Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jamie B on September 12, 2012, 07:33:17 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/many-questions-arise-anti-islam-filmmaker-203741932.html
"Nobody is anything but by an active American citizen," Klein told the Atlantic. "They're from Syria, Turkey, Pakistan, there are some that are from Egypt. Some are Copts but the vast majority are evangelical."
In an interview Tuesday with the AP, Klein said the filmmaker is concerned for family members who live in Egypt. Bacile declined to confirm that suggestion. Klein did not return phone messages to the AP on Wednesday.
Klein told the AP that he promised to help Bacile make the movie but warned him that "you're going to be the next Theo van Gogh." Van Gogh was a Dutch filmmaker killed by a Muslim extremist in 2004 after making a film that was perceived as insulting to Islam.
"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.
The last line of the quote is the corker for me.
What were these clowns thinking?
Knowing the ramifications of what they were doing, and then planning to hide behind US freedom of speech?
Am I missing something here?
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Knowing the ramifications of what they were doing, and then planning to hide behind US freedom of speech?
Am I missing something here?
I support it.
Not bear-baiting in general, but being able to make a film they feel strongly enough about to risk their own lives to say it.
Good on them. Never seen the movie or trailer, don't know if it's tripe or valuable. But if it's that important to them despite the risk, then they should do it.
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The last line of the quote is the corker for me.
What were these clowns thinking?
Knowing the ramifications of what they were doing, and then planning to hide behind US freedom of speech?
Am I missing something here?
What you're missing is that these people are not going to self-censor their own actions in fear of what the screaming beards will do any more than Tom Paine would limit his essays in Common Sense out of fear of what the Crown's actions would be.
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Jamie B has the right idea, cower in fear before the radicals and go out of your way to not insult them. Make sure you treat them with special consideration not afforded any other political/religious group.
If you are going to make fun of a religion pick on American Evangelicals or something.
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Well done or poorly done, the truth must out, especially when the "official" viewpoint--Islam is a "religion of peace" and to criticize it is bigoted--comes from fantasyland. The West has been operating out of intimidation, or in secret complicity, for centuries.
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Jamie B has the right idea, cower in fear before the radicals and go out of your way to not insult them. Make sure you treat them with special consideration not afforded any other political/religious group.
If you are going to make fun of a religion pick on American Evangelicals or something.
Oh Snap! :laugh:
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Well done or poorly done, the truth must out, especially when the "official" viewpoint--Islam is a "religion of peace" and to criticize it is bigoted--comes from fantasyland. The West has been operating out of intimidation, or in secret complicity, for centuries.
Peace? Here's something "peaceful" . . .
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-files.gather.com%2Fimages%2Fd655%2Fd132%2Fd744%2Fd224%2Fd96%2Ff3%2Ffull.jpg&hash=aca2827727060e73b5405faeb1a2da09de6d02e1)
Devil's in the definitions. When "peace" really means "submission" you get the above "peaceful" scene.
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Cue random islam centered explanations - wouldn't be the war or US intervention in their politics that fuels this crap. No, it's religious!
Belieiving that this is part of a thousand year struggle between religions and not the politics of today (ours and theirs) is beyond absurd.
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Jamie B has the right idea, cower in fear before the radicals and go out of your way to not insult them. Make sure you treat them with special consideration not afforded any other political/religious group.
If you are going to make fun of a religion pick on American Evangelicals or something.
This is not what I said. Stop being a clown.
Nowhere did I suggest that we bow down to any other country or religion.
I do not appreciate your snide remarks.
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They were not, at any stage, risking their own lives.
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You said that people should restrain their behavior or speech to prevent it from inflaming other people who instinctively or freely respond to words with violence. Oddly, I place the fault with the people who can't grasp "sticks & stones" level civility.
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Oh, I'm pretty sure some (or probably several) Mullahs have issued fatwah's for the heads of the filmmakers.
Yes, DS, you are absolutely correct. We never should have gone in and helped them develop their oil industry and then paid them for the privilege. That's why gas is 25¢ a gallon, and a guy in white uniform scrapes the dead bugs off my windshield.
Next time, we just go in a take it. Scrooem.
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The only comments I want our policritters to make in circumstances like this is unequivocal condemnation. The president getting on TV and making clear that our embassy security services have been ordered to shoot to kill in future breaches would help also.
Our government being mealy mouthed and apologetic about some obscure film plus insinuating that these thugs represent the majority of Muslims should be more insulting to Islam than the agitprop film.
I will not let them set the terms of debate or put limitations on liberty under the threat of them committing violence.
Any group could find a film/movie/song/book etc out there to be outraged or offended at if they look hard enough.
That is never an excuse for murder and mob action. There are no extenuating circumstances.
Focusing on the accuracy or inaccuracy or the impact of a film is not the place to focus.
There is no excuse.
Don't want snide? Don't attempt the moral equivalence gambit and/or appear to be providing moral cover to the thugs.
The film producers didn't make the thugs act like thugs.
Thugs do what thugs do.
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Damn, we should have told them back in season 1 that "Jersey Shore" shows pictures of Mohammed.....naked with Snooki.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And I wholeheartedly concur with Ron.
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Any group could find a film/movie/song/book etc out there to be outraged or offended at if they look hard enough.
That is never an excuse for murder and mob action. There are no extenuating circumstances.
I don't see Mormons trying to kill Trey Parker and Matt Stone.
Or Catholics.
Or Gingers.
Or Goth Kids.
Or Politicians.
... although, they did the "Super Best Friends" episode with Mohamed in it and no one threatened asplodeys. And they had Mohamed w/ Super Best Friends come back again briefly in a few other episodes, too. No asplodeys. Even had him in the title sequence for one season. Never understood how they escaped all that, despite poking the bear deliberately.
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Cue random islam centered explanations - wouldn't be the war or US intervention in their politics that fuels this crap. No, it's religious!
Belieiving that this is part of a thousand year struggle between religions and not the politics of today (ours and theirs) is beyond absurd.
Exactly! That's why the Muslims in Europe have peacefully assimilated and now are just one more European... oh, wait, nevermind.
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Oh, I'm pretty sure some (or probably several) Mullahs have issued fatwah's for the heads of the filmmakers.
Yes, DS, you are absolutely correct. We never should have gone in and helped them develop their oil industry and then paid them for the privilege. That's why gas is 25¢ a gallon, and a guy in white uniform scrapes the dead bugs off my windshield.
Next time, we just go in a take it. Scrooem.
Well, I wasn't thinking of oil so much as shipping captives to Ghaddafi to be tortured - there are probably a few anti-Ghaddafi fighters who are still upset that the US helped Ghaddafi catch their comrades and then handed them over to be tortured and killed.
But hey, complicity in torture pales in comparison to religion!
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Exactly! That's why the Muslims in Europe have peacefully assimilated and now are just one more European... oh, wait, nevermind.
Has an group of people ever assimilated this rapidly?
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Cue random islam centered explanations - wouldn't be the war or US intervention in their politics that fuels this crap. No, it's religious!
Belieiving that this is part of a thousand year struggle between religions and not the politics of today (ours and theirs) is beyond absurd.
Suddenly I feel a cool draft coming from Hades.
As to censoring the movie? No.
the real problem? A dozen MSG could have easily prevented these attacks. Of course, we'd be hearing about a hundred dead protesters. And that would warm my heart.
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Add some grenades and, Mother of God, flame-throwers and you have an effective response (not to mention the film at 11 that the media pervs fancy). I'm with you.
But the time for embassies and consulates in Indian territory may be over.
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I am really smelling a rat with this whole video situation.
Seems that some of the actors involved claim that much of the dialog was dubbed in after production.
They might be in self CYA mode, but this whole thing smells very bad to me.
I am going to let the press and pressure vet this information.
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And now our government is outing the filmmaker?
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And now our government is outing the filmmaker?
Duh. Everything is always someone else's fault.
Bad economy? Bush.
Riots and murder at the embassy? Filmmaker.
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The last line of the quote is the corker for me.
What were these clowns thinking?
Knowing the ramifications of what they were doing, and then planning to hide behind US freedom of speech?
Am I missing something here?
Yes, you are missing one of those silly 'coexist' bumberstickers on your car.
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What you're missing is that these people are not going to self-censor their own actions in fear of what the screaming beards will do any more than Tom Paine would limit his essays in Common Sense out of fear of what the Crown's actions would be.
Right on target. I support their actions and right to do so.
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Yes, you are missing one of those silly 'coexist' bumberstickers on your car.
I am not going to type what I am really thinking, but it involves camels and cross-hairs for a sticker....
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Just finished watching it on youtube.
The production value is not even to the level of what a high schooler might make.
I probably spent more time reading comments which had far greater entertainment value.
I can only a few reasons for muslims/obama blaming this movie for the embassy attacks:
A. muslims have within their ranks people who truly are bleeding idiot barbarians.
B. The obama admin wants to use this as an example to crack down on free speech.
C. Both A&B
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Yes, you are missing one of those silly 'coexist' bumberstickers on your car.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1389blog.com%2Fpix%2Fcoexist-firearm-gun-manufacturer-logo-thumb.png&hash=4d1c4deac2c6c7f78f85465c9d37b6524f809aa1)
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I don't see Mormons trying to kill Trey Parker and Matt Stone.
Or Catholics.
Or Gingers.
Or Goth Kids.
Or Politicians.
... although, they did the "Super Best Friends" episode with Mohamed in it and no one threatened asplodeys. And they had Mohamed w/ Super Best Friends come back again briefly in a few other episodes, too. No asplodeys. Even had him in the title sequence for one season. Never understood how they escaped all that, despite poking the bear deliberately.
Yeah, but they are equal opportunity bear pokers, and it doesn't take a genius to notice that their "insults" are actually valid critiques of painful reality; exposing the elephant in the room.
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I don't see Mormons trying to kill Trey Parker and Matt Stone.
Or Catholics.
Or Gingers.
Or Goth Kids.
Or Politicians.
Don't forget the worst of them all: Scientologists.
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Don't forget the worst of them all: Scientologists.
Scientologists are worse: they sic lawyers on their victims.
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Scientologists are worse: they sic lawyers on their victims.
And quit the show in a huff of indignation after spending years making fun of everyone else.
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Scientologists are worse: they sic lawyers on their victims.
Screaming beards may only kill you. Land sharks will drain your soul and leave the dry husk as a warning to others...
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I feel that we should have increased the security of the embassies in the case(s) where there was advance knowledge. It would have only made sense to increase security on the anniversary of 9-11 attack 11 years ago. That would have been a small cost. I think we should have defended our territory as best we could.
Jamie B, I read through your posts in this thread and can not find your opinion on the very subject you started a thread on.
I support free speech. True or false, the film maker had the right to make the movie. But he has to accept the consequences of exercising his free speech. The riots were definitely planned or at least the leaders planned them and the sheeple followed once the plan was implemented.
I have not seen the movie, but I have heard many discussions on TV and in the media. My personal opinion is that the movie is a piece to flush out American (and Western) sentiments on a topic that the makers already knew the sentiments of the radical Islamists. Ultimately, it comes down to who's side are you on? We move forward toward the religion based war.
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Islam has serious problems, but so do we. We need to be honest about our meddling and what lies behind it. That doesn't sanitize the realities of Islam and how consonant it is or isn't with our own national values, but it might create a basis for an honest if limited pragmatic relationship. We have good reasons not to like or trust each other, and that is not going away. If we want trouble we can continue doing what we are doing, but we'd better be ready to play it out to where it has to go.
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Took some time off today and was listening to NPR's the Dianne Reihm Show. She had representatives from the entire political spectrum: Left, Far Left, and YGTBSM Left.
Only one of the talking heads was in favor of free speech, period. All the rest blamed the film maker for the brutality of muslims and thought he ought to face legal sanction.
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Islam has serious problems, but so do we. We need to be honest about our meddling and what lies behind it. That doesn't sanitize the realities of Islam and how consonant it is or isn't with our own national values, but it might create a basis for an honest if limited pragmatic relationship. We have good reasons not to like or trust each other, and that is not going away. If we want trouble we can continue doing what we are doing, but we'd better be ready to play it out to where it has to go.
Few posts on APS have ever been as spot on as this.
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Islam has serious problems, but so do we. We need to be honest about our meddling and what lies behind it. That doesn't sanitize the realities of Islam and how consonant it is or isn't with our own national values, but it might create a basis for an honest if limited pragmatic relationship. We have good reasons not to like or trust each other, and that is not going away. If we want trouble we can continue doing what we are doing, but we'd better be ready to play it out to where it has to go.
Yes!
The problem is, the people who are insisting on the current round of meddling do not have a consistent set of geopolitical goals (that would be known as 'ideology', and that is BAAAAAAD), nor do they have the knowledge they pretend to have - yet they claim to possess unique 'expertise' under which they can direct forces and assets to control the lives of dozens of millions of people in the Middle East and elsewhere.
Which is why foreign policy experts are the second-worst type of people in the world.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1389blog.com%2Fpix%2Fcoexist-firearm-gun-manufacturer-logo-thumb.png&hash=4d1c4deac2c6c7f78f85465c9d37b6524f809aa1)
If that's a bumpersticker, I want one!
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Took some time off today and was listening to NPR's the Dianne Reihm Show. She had representatives from the entire political spectrum: Left, Far Left, and YGTBSM Left.
Only one of the talking heads was in favor of free speech, period. All the rest blamed the film maker for the brutality of muslims and thought he ought to face legal sanction.
Don't leave us hangin', which one was for free speech? I'll guess it was "YGTBSM" (Took me about 20 seconds to figure out the acronym. I'm slipping)
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And exactly how many theaters in Egypt and Libya (and elsewhere in the ME) was this movie playing in?
(I also don't see showing in any theaters anywhere in the Chicagoland area.)
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Irrelevant.
An Imam told us about it, so...RIOT!
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If that's a bumpersticker, I want one!
It is, I've seen it on a few cars around here.
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If that's a bumpersticker, I want one!
Per your request: =D =D =D =D
http://barber-marketing.com/bm1066-firearms-version-of-coexist-bumper-sticker/p/41C80342-93AE-4987-BD7B-F3312C397693&ProdNo=1&ProdName=1&Description=1
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It's not about the movie. It's not about our foreign policy. If we came home, zero military or diplomatic meddling and made nothing but Mohammed loves everyone movies the people behind this would invent a reason. It is about hate and submission. There are about 1 billion muslims. 40-100 million or so of them ascribe to radical BS. It is time the rest of them rooted out the cancer instead of providing aid and comfort, but apparently they like to be in the same bed.
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And exactly how many theaters in Egypt and Libya (and elsewhere in the ME) was this movie playing in?
(I also don't see showing in any theaters anywhere in the Chicagoland area.)
I heard sometime today that this "trailer" is actually bogus, someone made a really crappy overdub. I don't have a source yet but I'm curious about the validity of it.
Also to me these embassy attacks and protests all happening within hours of each other shows that it appears to be organized and has been planned for a while to be some anger protest over a film.
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A news story I read said that the .gov is looking for a way to charge the filmmaker. They're not sure what they can nail him for, but they want to make an example of him.
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I know that this will get me committed, but.....
I think that the entire thing was planned from front to back.
The film makers had planned with ME groups to get Islamic people fired up using the video.
US actors in the film said that their spoken lines were nowhere near as political as the final over-dubbing.
They would then hunker down behind the US 1A, and cause internal fighting as our politicl factions fought each other about 1A freedom vs. government interdiction.
The trailer was then dropped on Youtube, the the ME agitators then went to work translating and sharing the video amongst their factions.
I believe that the Youtube views were less than 10,000 right after this started.
All of these muslims are pissed about the video, and the view count is low?
I'll bet that they already had copies that began circulating within the ME.
Cripe, the original went up on Youtube in July!
All of these actions were planned and coordinated, culminating in attacks on US embassies throughout the ME.
My analysis is based upon the simplicity used by AQ for the 9/11 attacks.
Given our current weak economic condition, and our weak social order, as it is an election year, the timing was perfect.
AQ has been unable to get us domestically (underwear, shoes, etc), so they figured that hitting our hallowed ground overseas would work, and draw us out, and spread us very thin aroung the world.
Go ahead and call me stupid, or a conspiracy theorist, but I have never forgotten the simple, basic logic behind the 9/11 attacks.
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If it's a conspiracy it should have been a conspiracy that sank the Obama administration based on its benighted MENA policies.
But has it? Seems not...
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http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/150745/
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/09/anti-muslim-film-nakoula-basseley-innocence-muslims.html
THEY TOLD ME IF I VOTED FOR JOHN MCCAIN, POLITICALLY TROUBLESOME INDEPENDENT FILMMAKERS WOULD BE HARASSED BY THE AUTHORITIES — AND THEY WERE RIGHT! Alleged ‘Innocence of Muslims’ filmmaker taken in for interviewing by deputies.
This running gag isn’t as funny as it used to be. Imagine the uproar if we had a Republican in the White House — but it’s the absence of uproar over these tactics that is really revealing. It’s going to be really hard for the press and pundits who should be raising a stink about this, but aren’t, to play their “have you no decency?” games during a Republican Administration. They’ll try, of course, but they should be treated with the contempt they deserve. And that should start now, actually.
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http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/150745/
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/09/anti-muslim-film-nakoula-basseley-innocence-muslims.html
[CSD] He must have done something to warrant having his (pointless and unreasonable) civil rights stomped on. The government only ever goes after people who deserve it. [/CSD]
Yeah, this is gonna get interesting, in the Chinese curse sort of way.
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They are setting us up for the criminalization of speech, as they already have in other parts of the Anglosphere.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpjmedia.com%2Finstapundit%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2FOBAMAQUICKMEME.jpg&hash=4eac0f295979eb0be529cf0f99bc21563d4f1fca)
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They told me if I voted for McCain, brownshirts would roust politically troublesome people in the middle of the night.
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[CSD] He must have done something to warrant having his (pointless and unreasonable) civil rights stomped on. The government only ever goes after people who deserve it. [/CSD]
Yeah, this is gonna get interesting, in the Chinese curse sort of way.
less interesting than your fevered dreams. his legal troubles started well before this. and he plead guilty
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They told me if I voted for Ron Paul I was wasting my vote -- and that was in the Primaries
I missed the whole point; I thought we were just riffing on "they told me" :facepalm: (I hate it when I do that)
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not sure if he plead guilty to the meth charges. that probation condition about alias's is "problematic" for him
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-14/news/sns-rt-us-protests-californiabre88d05p-20120913_1_nakoula-basseley-nakoula-bank-fraud-anti-muslim-video
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Just finished watching it on youtube.
The production value is not even to the level of what a high schooler might make.
I probably spent more time reading comments which had far greater entertainment value.
I can only a few reasons for muslims/obama blaming this movie for the embassy attacks:
A. muslims have within their ranks people who truly are bleeding idiot barbarians.
B. The obama admin wants to use this as an example to crack down on free speech.
C. Both A&B
C.
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Where is the ACLU?
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/316902/wheres-aclu-mark-krikorian
You want to know why normal people feel nothing but loathing and contempt for the ACLU? Just look at their complete silence on this Mohammed-video business. Not a peep on their website, which is all war-on-women, get-out-the-vote Democratic-party talking points. This despite the fact that the FBI is being sent to hunt down the producers of material that is unquestionably protected by the First Amendment.
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http://www.quickmeme.com/Defend-the-Constitution/?upcoming
OMFG, some of them are actually quite good.
stay safe.
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why would the aclu intervene for a guy who pretty clearly violated his probation? hes lucky his po did't jugg him
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why would the aclu intervene for a guy who pretty clearly violated his probation? hes lucky his po did't jugg him
What does probation for ANY crime have to do with the first amendment and getting the ACLU to do what they say they're there for? Using computers to make and distribute the movie (potential probation violation), and the movie itself, are two completely different issues. Other than the fact that if he'd made a youtube video on how to bake his favorite cookie recipe, no one would be taking him in for violating his probation.
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What does probation for ANY crime have to do with the first amendment and getting the ACLU to do what they say they're there for? Using computers to make and distribute the movie (potential probation violation), and the movie itself, are two completely different issues. Other than the fact that if he'd made a youtube video on how to bake his favorite cookie recipe, no one would be taking him in for violating his probation.
has he been charged over the film? or are you trying to spin his meeting with his po into something more sinister? is he being held? no? as a parole he gives up many rights. he has options even then. decline parole
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or are you trying to spin his meeting with his po into something more sinister?
Yes, quite frankly, I am. As I mentioned, if it was a YouTube video on baking cookies, he wouldn't have been investigated by the FBI, nor would he have been brought in for parole violation questioning.
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What bothers me is apparently the DoJ evidently outted the film maker. Why is DoJ taking side and not defending the right of free speech? Just one more example of how the DoJ has evidently flipped allegiances. That one assumption creates a whole host of questions no one to date has the bollocks to answer.
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Yes, quite frankly, I am. As I mentioned, if it was a YouTube video on baking cookies, he wouldn't have been investigated by the FBI, nor would he have been brought in for parole violation questioning.
you not aware/ignoring the conditions of his parole? one of which he clearly broke?
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Yes, quite frankly, I am. As I mentioned, if it was a YouTube video on baking cookies, he wouldn't have been investigated by the FBI, nor would he have been brought in for parole violation questioning.
if he used an alias in direct conflict with a specific condition of his parole he could be and should be
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you not aware/ignoring the conditions of his parole? one of which he clearly broke?
Clear case of not seeing the forest for the trees.
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And how many (or what percentage) parolees get hauled in for violating their parole ?? Damn few, unless they interfere with the president's re-election campaign.
Forest, meet Tree.
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And how many (or what percentage) parolees get hauled in for violating their parole ?? Damn few, unless they interfere with the president's re-election campaign.
Forest, meet Tree.
the trick to not getting pulled in is to not draw attention to oneself. you know like making a movie thats deliberately designed to make a ruckus. using an alias in direct conflict with judges order is just stupid icing
and we seem to conveniently ignore the reality thats hes still free. one moght say he got preferential treatment. at least so far zomg!
more reality here don't open it you won't like it! http://reentrypolicy.org/Report/PartII/ChapterII-D/PolicyStatement25/ResearchHighlight25-1
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why would the aclu intervene for a guy who pretty clearly violated his probation? hes lucky his po did't jugg him
Because if GWB were in office and some probationary got the hairy eyeball for producing something politically awkward for GWB & they started investigating him due to that, the ACLU would be hollering "selective enforcement" from the rooftops.
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It amuses that amongst folk so concerned about their own liberty and infringements upon it so many are so free with the liberty of others. For me but not for thee.
~~cassandra and sara's daddy, on another topic. (http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=35695.msg716797#msg716797)
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CSD, here's the consistent problem with your arguments in all threads similar to this:
There's a Zombie attack in your town. Everybody is heading for the hills, abandoning their cars on the downtown streets. You're the meter maid still downtown putting tickets on all the abandoned vehicles because they're illegally parked.
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Was that your way of addressing his blatant violation?
The fact that so far he has not been violated?
or the fact that contrary to the gestalts consensus hes not in some suspicious minority if he does get violated?
You can be violated for quitting your job, even if its to take a better one. I know a guy violated for marrying the women he'd lived with for 20 years and had 3 kids with. He needed permission. You can be free white and 21 and get violated for 1 sip of beer. They take extra time to explain the details. So far rather than showing arbitrary enforcement ,r meth with a side of bank fraud has gotten if anything especially lenient treatment.how that can be spun to make him a martyr is mysterious.
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Well they only showed up as fast as they did to deport Obama's aunt.
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http://articles.boston.com/2012-09-15/nation/33843799_1_bank-fraud-probation-violation-case-probation-officer/2
so to recap
so far zero actual penalties have been imposed
though that seems likely to change
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And how many (or what percentage) parolees get hauled in for violating their parole ?? Damn few, unless they interfere with the president's re-election campaign.
Forest, meet Tree.
This.
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This.
you didn't look at the link? or did you heed my warning and not open it? the answer is 55%
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Just one question here. How many people have the FBI visit them in the middle of the night with the entire media in tow for a "parole violation?"
Exactly what jurisdiction does the FBI have here?
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or the fact that contrary to the gestalts consensus hes not in some suspicious minority if he does get violated?
You can be violated for quitting your job, even if its to take a better one. I know a guy violated for marrying the women he'd lived with for 20 years and had 3 kids with. He needed permission. You can be free white and 21 and get violated for 1 sip of beer. They take extra time to explain the details.
In your world "it's okay, we do this sort of thing to everybody" makes everything better?
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Just one question here. How many people have the FBI visit them in the middle of the night with the entire media in tow for a "parole violation?"
Exactly what jurisdiction does the FBI have here?
federal probation
and did the fbi show up in the middle of the night? or are we using artistic license try seeing what really happened
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In your world "it's okay, we do this sort of thing to everybody" makes everything better?
you don't have to take parole they outline the conditions and you agree to them? why do you hate personal choice and responsibility?
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why look he even gets an escort home after he came in to see the authorities theres that preferential treatment again
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/15/anti-muslim-filmmaker-reportedly-under-police-questioning-for-parole-violations/
so when did the fbi grab him in the middle of the night with the media again?
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awful lotta b/s being slung an observation? if you gotta sling b/s to support your position? you need to reevaluate your position.
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Just one question here. How many people have the FBI visit them in the middle of the night with the entire media in tow for a "parole violation?"
The media was there well before the "midnight visit" and it doesn't exactly sound like the authorities are unwelcome.
Nakoula reportedly requested deputies step up patrols around his home Wednesday after media descended on the area
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So, back to the amateur film maker...
Do we hold him accountable for causing the "spontaneous protests" ?
From all accounts I've heard there were no calls to action in the video, only insults against the prophet and the religion.
Are we ready to join some other nations and decide it's illegal to offend someone? Who gets to decide what's offensive? Will we start arresting political candidates if they criticize their opponent? Write a letter to the editor about something that might be controversial and go to jail?
Where do we draw the line?
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Here, I'll decide what's offensive. Overrunning sovereign territory and killing embassy staff is damned offensive. I'm not up for the glass parking lot treatment, but examples need to be made. Next embassy that is besieged like that let the Marines do what Marines do. Roast the perimeter with an AC-130 if necessary. Most powerful nation in the world. Not with this idiot at the helm;/
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So, back to the amateur film maker...
Do we hold him accountable for causing the "spontaneous protests" ?
From all accounts I've heard there were no calls to action in the video, only insults against the prophet and the religion.
Are we ready to join some other nations and decide it's illegal to offend someone? Who gets to decide what's offensive? Will we start arresting political candidates if they criticize their opponent? Write a letter to the editor about something that might be controversial and go to jail?
Where do we draw the line?
Hes good but he needs be careful if he travels internationally . 1st amendment is not international
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Hes good but he needs be careful if he travels internationally . 1st amendment is not international
No *expletive deleted*it captain obvious. =D
I'm seeing way too many people blaming the film maker for the deaths instead of the savages actually responsible. My one ultra-liberal friend wants to see the guy up on murder or accessory to murder charges over it. I see her friend's replies on Facebook with the same kind of mind set.
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Hes good but he needs be careful if he travels internationally . 1st amendment is not international
Islamic Jihadis are though.
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I know that this will get me committed, but.....
I think that the entire thing was planned from front to back.
The film makers had planned with ME groups to get Islamic people fired up using the video.
US actors in the film said that their spoken lines were nowhere near as political as the final over-dubbing.
They would then hunker down behind the US 1A, and cause internal fighting as our politicl factions fought each other about 1A freedom vs. government interdiction.
The trailer was then dropped on Youtube, the the ME agitators then went to work translating and sharing the video amongst their factions.
I believe that the Youtube views were less than 10,000 right after this started.
All of these muslims are pissed about the video, and the view count is low?
I'll bet that they already had copies that began circulating within the ME.
Cripe, the original went up on Youtube in July!
All of these actions were planned and coordinated, culminating in attacks on US embassies throughout the ME.
i have to admit that something along these lines were runnung through my head. i wonder if the department of justice is thinking the same?
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you didn't look at the link? or did you heed my warning and not open it? the answer is 55%
The percentage is irrelevant. What matters is the motive behind the inculpation.
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The percentage is irrelevant. What matters is the motive behind the inculpation.
wait the percentage is irrelevant?! that was the question posed by your fellow believers. now that the answer isn't what you want to hear its irrelevant? [popcorn] >:D :facepalm:
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It's irrelevant because the criminal record of the filmmaker is not the issue here, it's freedom of speech and political cause & effect. Is this going to be the front door to criminalizing all political "hate speech?" Looks like.
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It's irrelevant because the criminal record of the filmmaker is not the issue here, it's freedom of speech and political cause & effect. Is this going to be the front door to criminalizing all political "hate speech?" Looks like.
if your favorite meth maker was being popped for what he said that might have meaning but ironically hes not so its irrelevant
you got anything at all?
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if your favorite meth maker was being popped for what he said that might have meaning but ironically hes not so its irrelevant
you got anything at all?
If the administrations response to events was appropriate and didn't focus on the film then the attention from the authorities wouldn't seem so ominous.
Consider this, the administration and most of the media are falling on the wrong side of the free speech issue here by focusing on it and providing the thugs moral cover. If not by their actions by their rhetoric for sure. The attention by the authorities he is receiving seems to be a shot across the bow of any other rabble rousers who might decide to defame Allah and his prophet Mohamed.
A billion Muslims did not riot and cause mayhem because of this film. Why is the administration kowtowing to the extremist screaming beards?
If they are concerned about appearances, they might want to consider how their comments and actions regarding this film speak to their commitment to free speech.
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great points. and correctly you observe the admins job one is to make itself look good
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if your favorite meth maker was being popped for what he said that might have meaning but ironically hes not so its irrelevant
you got anything at all?
What I got is the awareness that this is an administration built on mendacity and manipulation. In a sane world most of them would resign ASAP and live in perpetual disgrace. I don't expect that to happen.
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and the bank fraud convict is relevant how?
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you didn't look at the link? or did you heed my warning and not open it? the answer is 55%
Do you back up documentation or did you pull that number out of your fourth point of contact?
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you didn't look at the link?
i don't blame ya a bit
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From what I have heard, almost no one has even seen this movie. Blaming all the attacks on it is idioitic.
As said during the last round of rage over cartoons, I think we should be publishing daily/weekly pictures and insults to Muhammed. Not to insult the Muslims, but to provide an object lesson on what exactly free speech is. Eventually, even they will get over it. They don't like us very much now anyway.
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Reading your link c&sd it would appear that the feds are making him prove his innocence as they have no hard evidence.
I still don't see where 55% came from, so I'm going with a 4th point of contact number.
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Reading your link c&sd it would appear that the feds are making him prove his innocence as they have no hard evidence.
I still don't see where 55% came from, so I'm going with a 4th point of contact number.
no hard evidence he made the film? used an alias? violated parole?
you mean other than him admitting it? what more you want?
you don't understand how parole works?
as to the 55% i posted a link to a study that sourced it to the doj study. sorry that contradicts your emotions about it. reality does that sometimes
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Good article worth the read:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/09/16/ayaan-hirsi-ali-on-the-islamists-final-stand.html
But that was nothing compared with what happened when I made a short film with Theo van Gogh (titled Submission) that drew attention to the direct link between the Quran and the plight of Muslim women. In revenge for this act of free thinking, Mohammed Bouyeri, a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan man, murdered van Gogh—shooting him eight times and stabbing him with two knives, one of which pinned a note to his body threatening the West, Jews, and me. As he was dying, my friend Theo reportedly asked his assailant, “Can’t we talk about this?” It’s a question that has haunted me ever since, often in bed at night. One side proposing a conversation; the other side thrusting a blade.
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But that was nothing compared with what happened when I made a short film with Theo van Gogh (titled Submission) that drew attention to the direct link between the Quran and the plight of Muslim women. In revenge for this act of free thinking, Mohammed Bouyeri, a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan man, murdered van Gogh—shooting him eight times and stabbing him with two knives, one of which pinned a note to his body threatening the West, Jews, and me. As he was dying, my friend Theo reportedly asked his assailant, “Can’t we talk about this?” It’s a question that has haunted me ever since, often in bed at night. One side proposing a conversation; the other side thrusting a blade.
I learned everything I needed to know a few years back...
I had a coworker who originated from Sudan, emigrated to and was educated in the Netherlands before immigrating into the US.
He was a very nice guy, I got along with him great, and most others got along with him well too.
When this incident came out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_teddy_bear_blasphemy_case , oneof my coworkers asked him what he thought of it. His reply was that the woman blasphemed the prophet and should be beheaded.
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C&sd reading is fundamental. It states (at the bottom) that 45% are returned to prison. With 1/3 having committed new crimes and the rest on technical violations.
It also points out after providing that number that:
1 No citation found for FN_probation-and-parole-in-the-united-states-1998! .
So it looks like they pulled that number out of their fourth point of contact.
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C&sd that says 45% violated parole, not 55%.
it says 45% completed successfully and to be honest i thought that was high but i guess a lotta folks get unsupervised so that might explain it. its difficult for "normal" or at least law abiding folks to comprehend
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I learned everything I needed to know a few years back...
I had a coworker who originated from Sudan, emigrated to and was educated in the Netherlands before immigrating into the US.
He was a very nice guy, I got along with him great, and most others got along with him well too.
When this incident came out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_teddy_bear_blasphemy_case , oneof my coworkers asked him what he thought of it. His reply was that the woman blasphemed the prophet and should be beheaded.
Irritated but not surprised by this.
Makes one wonder if they act just like a pre-programed drone when their religion kicks in.....
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So it looks like they pulled that number out of their fourth point of contact.
That's where all the best statistics originate. Often doesn't matter what the debate or which side of the issue. ;/
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That's where all the best statistics originate. Often doesn't matter what the debate or which side of the issue. ;/
goodness reading is fundamental the statistic is on the first line of the link i warned the gestalt they wouldn't like. its sourced to doj. if you can come up with anyone who wants tro pretend some majority of folks complete probation/parole please let me know. i'm gonna take a nap have a sandwich while you guys try
here its be kind to the true believers week
http://www.nij.gov/topics/courts/pretrial/research-meeting/austin.pdf
page 3
or here
http://www.appa-net.org/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?WebCode=VB_FAQ#1
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/america_basher_backfire_dKswUjW6LBShGc2uKrGyIM
Old Glory strikes back - a Pakistani man kicked the bucket from smoke inhalation.
The smoke was from burning American flags at a demonstration he was attending! =D
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goodness reading is fundamental the statistic is on the first line of the link i warned the gestalt they wouldn't like. its sourced to doj. if you can come up with anyone who wants tro pretend some majority of folks complete probation/parole please let me know. i'm gonna take a nap have a sandwich while you guys try
here its be kind to the true believers week
http://www.nij.gov/topics/courts/pretrial/research-meeting/austin.pdf
page 3
or here
http://www.appa-net.org/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?WebCode=VB_FAQ#1
Once again you are the master at posting things that do not matter
Tell me. Were it not for the film, would this man be in custody. Again, no obfuscation or deflection please. Yes or no?
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irony escapes you doesn't it?
reality too?
when other than your fevered dreams has he been in custody since he made parole?
do wax prolific on posting things that don't matter for us
assuming that no other instances of mr meth cook violating his parole exist he would not be facing parole violations. heck he coulda got away with his current oopsies if he had not gotten so public with it but the system relies and rightly so on the stupid to make it easy for the courts.
was that clear enough?
were it not for the film as far as i know he was in compliance. likely not but that will come out shortly i suspect
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Old Glory strikes back - a Pakistani man kicked the bucket from smoke inhalation.
The smoke was from burning American flags at a demonstration he was attending!
Win!
Not only will we kill you in your sleep on Christmas, but our flags themselves will kill you too. :laugh:
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Win!
Not only will we kill you in your sleep on Christmas, but our flags themselves will kill you too. :laugh:
Note to self:
Obtain patent for American flags made of Detcord for ME distribution.
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/america_basher_backfire_dKswUjW6LBShGc2uKrGyIM
Old Glory strikes back - a Pakistani man kicked the bucket from smoke inhalation.
The smoke was from burning American flags at a demonstration he was attending! =D
You know, I always thought it'd be amusing to slip an asbestos cloth flag to a few of these screaming beards and watch them have a fit as they tried in vain to burn it. :lol:
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i think something pyrotechnic as a coating might be fun to watch
'
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/america_basher_backfire_dKswUjW6LBShGc2uKrGyIM
Old Glory strikes back - a Pakistani man kicked the bucket from smoke inhalation.
The smoke was from burning American flags at a demonstration he was attending! =D
So outsourcing flag production to China is a good thing now? =D
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So, ignoring all the drivel but your last paragraph, the only one that answers the question: you agree then that he would not be in custody if it were not for hurting some Muslims feelings?
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rofl :facepalm:
you talk drivel? you of the zomg (fill in the fictional nonsense dujour here) crowd?
lets recap not arrested not in custody no midnite visit from fbi no charges at all yet and certainly none from film.
on the reality aside
multiple felon on parole breaks a very specific condition of his parole and goes to see his po as required as a condition of that parole. zomg the outrage!!! not
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al jones has competition and i think he was more worried about "adam against the man" [popcorn]
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http://articles.cnn.com/2012-09-17/world/world_anti-islam-filmmaker_1_hardcore-anti-islam-groups-historical-arabian-desert-adventure-dionne
he owes 3/4 mill? bet the movie was/is a scam to fleece folks to pay that debt. thats gonna really bite him in the butt with that tail hes drsgging. how do the feds do parole? does street time count? i know in va you can do 9 years 11 months on 10 years parole and violate in last month. be sent back to do the whole 10. no credit for street time. never done fed so i don't know about that one.
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yea he fleeced em
first rule of a con? tell the sucker what he wants to hear
and even better to sucker some bloggers first
they sucker the rest for ya
kinda like gunpal/gpal
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/media-for-christ-boss-joseph-nassralla-says-anti-muhammad-filmmaker-nakoula-basseley-nakoula-misled-him-while-pamela-gellers-blog-solicited-funds-for-anti-muhammad-film/
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http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/09/innocence-of-muslims-filmaker-duped-christian-charity-leader-says.html
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You know, there is and edit button. No need to keep padding your post count. Or did it go AWOL along with the shift key?
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Much more fun to pile on the drivel
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Oh.
Are we still talking about this filmmaker?
Is anyone operating still under the illusion that this stupid "movie" had anything at all to do with the attacks in the Middle East?
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Oh.
Are we still talking about this filmmaker?
Is anyone operating still under the illusion that this stupid "movie" had anything at all to do with the attacks in the Middle East?
Only some desperate folk in the obama camp
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Only some desperate folk in the obama camp
You mean the ones who are still patting each other on the back about how successful BHO has been in his plans to get along better with the Moslem world, as announced in his Cairo speech a few years ago?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5xgauT94Bw
Couple that with his success in cutting the deficit in half (as promised) and getting unemployment down to 5% (as also promised) and the closure of Gitmo (also promised) and you can just see what a POTUS he is!
(Now that the film maker has been taken into custody for a supposed parole violation, we'll see if BHO extradites him to Egypt for trial. At one time the very notion would be seen as preposterous, but now . . . ?)
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Couple that with his success in cutting the deficit in half (as promised) and getting unemployment down to 5% (as also promised) and the closure of Gitmo (also promised) and you can just see what a POTUS he is!
Was listening to an AM talk station yesterday, the host was claiming that if BHO had made the exact opposite decisions of the ones he has made during his presidency, he might be the greatest president ever and worthy of being put on Mt Rushmore. :laugh:
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Now that the film maker has been taken into custody for a supposed parole violation,
no well no if you discount the al jones world nut daily devotees and wannabes
http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/suspected-anti-islam-filmmaker-in-protective-police-custody