilitating a massive uncontrolled entry of unidentified foreign nationals. Then action must be taken. I don't think that any authority can maintain said authority in the face of overt and intentional dereliction of duty.
At minimum it is illegal for anyone to cross the border except at a designated entry point. By encouraging and facilitating people crossing outside the Ports of Entry, CBP is breaking the law.
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https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/01/court-allows-border-patrol-to-cut-texas-razor-wire-along-rio-grande/
Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, and Brett Kavanaugh – indicated that they would have denied the Biden administration’s request and allowed the lower court’s order to remain in place.
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I freely admit I don't know much about this part of our constitution. Reading Abbott's letter, it sounds like he's correct, and that Biden taking over the Texas NG would be unconstitutional. In fact on the face of it (again not being familiar with this part of the constitution), it sounds not only unconstitutional, but as something serious enough to be a prelude to civil war. Especially when you hear "Oklahoma stands with Texas".
Anyone here know enough about this part of the constitution to post an executive summary?
EDIT: Related, I saw an article with photos yesterday that showed one of the concertina wire blockades was set up literally 200 yards from a Federal designated entry point. People were still standing by the wire trying to figure a way through rather than walking to the designated entry point. If they are legitimate "asylum seekers", why are they avoiding the entry point that's right damn there?
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As I understand it, the State of Texas took over a locally owned park - a park that was NOT Federal land. So the question is - constitutionally, does the Federal government have the legitimate legal power to appropriate State owned and controlled land? Without even going through the eminent domain process?
Does the State have the power and authority to control/prevent access to State owned/controlled land?
If there's a national security concern, will tbe Feds argue that free and unfettered access to the USA by swarms of unvetted illegal aliens is essential to US national security?
As far as the NG being Federalized, there was a case back in, IIRC, 1990 (Perpich vs DOD or something like that) in which the Feds wanted to send the Minnesota National Guard to Central America for something or other. Minnesota governor Rudy Perpich made the argument that the Mn NG was a state militia, subject to his orders, and he didn't want them in Central America. SCOTUS ruled that since the Mn NG was funded by the Feds, they WEREN'T the state militia. So they went to Central America over Perpich's objections.
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On the NG thing, yeah, it's USC Title 10 that allows the various state NG's to be called up to federal service and sent places . (FWIW, Title 32 covers the Governor sending them to do state things).
The sticky wicket is that Title 10 orders make them part of the federal military and inelegible to do military stuff domestically. (That's why it's always the NG and not the Reserves and/or Active Military that you see post disaster and stuff) Title 32 orders would let them be used in CONUS, but need to come from Abbot, not the fed.gov. I suppose that Biden could come up with some BS mission that needs those units either in Europe, or even just over at Ft. Hood and send them there under Title 10, but then the question might become how many would go?
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As far as the NG being Federalized, there was a case back in, IIRC, 1990 (Perpich vs DOD or something like that) in which the Feds wanted to send the Minnesota National Guard to Central America for something or other. Minnesota governor Rudy Perpich made the argument that the Mn NG was a state militia, subject to his orders, and he didn't want them in Central America. SCOTUS ruled that since the Mn NG was funded by the Feds, they WEREN'T the state militia. So they went to Central America over Perpich's objections.
So it all comes down to who pays for what huh.
In the end though they can talk all the legalese and technicalities that they want but the elephant in the room is that the federal government is not only in complete dereliction of duties but is actively breaking laws, and if you want to go further to the huge beached whale in the room you might say that the federal government is intentionally and strategically betraying the sovereignty of the country and setting fire to the fabric of the nation by orchestrating a foreign invasion. There is a point where domestic authorities become domestic enemies, it all depends on who is daring enough to call a spade a spade. “In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
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As always there are no good guys here. The Federal government is not acting like the good guy here. They have been amazingly negligent, and TX has a legitimate and strong grievance, but the feds are very clearly in "We DGAF, FAFO" mode. It's amazing to think the feds aren't even trying to address TX's grievances which are legitimate, and they are doing this over essentially defending illegal immigration, which is a strange cause to choose, except I guess it lands so firmly in federal purview. I think about how this will be explained to future school children, but of course we can see how it's being pitched in the contemporary media already...defending the feds will be awkward, like trying to explain actions motivated by slavery preservation. Little Timmy asks "Teacher, why did the federal government take such action?" and the real answer will be "because 2 million people per year were coming into the US illegally, and TX was trying to stop it, and the feds wanted it to continue". But actually they will either dodge the issue, and downplay it I guess, and claim it was a federal action to preserve federal supremacy and try to avoid mentioning they were doing it to preserve the "institution of open borders".
All the same, Abbot can't win this one and I don't know what his angle is. Don't forget Little Rock after Brown vs. Board of education, where Arkansas took a similar stance and their national guard was simply federalized and used against them to enforce federal will. I don't see how that won't simply happen again.
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IMO, Biden and his administration do their best to ignore illegal immigration and have tried (at least in the past) to claim they are doing something. If Abbott forces the Biden Admin to take forceful action to OPEN the border, it is a win-win for Abbott, especially in an election year. Even if Abbott backs off after that, it is still a win.
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The whole situation is so polarizing that guardsmen might just be tempted to ignore being federalized to support CBP illegal immigration operations and go AWOL. Or worse they might continue to hold the line in defiance. They are after all locals to the communities under threat. How do you safely push around or arrest guys with rifles that don't want to comply?
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IMO, Biden and his administration do their best to ignore illegal immigration and have tried (at least in the past) to claim they are doing something. If Abbott forces the Biden Admin to take forceful action to OPEN the border, it is a win-win for Abbott, especially in an election year. Even if Abbott backs off after that, it is still a win.
This.
If Biden federalizes the TXNG, or sends AD troops down there to open the border in this age of citizen reporter and viral video there's no chance he, or any other Democrat, wins the White House this year, and it might actually force the House to finish those articles of impeachment.
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. . . How do you safely push around or arrest guys with rifles that don't want to comply?
SO FAR, I haven't seen news footage of armed NG troops on the border . . . and if they WERE armed, I don't know if they were issued ammo. (I'm not saying they're unarmed, I'm just saying I haven't seen news footage showing armed NG troops.)
A long time ago when some places were calling up the NG for riot duty, ammo often wasn't issued. (Kent State being an exception.) So NG troops and reservists who'd been called up and issued rifles with no ammo often brought their own, much to the dismay of the leadership.
In any case, I DO NOT foresee gunfire breaking out between Fed and State personnel. Lawsuits and such, but we're NOT going to have another Fort Sumpter incident.
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At this point, what difference does it really make?
There is already such a huge number of immigrants (legal and illegal) in the country that it will skew elections to Left for years, once they or their kids start voting.
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In any case, I DO NOT foresee gunfire breaking out between Fed and State personnel. Lawsuits and such, but we're NOT going to have another Fort Sumpter incident.
I hopefully think you're right. I mean, the majority of BP agents (even non-DC management) down there don't really want to follow Biden's orders. If it came to fellow citizens shooting at each other, I think the BP would stand down from any orders that would result in armed conflict, and I don't think any TXNG soldiers want to shoot BP officers.
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This.
If Biden federalizes the TXNG, or sends AD troops down there to open the border in this age of citizen reporter and viral video there's no chance he, or any other Democrat, wins the White House this year, and it might actually force the House to finish those meaningless articles of impeachment.
FTFY
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SO FAR, I haven't seen news footage of armed NG troops on the border . . . and if they WERE armed, I don't know if they were issued ammo. (I'm not saying they're unarmed, I'm just saying I haven't seen news footage showing armed NG troops.)
Plenty of news storys showing those Guardsman have weapons. Here are two:
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/01/21/what-branch-of-government-is-really-responsible-for-the-border-crisis/72288833007/
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/01/slatest-news-politics-newsletter-texas-border-supreme-court.html
Image search "TX NG at Border 2024" for as many as you'd care to find.
As far as Force Protection Ammo, I have a good idea how much is out there, but it's not really appropriate to go into that publicly, except to say that when the .mil is moving automatic weapons around, even in CONUS, AR 190-11 requires armed guards for the AA&E.
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Several more Governors have come out in support of Texas.
https://twitchy.com/samj/2024/01/25/youngkin-va-stands-with-texas-n2392151
At this point, "stand with Texas" is just talk, but I'm curious: If Biden federalizes TXNG, could Youngkin, for example, order his NG to Texas (obviously with Abbott's permission) to take over TXNG border security? Certainly Biden could then just federalize Virginia NG, but it sure would look bad if the President federalized NG after NG.
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. . . As far as Force Protection Ammo, I have a good idea how much is out there, but it's not really appropriate to go into that publicly, except to say that when the .mil is moving automatic weapons around, even in CONUS, AR 190-11 requires armed guards for the AA&E.
A colleague was an MP in the (peacetime) military. He sometimes picked up or dropped off base mail at the post office. When transporting mail off base, he was required to be armed, and issued a 1911 and FIVE (5) rounds of ammo. These were counted going out, and counted upon his return.
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Lots of Civil War talk on the internet
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Several more Governors have come out in support of Texas.
https://twitchy.com/samj/2024/01/25/youngkin-va-stands-with-texas-n2392151
At this point, "stand with Texas" is just talk, but I'm curious: If Biden federalizes TXNG, could Youngkin, for example, order his NG to Texas (obviously with Abbott's permission) to take over TXNG border security? Certainly Biden could then just federalize Virginia NG, but it sure would look bad if the President federalized NG after NG.
Parts of the MO NG has been down there helping the state since October and I'm sure that several other states already have troops on the border.
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I haven't heard the specifics, but apparently Biden gave Texas 24 hours to comply, or else. Abbott apparently said he didn't need 24 hours. I guess don't write checks your ass can't cash, Brandon.
Current list of states standing with Texas (whatever "standing" ends up meaning):
Updated list of states announcing they stand w/ Texas in border dispute w/ federal government.
Florida
Virginia
Georgia
North Dakota
South Dakota
Tennessee
Alabama
Montana
Idaho
Utah
West Virginia
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Louisiana
Several of these states have also previously sent physical help. State troopers, etc.
Edit: Looks like a bunch more jumped on since the first list came out. I count 21.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEtPVS4WUAATd08?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Looks like 27 states now. Brandon probably shouldn't have made an ultimatum. Or he should have fired Mayorkis before it got this far. I would say the border czar as well, but oh well.
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25 GOP governors issue a joint statement supporting Texas:
https://www.rga.org/republican-governors-ban-together-issue-joint-statement-supporting-texas-constitutional-right-self-defense/
Yes, just talk. For now.
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25 GOP governors issue a joint statement supporting Texas:
https://www.rga.org/republican-governors-ban-together-issue-joint-statement-supporting-texas-constitutional-right-self-defense/
Yes, just talk. For now.
I just checked the main pages of the big MSM websites. Strangely, now that it's more than just Texas, the entire subject has disappeared. CNN has something about Trump kiboshing an immigration agreement. MSNBC is nearly 100% anti-Trump stories. Even Fox only has one story on it. Seems like half the states in the country in rebellion mode would get more MSM attention.
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It's all Trump's fault from guess who
Mitt Romney: “I think the border is a very important issue for Donald Trump. And the fact that he would communicate to Republican senators and congresspeople that he doesn't want us to solve the border problem because he wants to blame Biden for it is is really appalling." pic.twitter.com/L1LJex10JY
— Manu Raju (@mkraju) January 25, 2024
https://twitchy.com/brettt/2024/01/25/sen-mitt-romney-lays-the-border-crisis-at-donald-trumps-feet-n2392179
And on that note
Katie Couric tells Vice President Harris she's 'not in charge of the border'
Harris said the GOP didn't want to fix the border because they wanted to 'run on it'
https://www.foxnews.com/media/katie-couric-tells-vice-president-harris-shes-not-in-charge-border
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So it all comes down to who pays for what huh.
In the end though they can talk all the legalese and technicalities that they want but the elephant in the room is that the federal government is not only in complete dereliction of duties but is actively breaking laws, and if you want to go further to the huge beached whale in the room you might say that the federal government is intentionally and strategically betraying the sovereignty of the country and setting fire to the fabric of the nation by orchestrating a foreign invasion. There is a point where domestic authorities become domestic enemies, it all depends on who is daring enough to call a spade a spade. “In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
Well put !
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This.
If Biden federalizes the TXNG, or sends AD troops down there to open the border in this age of citizen reporter and viral video there's no chance he, or any other Democrat, wins the White House this year, and it might actually force the House to finish those articles of impeachment.
If the election were honest, I would agree with you. I no longer believe that to be true. :facepalm:
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEugZHxW8AAft7p?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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MSNBC is nearly 100% anti-Trump stories.
... and has been since 2016.
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. . . MSNBC is nearly 100% anti-Trump stories . . .
Hannity on FOX has been referring to that network as MSDNC for quite a while. I actually came up with that moniker myself before I heard Hannity use it on TV, and I'm pretty sure others did too. It fits.
Most of the legacy media abandoned even the pretense of impartial or fair coverage back in the Clinton days.
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... and has been since 2016.
And before that and to this day they have on the air orgasms every time Obama says something which got [barf] real fast.
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https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2024/01/26/ca-supreme-court-n79795
Needless to say, though, a lot of people on the left–which includes the vast majority of anti-gunners–are celebrating the Supreme Court right now. They love it, even if they don’t actually understand what the Court actually said.
And yet, while they seem all about the rule of law and think Texas replacing the razor wire is ignoring the Court–at least in spirit, as they see it–they routinely and really ignore the Court on guns. Especially California.
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Needless to say, though, a lot of people on the left–which includes the vast majority of anti-gunners–are celebrating the Supreme Court right now. They love it, even if they don’t actually understand what the Court actually said.
And yet, while they seem all about the rule of law and think Texas replacing the razor wire is ignoring the Court–at least in spirit, as they see it–they routinely and really ignore the Court on guns. Especially California.
My current favorite is the Idaho Reddit, where the 0.01% of radical left extremists in the state make up 99% of the posters. This morning, they were going off on how something needs to be done about our governor, who is thwarting the SC by signing on with Texas. The Supreme Court must be followed! It is the law of the land!
Other than that I would get 2,376 downvotes in five minutes, I really wanted to post about how at the same time, they are saying how something needs to be done about our governor because he is following the Supreme Court regarding abortion, and the SC must be thwarted!
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Biden Says Texas Has Till End Of Day To Remove Razor Wire Or Else Frinlerbagsuzzit Dorblelerg
https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-says-texas-has-till-end-of-day-to-remove-razor-wire-or-else-frinlerbagsuzzit-dorblelerg
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Biden Says Texas Has Till End Of Day To Remove Razor Wire Or Else Frinlerbagsuzzit Dorblelerg
https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-says-texas-has-till-end-of-day-to-remove-razor-wire-or-else-frinlerbagsuzzit-dorblelerg
It's funny because it's true!
(https://www.startpage.com/av/proxy-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcT5OssvR7zYFQWxeBarphz6V46N3jUdLuXHK8ewzEkl2PDJBhLl%26s&sp=1706312075Td61e145c87f8b9f49de5de011abfb4ef0e3558de681340431b6d160f86debbfc)
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Anyone that says the Supreme Court must be obeyed, should be reminded that they did away with Roe just like RBG said would happen because it was unconstitutional.
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Apparently there is some giant trucker's convoy ramping up that is heading for Texas to create a wall of trucks.
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(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x383/WLJohnson1/unnamed_jgjhg.png)
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OK, a court said the Feds can remove razor wire.
What about punji sticks? They didn't say anything about punji sticks, did they?
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https://www.muckraker.com/articles/united-states-invasion-route-exposed/
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https://www.muckraker.com/articles/united-states-invasion-route-exposed/
It is about what I suspected. There is big money pushing this immigration into the US.
Similar for Europe I imagine.
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The border bill is worse than the affordable healthcare act was.
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https://www.muckraker.com/articles/united-states-invasion-route-exposed/
The U.S. should withdraw from the United Nations, and kick them out of New York. For the U.N. to be aiding and abetting a mass invasion of a member nation is intolerable.
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Putting up Concertina wire is just for show. It doesn't even reach the minimum level of being considered border security. Particularly when those who cut through it and get caught get a free bus ride to a northern big city.
Uncontrolled mass immigration is war.
You will have to come to your own conclusion as to who is waging the war and against whom the war is being waged.
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The U.S. should withdraw from the United Nations, and kick them out of New York. For the U.N. to be aiding and abetting a mass invasion of a member nation is intolerable.
We should but we won’t of course
Make me dictator and I will send in the Rangers to clean that nest of vipers out.
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Putting up Concertina wire is just for show. It doesn't even reach the minimum level of being considered border security. Particularly when those who cut through it and get caught get a free bus ride to a northern big city.
Uncontrolled mass immigration is war.
You will have to come to your own conclusion as to who is waging the war and against whom the war is being waged.
It is war. Interview about cartel operations on the border
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7wJBvxzPMA
Non-MSM news coverage of Eagle Pass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G3s1y5As1E
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For climate's sake!
https://www.breitbart.com/border/2024/01/28/border-showdown-biden-stops-approval-of-lng-exports-in-retaliation-of-texas-defiance-says-land-commissioner/
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Apparently there is some giant trucker's convoy ramping up that is heading for Texas to create a wall of trucks.
Hmmm
Some are saying they're getting Patriot Front like vibes
Fed Bait? Convoy Calling Itself 'God's Army' Heading to Texas Border and Twitter Is Suspicious
https://twitchy.com/amy-curtis/2024/01/29/gods-army-tx-border-n2392276
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It is about what I suspected. There is big money pushing this immigration into the US.
Similar for Europe I imagine.
Honestly, the biggest money to be made from illegal immigration is at the Federal level. Social Security was always a ponzi scheme, and at a 1:1 replacement rate it is going to collapse. It requires closer to a 2:1 ratio of births, an ever increasing population level, to sustain it.
Illegals are a wonderful stopgap for that problem. They steal SSN's and pay taxes, but will not be able to claim SS benefits later on. Some do write EXEMPT on their paperwork, but some don't.
Sadly, they're an exploited underclass that no one acknowledges, stuck between a neighbor that doesn't want them around, and a home country overrun with corruption and narco violence. The conservatives should be more welcoming of them due to an old world catholic mindset, they're more likely to vote conservatively. A conservative reversal on the border wall problem, striving hard to filter true refugees from smugglers, would do wonders to boost conservative voter numbers and stem drug and human smuggling issues.
Same happens in Europe, but with North Africans and Arabs.
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The old saw "they're natural conservatives" hasn't really worked out. TPTB have been flooding the country since 1965 and by all measures we've lurched so hard to the left that the best we have is Donald Trump as the conservative standard bearer.
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https://americanmilitarynews.com/2024/01/18000-border-patrol-agents-support-texas-blast-biden-admin/
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The U.S. should withdraw from the United Nations, and kick them out of New York. For the U.N. to be aiding and abetting a mass invasion of a member nation is intolerable.
i appreciate your sentiment, but that's a bad idea. This ought to be self-evident. It's an information well. A polluted well, but at least we know what the pollutants are. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Aaaaand, importantly, we'd be giving up that veto power while the rest of the world is going lefty and emotional and statist and illogical and wokey-wonkey.
Terry, 230RN
Protecting our freedom is like swimming to shore in an ebb tide.