Author Topic: Barak Obama - Explained  (Read 20740 times)

The Rabbi

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2008, 09:37:19 PM »
The plural of anecdote is not evidence.  The fact that all your friends in corrections think one third of all US prisoners are illegals is irrelevant unless you have friends in every correction system in this country.
Equally crime existed before illegals came here.  If what you are saying is true then the fact there are more illegals here should mean there is more crime.  But there isn't.  Are illegals displacing criminal American citizens in the crime job market?  Are Americans becoming more law-abiding?
With record low unemployment the anti crowd cannot argue that illegals are stealing jobs from honest hard-working Americans.  Interestingly this is a pretty traditional argument I havent heard.
With lower crime numbers the anti crowd cannot argue that illegals have unleashed a crime wave.  Despite what you might read on these boards.
With lower expenditures for gov't services the anti crowd cannot argue that illegals are soaking up gov't benefits.  Welfare rolls have fallen in exactly those areas that have the highest concentration of illegals.
So instead of statistics the anti crowd has to argue anecdotally.  Pretty weak.
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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2008, 12:05:55 AM »
I thought we were discussing Obama!?
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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The Rabbi

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2008, 03:24:49 AM »
I thought we were discussing Obama!?
OK. Obama will constitute a one man crime wave if, g-d forbid, he's elected, stealing tax money that rightfully belongs to the people.  He will suck up excess gov't services. He will put at least one sort of honest hardworking American out of work.
Deport Obama in '08!
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longeyes

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2008, 07:11:35 AM »
Quote
In fact most of the so-called "gov't subsidy" that goes to illegals goes for public education for their kids.  Really not a bad bargain in the scheme of things.

It's a bad bargain because we are spending billions of dollars--I believe the State ed budget is now $66 billion a year--that does little but support what has become a corrupt educational system.  There isn't much "educating" going on, unless it's to promote diversity and multiculturalism.  Where is all the money going?  To prop up ever-increasing teacher salaries and, even worse, the hordes of "administrators" whose work tasks can't be identied, much less justified.  And, oh yeah, there are some construction companies, well-connected to the mayor and other poliiticos, who are becoming very, very rich building schools.  It's a nice racket if you can get in on it.  How is it being financed?  Massive taxpayer debt.  All that will come to roost.  One of these days California will no longer be able to borrow--then what?  Look for Schwarzenegger's State of the State message to have broad predictive relevance, both inside and beyond California.
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Scout26

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2008, 07:17:08 AM »
The dirty little secret of Obama's campaign is the backing and support he gets from Mayor Daley's machine.  Very quietly......
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2008, 08:00:45 AM »
The dirty little secret of Obama's campaign is the backing and support he gets from Mayor Daley's machine.  Very quietly......
It worked for the Kennedy's.  I'd love to see an analysis of voting in Chicago districts after the general election.  Wonder how many "working stiffs" voted.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2008, 08:36:28 AM »
Sorry Rabbi, but your analysis is based on bad assumptions. Again: you tacitly assume that certain crimes are just going to be committed no matter what; the only difference according to you is who commits them - our own home-grown criminal element or illegals. Except there is no competition "in the workplace" for them, perhaps with the notable exception of drug trafficking and distribution. Just because more burglars and car jackers operate in the area does not displace others, because there is no shortage of homes to break in or cars to steal. If you import poverty and criminality, you will get resultant crime. Just because the total numbers have not changed is no indication, because you cannot prove that if the illegals were not here those numbers would not be even lower.

As far as anecdotal evidence goes, we are sadly reduced to exactly that state of information gathering. Interest groups out there cook the numbers the way they see fit, including our own government. A damaging report will not be released in the current atmosphere of blatant support of illegals by refusal to enforce laws. On top, there are plenty of groups like ACLU that will sew your skin off for publicizing reports like that or doing anything on the executive level. The common citizen is left to make his own conclusions based on the evidence he can gather the old-fashioned way. At least in SoCal, the evidence is extremely damning. Soon to come to a theater near you...

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2008, 09:44:00 AM »
OK, if what you say is true I have never known an illegal alien who committed a property or violent crime.
So therefore they don't do those things.
I have known several who were hard-working individuals.  So all of them must be like that.
Case closed.
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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2008, 10:15:12 AM »
Keep in mind the author wrote a hatchet bio of Mother Teresa.

Identity Crisis
There's something pathetic and embarrassing about our obsession with Barack Obama's race.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Jan. 7, 2008, at 12:04 PM ET

To put it squarely and bluntly, is it because he is or is it because he isn't? To phrase it another way, is it because of what he says or what he doesn't say? Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois is the current beneficiary of a tsunami of drool. He sometimes claims credit on behalf of all Americans regardless of race, color, creed, blah blah blah, though his recent speeches appear also to claim a victory for blackness while his supportersmost especially the white onessob happily that at last we can have an African-American chief executive.
Off to the side, snarling with barely concealed rage, are the Clinton machine-minders, who, having failed to ignite the same kind of identity excitement with an aging and resentful female, are perhaps wishing that they had made more of her errant husband having already been "our first black president."

Or perhaps not. Isn't there something pathetic and embarrassing about this emphasis on shade? And why is a man with a white mother considered to be "black," anyway? Is it for this that we fought so hard to get over Plessy v. Ferguson? Would we accept, if Obama's mother had also been Jewish, that he would therefore be the first Jewish president? The more that people claim Obama's mere identity to be a "breakthrough," the more they demonstrate that they have failed to emancipate themselves from the original categories of identity that acted as a fetter upon clear thought.

One can't exactly say that Sen. Obama himself panders to questions of skin color. One of the best chapters of his charming autobiography describes the moment when his black Republican opponent in the Illinois Senate raceAlan Keyesaccused him of possessing insufficient negritude because he wasn't the descendant of slaves! Obama's decision to be light-heartedand perhaps light-skinnedabout this was a milestone in itself. But are we not in danger of emulating Keyes' insane mistake every time we bang on about the senator's pigmentation? If you wanted a "black" president or vice president so much, you could long ago have turned out en masse for Angela Davisalso the first woman to be on a national ticketor for Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. So, why didn't you? Could it have been the politics?

Last week happened to be the week that the nation of Kenyabirthplace of Obama's fatherwas convulsed by a political war that contained ghastly overtones of violent and sadistic tribalism. It would sound as absurd to a Kenyan to hear praise for a black candidate as it would sound to most of my European readers to hear a recommendation of a "great white hope." A white visitor to Kenya might not be able to tell a Kikuyu from a Luo at a glance, but a Kenyan would have no such difficulty. The time is pretty much past, in our country, when a Polish-American would not vote for a candidate with a German name or when Sharks and Jets were at daggers drawn, but this is all because (to borrow from Ernest Renan's definition of a nation) people agreed to forget a lot of things as well as to remember a number of things. So, which are we doing presently?

Sen. Obama is a congregant of a church in Chicago called Trinity United Church of Christ. I recommend that you take a brisk tour of its Web site. Run by the sort of character that the press often guardedly describes as "flamboyant"a man calling himself the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.this bizarre outfit describes itself as "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian" and speaks of "a chosen people" whose nature we are allowed to assume is "Afrocentric." Trinity United sells creationist books and its home page includes a graphic link to a thing called Goodsearchthe name is surmounted with a halo in its logowhich announces cheerily that "Every time you search or shop online! Our Church earns money." Much or most of what Trinity United says is harmless and boring, rather like Gov. Mike Huckabee's idiotic belief that his own success in Iowa is comparable to the "miracle" of the loaves and fishes, and the site offers a volume called Bad Girls of the Bible: Exploring Women of Questionable Virtue, which I have added to my cart, but nobody who wants to be taken seriously can possibly be associated with such a substandard and shade-oriented place.

All this easy talk about being a "uniter" and not a "divider" is piffle if people are talking out of both sides of their mouths. I have been droning on for months about how Mitt Romney needs to answer questions about the flat-out racist background of his own church, and about how Huckabee has shown in public that he does not even understand the first thing about a theorythe crucial theory of evolution by natural selectionin which he claims not to believe. Many Democrats are with me on this, but they go completely quiet when Sen. Obama chooses to give his allegiance to a crackpot church with a decidedly ethnic character.

The unspoken agreement to concede the black community to the sway of the pulpit is itself a form of racist condescension.
The sickly canonization of Martin Luther King Jr. has led to a crude rewriting of history that obliterates the great black and white secularistsBayard Rustin, A. Philip Randolph, Walter Reutherwho actually organized the March on Washington. It has also allowed a free pass to any demagogue who can manage to get the word reverend in front of his name. The white voters who subconsciously make the allowance that black folks sure love to hear their preachers are not only patronizing their black brothers and sisters but also helping to empower white ministers or deacons who make the same pitch, from Jimmy Carter to Mike Huckabee. The Iowa caucuses of 2008 were not the end of our long national nightmare about race, but another stage in our protracted national nightmare of piety, "uplift," and deceptive optimistic windbaggery.


Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair and the author of God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.
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wooderson

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2008, 10:48:45 AM »
You are fond of large text and bold...

Quote
The dirty little secret of Obama's campaign is the backing and support he gets from Mayor Daley's machine.  Very quietly......
Ooooh, Mayor Daley's machine! Clearly a massive influence in national politics.

?
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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2008, 10:51:29 AM »
Quote
Sen. Obama is a congregant of a church in Chicago called Trinity United Church of Christ. I recommend that you take a brisk tour of its Web site. Run by the sort of character that the press often guardedly describes as "flamboyant"a man calling himself the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.this bizarre outfit describes itself as "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian" and speaks of "a chosen people" whose nature we are allowed to assume is "Afrocentric."

Right.  He's a racist with Islamic roots and a madrassa education.  Why the hell is he even being considered Presidential material?Huh??

Manedwolf

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2008, 11:09:12 AM »
You are fond of large text and bold...

Quote
The dirty little secret of Obama's campaign is the backing and support he gets from Mayor Daley's machine.  Very quietly......
Ooooh, Mayor Daley's machine! Clearly a massive influence in national politics.

?

You just have NO clue, do you?

Daley makes Boss Tweed look like a shoplifter. Illinois' governor is just his bootlicker. He would love to bring his corruption to a national scale.

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2008, 11:20:26 AM »
Daley's machine was enough to get Kennedy elected in 1960.

I think most people would have no problem voting for a Black man.  I know I wouldn't.  But the first Black man I vote for is sure not going to be Barak Obama.
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wooderson

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2008, 11:46:47 AM »
Different Daley, different era, Massachusetts Democrat vs. California Republican. Illinois went to Gore by 12% and Kerry by 11%. And in the event that Obama's running he gets the favored son bump. 'Daley's machine,' being incapable of tipping, say, Florida, is patently irrelevant.

Unless you're a conspiracy theorist (cough) who thinks that a large-city Mayor - even 'Boss Tweed III' - has the potential to hold absolute sway over the President. Come on, we're talking about political analysis that seriously floated the possibility of Daley being VP - why even listen to that?
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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2008, 12:26:18 PM »
You are fond of large text and bold...

The default font for quoted material is kinda tiny and some folks have complained they can not read it.  So, I put it in 12pt.

The bold face is what I thought interesting.
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roo_ster

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Scout26

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2008, 06:51:30 PM »
Wooderson,

I live here in Illinois, You don't understand the power that Daley and his cronies (e.g The Mob) have in Illinois.  Yes, he may not be able to influence the vote in Florida, but Money and Clout go a looooong way.  Just look how many Daleyites were in the Clinton White House (Rahm Emanuel, Bill Daley, etc....)

Our Governor owes his job to Richie.  He's gone out of his way to avoid offending any of Richie's boys (Emil Jones for example) but has gone after Mike Madigan like a starving pit bull on fresh piece of steak.

Quote
Different Daley, different era,
  Yep, the son has it down to a science.  His Father was just a piker compared to Richie.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Manedwolf

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2008, 06:53:27 PM »
Wooderson,

I live here in Illinois, You don't understand the power that Daley and his cronies (e.g The Mob) have in Illinois.  Yes, he may not be able to influence the vote in Florida, but Money and Clout go a looooong way.  Just look how many Daleyites were in the Clinton White House (Rahm Emanuel, Bill Daley, etc....)

Our Governor owes his job to Richie.  He's gone out of his way to avoid offending any of Richie's boys (Emil Jones for example) but has gone after Mike Madigan like a starving pit bull on fresh piece of steak.

Quote
Different Daley, different era,
  Yep, the son has it down to a science.  His Father was just a piker compared to Richie.

I know several people who live in the state, and they all say that Chicago was likely a lot less corrupt when Capone ran it.

wooderson

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2008, 06:58:38 PM »
Scout, I don't doubt Daley's influence in the state of Illinois - it's no different from the influence the mayor of New York City has over New York State (without getting into 'machine politics' or corruption - merely influence based on size).

What I'm saying is that it's completely irrelevant, except as background for Obama (if that). And that throwing out IL '60 is even more irrelevant, given that it's as solid-blue as solid-blue gets, even without someone from the state running.

As for Daleyites in the Clinton White House... I count two there. One of whom wasn't actually a Daleyite - Emanuel came up working with the national Democrats before he helped elect Dick Daley - and within a couple of years had bolted for the Clinton campaign.
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longeyes

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2008, 01:22:00 PM »
Quote
Right.  He's a racist with Islamic roots and a madrassa education.  Why the hell is he even being considered Presidential material??

He's being considered because the most powerful political movement in the world isn't Islamist jihadist, it's White Guilt.  It propels the Left everywhere.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2008, 01:24:35 PM »
I'd just heard the best simple explanation for Obama.

He's a Rorschach test.

Because he says nothing, he means something else to everyone who looks at him and is fooled. He's a projection of their own psyche, wants, needs, and politics, because he says nothing, but smiles and makes them hopeful.


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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2008, 01:26:48 PM »
Quote
He's being considered because the most powerful political movement in the world isn't Islamist jihadist, it's White Guilt.  It propels the Left everywhere.

I hadn't even thought of that.  He's the 'affirmative action' candidate. heh.

The Rabbi

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2008, 01:29:27 PM »
I'd just heard the best simple explanation for Obama.

He's a Rorschach test.

Because he says nothing, he means something else to everyone who looks at him and is fooled. He's a projection of their own psyche, wants, needs, and politics, because he says nothing, but smiles and makes them hopeful.


I could buy that if he hadn't announced.  But he has been running for how many months now?
A certain number of people will support him just because he's Black.
A certain number of people will support him just because he's not Hillary.
And I guess a certain number really believe he will "get beyond partisanship" although it boggles the mind that someone could actually buy that nonsense.
I still don't see his appeal.  His politics are left, maybe even more than Hillary's.  And his foreign policy makes me think of Ron Paul, but not as principled.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2008, 01:33:12 PM »
I believe it because I hear the answers people give when asked why they like him.

"Because he gives me hope."

"Because he'll change things."

But when pressed, they can never say WHAT he will do, or how or what he will change.

Just vague security-blanket concepts. That's it.

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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2008, 02:01:22 PM »
Makes sense I guess.  I had someone once tell me what a great president Bill Clinton was.  I asked what made him so great.  The answer was his policies.  I asked for more detail and couldn't get any.
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Re: Barak Obama - Explained
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2008, 02:09:00 PM »
The dirty little secret of Obama's campaign is the backing and support he gets from Mayor Daley's machine.  Very quietly......
It worked for the Kennedy's.  I'd love to see an analysis of voting in Chicago districts after the general election.  Wonder how many "working stiffs" voted.
From what I've heard about Chicago politics/elections, working stiffs aren't the only stiffs that are voting!