Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MechAg94 on June 21, 2018, 12:43:17 PM
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https://apnews.com/332abb7455cb4b60b2effc0852ff3c89/High-Court:-Online-shoppers-can-be-forced-to-pay-sales-tax
On Thursday, the Supreme Court agreed to overturn those decisions in a 5-4 ruling. The cases the court overturned said that if a business was shipping a customer’s purchase to a state where the business didn’t have a physical presence such as a warehouse or office, the business didn’t have to collect the state’s sales tax. Customers were generally responsible for paying the sales tax to the state themselves if they weren’t charged it, but most didn’t realize they owed it and few paid.
Looks like online shopping is going to get a bit more expensive.
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Time to set myself up as a non-profit and get a tax number.
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https://apnews.com/332abb7455cb4b60b2effc0852ff3c89/High-Court:-Online-shoppers-can-be-forced-to-pay-sales-tax
Looks like online shopping is going to get a bit more expensive.
Nope. It's going to get a LOT more exclusive.
This is the "kill all small online business in favor of Amazon/Walmart" decision.
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Nope. It's going to get a LOT more exclusive.
This is the "kill all small online business in favor of Amazon/Walmart" decision.
I really doubt that. There are still a lot of things that are easier to buy online and obscure parts will still be uneconomical to stock locally. All this does is add sales tax cost to it.
IMO, where it will hurt is online dealers that sell the same stuff that is available down the street. That is a small subset IMO.
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Nope. It's going to get a LOT more exclusive.
This is the "kill all small online business in favor of Amazon/Walmart" decision.
Kinda what I was thinking. I've been paying sales tax to Amazon for years now for "fulfilled by Amazon" stuff. It's the third party sellers where I have not yet (outside of CA) been paying any.
Amazon may not like it, but they can easily afford to monitor sales tax for transactions. The little mom and pop stores that use Amazon will likely have a tough time of it, unless Amazon adds something to their interface to do it for the mom and pops, which I'm sure Amazon will charge for. Which will be passed on to the customer.
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I really doubt that. There are still a lot of things that are easier to buy online and obscure parts will still be uneconomical to stock locally.
Which is where Amazon and WalMart fill in the gaps with their "sales partner" setups. Trouble is, once something proves to be profitable, they use their buying power to undercut the "partner" on their own damn site. We ran into it with some solar lighting and attic vent systems from a lesser-known manufacturer; after we'd sold a few on Amazon, paying their percentage for listing there, they suddenly turned up as a "fulfilled by Amazon" product at less than MAP, and roughly right at wholesale plus the percentage they were charging us. The manufacturer wouldn't comment on them being below MAP, though I'm sure it was a simple matter of Amazon promising and/or just flat out purchasing up front enough volume that they wouldn't make a fuss.
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Does this mean that an online retailer will have to file some sort of state sales tax payment/form to every state where they shipped a product to, every year?
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Does this mean that an online retailer will have to file some sort of state sales tax payment/form to every state where they shipped a product to, every year?
How it gets implemented is a question I didn't see answered.
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Does this mean that an online retailer will have to file some sort of state sales tax payment/form to every state where they shipped a product to, every year?
Probably, and I'd bet there are a few states that make it a royal PITA to either get or file those. Look for "not available in ____" to include some new states soon.
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What about local sales taxes?
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I believe it is just the state rate so about 5% here.
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There was a brief period when Amazon was adding OK sales tax, they charged state, county and city sales tax based on the city in my address even though I'm not in city jurisdiction and should not be subject to city sales taxes.
I inquired to Amazon but received no reply.
If it goes that way again it will become an issue.
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Buyers already pay sales tax locally. Sales tax on an online item that's cheaper to begin with means it's still cheaper than a brick & mortar store. Some will rebel simply out of principle. Most won't care. All they care about is that it's more convenient to click a button and have it show up on your doorstep than driving to the store to get it.
Brad
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In the olden days, having something shipped to you by water took so long it was as if you were paying a sails tax.
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There was a brief period when Amazon was adding OK sales tax, they charged state, county and city sales tax based on the city in my address even though I'm not in city jurisdiction and should not be subject to city sales taxes.
I inquired to Amazon but received no reply.
If it goes that way again it will become an issue.
I wondered about that local (municipal, township, etc.) tax, too. Would not the same Court logic apply there?
Too Also, the extra costs are not limited to the mere dollar amount of taxes, since the administration of assessing and disbursing the taxes to the local or state tax people would be rather large. (We've got several little townies and cities around here, e.g. Lakeside and Mountain View). And guess who would end up paying for that, pray tell, even though it was a hidden cost, like Amazon paying for the electricity to run its machines.
???
All in all, it kinda looks like it could be a real snake pit sooner or later, probably sooner.
Maybe it's time for all of us to apply for non-profit status to avoid any sales tax. :D
Terry
REFs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeside,_Colorado
(Formed in early 20th Century to avoid Denver liquor laws. Eight residents.)
http://www.townofmountainviewcolorado.org/
(Two blocks by six blocks.)
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In the olden days, having something shipped to you by water took so long it was as if you were paying a sails tax.
:facepalm:
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Buyers already pay sales tax locally. Sales tax on an online item that's cheaper to begin with means it's still cheaper than a brick & mortar store. Some will rebel simply out of principle. Most won't care. All they care about is that it's more convenient to click a button and have it show up on your doorstep than driving to the store to get it.
Brad
This. Whatever is cheapest or easiest will win.
I live in NH. We don't have sales tax, so this ruling won't affect purchasers in NH, but it may affect NH businesses that ship out-of-state. One of our Senators is bitching about this ruling, which I find hilarious because she is a flaming liberal and is usually in favor of more taxes.
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One of our Senators is bitching about this ruling, which I find hilarious because she is a flaming liberal and is usually in favor of more taxes.
If she got to play with this tax money she'd probably be for it.
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IMO, It would be much simpler for a store to pay sales tax in the state they are located rather than the state the customer is located in.
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IMO, It would be much simpler for a store to pay sales tax in the state they are located rather than the state the customer is located in.
Think about that for a second...
Brad
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Me thinks if the state the customer lived in charged 8% sales tax and the seller could collect, say, 5%, then the customer's state might be rather annoyed ....
otoh if the sellers state received the tax it wouldn't even matter, buyers pay the tax.
The argument sorta depends on how you parse it out.
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Me thinks if the state the customer lived in charged 8% sales tax and the seller could collect, say, 5%, then the customer's state might be rather annoyed ....
otoh if the sellers state received the tax it wouldn't even matter, buyers pay the tax.
The argument sorta depends on how you parse it out.
Then the state the customer lives in needs to lower their taxes to attract more online businesses.
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Then the state the customer lives in needs to lower their taxes to attract more online businesses.
Yea ....THAT'LL HAPPEN!!!!
On Sept 12, 2001 The town I live in raised its tax rate. State tax is 7% and the county added 1%. They raised it to make the total tax 9%. And note the date. Wonder why it got obscured by some other news?
And no one has done bupkiz to trim it back.
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Maybe states and territories should mandate one uniform sales tax within their jurisdictions.
And get local governments out of the habit or take away their ability to raise sales taxes. Need more revenue? Find another way.
And get away from all the special rules for this or that product or the ingredients therein or if it's cooked or not. Or whatever rules that complicate things.
That would reduce things to a very manageable 50+ jurisdictions.
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...
All in all, it kinda looks like it could be a real snake pit sooner or later, probably sooner.
...
Terry
Ayup.
If I had been on the Court, I'd have fought like hell to not grant cert despite the fact that 40 states had filed. Just let them negotiate it out on a state-by-state basis on their own. (As, e.g., in recognizing each others' carry permits.)
That's what I'd'a done, by golly, by cracky, by gum.
Terry, 230RN
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24 posts and I'm the first to say it:
Taxation is Theft.
;/ ;/ ;/ ;/
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Theftation is taxt!
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I"m not seeing how it constitutional to let a state force someone in another state to comply with their tax laws. What a mess this is going to be.
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It can be used in a national reciprocity case along with Obergefell.
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The only way this can be changed is through federal legislation. However, given our political betters insatiable thirst for tax dollars, I don't see any such change happening.
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I live in NH. We don't have sales tax, so this ruling won't affect purchasers in NH, but it may affect NH businesses that ship out-of-state. One of our Senators is bitching about this ruling, which I find hilarious because she is a flaming liberal and is usually in favor of more taxes.
What they need to do is push hard to get a ruling that the tax that applies is the seller's; it makes more sense that way anyway. If I go to mom's house out out of town and order a pizza, I still have to pay 8.25% tax (6.25 state and 2.0 city) instead of 6.25%, so it certainly appears the sale is considered to happen at Domino's in town. Why should that be different when the delivery crosses any other political boundary?
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^ What the heck are you trying to do, make sense?
KD5NRH for Supreme Court Justice !
Terry
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KD5NRH for Supreme Court Justice !
That could be entertaining.
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What they need to do is push hard to get a ruling that the tax that applies is the seller's; it makes more sense that way anyway. If I go to mom's house out out of town and order a pizza, I still have to pay 8.25% tax (6.25 state and 2.0 city) instead of 6.25%, so it certainly appears the sale is considered to happen at Domino's in town. Why should that be different when the delivery crosses any other political boundary?
I think this is how it ought to be applied.
I have no problem making all my purchases from Delaware, New Hampshire, Montana, and Oregon.
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What they need to do is push hard to get a ruling that the tax that applies is the seller's; it makes more sense that way anyway. If I go to mom's house out out of town and order a pizza, I still have to pay 8.25% tax (6.25 state and 2.0 city) instead of 6.25%, so it certainly appears the sale is considered to happen at Domino's in town. Why should that be different when the delivery crosses any other political boundary?
I think this is how it ought to be applied.
I have no problem making all my purchases from Delaware, New Hampshire, Montana, and Oregon.
And suddenly there's a run on PO boxes and licenses in low tax states, and CA heads back to court.
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I think this is how it ought to be applied.
I have no problem making all my purchases from Delaware, New Hampshire, Montana, and Oregon.
That would be an interesting disincentive to high taxes similar to people moving to low income tax states.
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http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2018/06/the-sales-tax-problem-for-small-businesses.html