Wow. British police actually get some marbles...

[K Frame]

and kill a guy whom they suspected of being a bomber.

I thought all they did was yell "Stop, or I'll blow my whistle! If that doesn't work, I'll blow it even louder!"

[crt360]

Where did they get all those guns?  Or, do they have a special gun squad that they let out when the bad guys start blowing stuff up?

[K Frame]

The British police have special squads, called, IIRC, weapons squads.

Becoming a weapons-carrying officer is a long, difficult process.

I saw something some months ago that said that less than 2% of British police are authorized to carry guns, either full time or in special situations.

[Greg L]

The latest rumors I'm hearing is that because they were plain clothes with guns rather than part of the weapons squad (which is usually uniformed iirc) is that they were more than likely some of the gents from Hereford doing some domestic work.  Of course if that really is true, they will quickly be referred to as a plain clothes weapons squad so we will never know .

However it works out, wearing suspicious clothes, running from the police when told to stop, then crashing through security & heading to the subway is a very good way to end up dead these days.

[Waitone]

Don't know many of the details of the shoot but I heard the good guys put 5 in the head of the badguy.  Now comes the questions:  was the guy on the ground trying to detonate himself?  Or was he erect and the goodguys got him from a distance.

Headshots is a mark of the SAS.

[K Frame]

From what I was hearing, the new anti-suicide bomber squads that the British are putting together (not just SAS) are trained to shoot for the head as the only truly effective means of shutting down a suicide bomber.

[RevDisk]

This information is a couple hours old, so it might be incorrect.   The cops were in plaincloths.  They did not flash a badge, they flashed a gun.   The guy ran.   He tripped, they shot him in the torso multiple times while he was on the ground.

Maybe they had just cause, but if that's true, bad idea to shoot a suspected suicide bomber in the torso repeatedly.   I'd think that'd be obvious, but common sense isn't.

[BillBlank]

He was warned, he ran. He was tackled to the floor by two "officers", a third placed five rounds into his head as he was on the floor.

[rant]
Gentleman, we have a long history of dealing with the IRA in this manner, google gibralter and sas. Also northern Ireland and shoot to kill. British security services have always worked like this, they are just a touch more discreet than their american counterparts. You forget that us wussy brits have put up with this stuff since the seventies, financed in part by some of your countrymen.  So go easy on the disparaging tone ok? Our security forces are proffesional, experienced and well trained. You've only just joined the party, pre 2001 every one else had been dealing with terrorism for decades. I may sound a little bitter but when only last year a friend in the army air corp described what effect small arms fire from an armalite had on his helicopter as he was flying over armagh I think that there may still be people in the american Irish community who need a good kick up their collective backsides.  For years the fundraising activities of the PIRA were largely ignored by succesive administrations.  Funny how seeing the reality of terrorism live and in colour over breakfast changed that. [/rant]

On a goulishly funny note, as I was watching lunchtime news yesterday they had an eyewitness to the shooting on live over the phone. He described the guy running onto the train and being tackled to the floor and then shot five times. The news anchor then won the award for the years dumbest question. "So, is it possible he was killed then?". Reply was "What? They SHOT HIM FIVE TIMES IN THE HEAD, I THINK THATS LIKELY DON'T YOU?".

[Warbow]

From a story today:

Officials said the Friday shooting incident, which occurred about 10 a.m., began when the man emerged from a residence that was under surveillance in connection with the bombing investigation. He spotted the plainclothesmen who were following him and fled into the nearby Stockwell subway station, one stop from the Oval station that was the scene of one of Thursday's explosions.

[K Frame]

Stick a sock in your rant Bill.

I don't see any disparagment of the British in this thread.

[Guest]

British police said that a man shot dead by its officers the day before in the London Underground was not connected to the attempted suicide bombings here this week, and called his death a tragedy.

 He had neither a bomb nor any connection to any bombers.

[Guest]

...they were more than likely some of the gents from Hereford doing some domestic work.  ....

Who, exactly?

[Dannyboy]

...they were more than likely some of the gents from Hereford doing some domestic work.  ....

Who, exactly?

SAS.  Hereford is where their headquarters is located.

[Guest]

So, Greg L was implying that members of an elite military group shot the man? A  group higher-up than the police? Then the man was probably someone that knew too much about British government involvement in the bombings.

[Winston Smith]

Mercedes: Why would a person like that be taking the subway? Wouldnt that knowledge imply being a higher-up in some sort of government agency, replete with hush-money and baksheesh?

[duck hunt]

Guilty of being brown.

[Guest]

Mercedes: Why would a person like that be taking the subway? Wouldnt that knowledge imply being a higher-up in some sort of government agency, replete with hush-money and baksheesh?

Maybe he was a young patsy who was beginning to realilze the connection between the simultaneous mock drills (in which he or his friends were hired to participate) and the real bombings.

 My current working theory is that most, if not all, of the recent "terror" attacks are operations by governments, or their assets, designed to scare their own citizens into accepting world governance and more regulation, surveillance and taxation. Some assets can be unwitting. If they start to "catch on", they would have to be silenced.

[RevDisk]

My current working theory is that most, if not all, of the recent "terror" attacks are operations by governments, or their assets, designed to scare their own citizens into accepting world governance and more regulation, surveillance and taxation. Some assets can be unwitting. If they start to "catch on", they would have to be silenced.

Uhm, doubtful.   You give too much credit to the govt being able to keep its mouth shut.

[BillBlank]

Hey Mike, the title itself  is kind of a little bit of an implication that the british were lacking "marbles" for the last thirty years. Something that I feel is a little unjust to say given the job they have had to do in challenging circumstances. They are the "Rough Men" that Orwell spoke of. Some of those same gentleman resented being on the recieving end of munitions purchased in the states with money donated by your citizens under the noses and with the semingly tacit consent of your government. At that time, if any country needed to grow some marbles it was the US. A country that I love and and respect as the only true free nation on earth that however is not without its faults. I just thougfht I should balance your comment with a little historical perspective.

On topic though, that poor bugger that was shot should not have run. Guilty of being brown? Maybe.  Wearing a puffer jacket in hot weather and not stopping when challenged by armed police the day after such events is probably his only real offence. I find myself unable to be completely heartless about his demise no matter what role his stupidity played in it. A tragedy indeed.  If you were not aware, the reason that the officers behaved in this way is because under current anti terror legislation the chief constable can order his armed officers to exercise deadly force on a specific suspect or group if the armed officer feels that there is a risk to themselves or the public of a suicide bomb attack or the chief constable feels that in the balance of probability such a risk is likely. To all intents and purposes, a hunting licence and something that many armed officers were reportedly concerned would lead to events such as this.

The officers involved were special branch, the same bods who provide close protection to the PM and royal family etc.  and investigate crimes with national security implications.

Mercedes, interesting hypothesis, given that I would trust most of our politicians as far as I could throw them.  It could be construed as reminiscent of the burning of the reichs chancellory by the nazis but with more subtle finger pointing at the group we are meant to fear and hate. The majority of whom just happen to live on top of a lake of oil. Motive, means and opportunity are there.  The only hole I could pick in it would be that given the trouble government has organising a pissup in a brewery I would doubt their ability to operate such a complex conspiracy.

Still food for thought.

[Guest]

...Mercedes, interesting hypothesis, given that I would trust most of our politicians as far as I could throw them.  It could be construed as reminiscent of the burning of the reichs chancellory by the nazis but with more subtle finger pointing at the group we are meant to fear and hate. The majority of whom just happen to live on top of a lake of oil. Motive, means and opportunity are there.  The only hole I could pick in it would be that given the trouble government has organising a pissup in a brewery I would doubt their ability to operate such a complex conspiracy.

Still food for thought.

While it is common for citizens to criticise and joke about their rulers, the latter sure do accomplish a lot of mischief while we are yacking about their incompetance.

[The Rabbi]

Our security forces are proffesional, experienced and well trained

Your well-trained professional security forces shot an innocent man to death.  Nice work, lads.

I dont know but if a bunch of guys flashed guns I'd be running too.  Maybe he thought they were terrorists?

[Warbow]

My current working theory is that most, if not all, of the recent "terror" attacks are operations by governments, or their assets, designed to scare their own citizens into accepting world governance and more regulation, surveillance and taxation. Some assets can be unwitting. If they start to "catch on", they would have to be silenced.

Amazing.

I have a current working theory that the Earth's core is made of Havarti cheese. Yeah, my theory is based on ridiculousness, just like yours.

[BillBlank]

Armed police. Stop. Three words that would be enough to stop me bolting on a friday morning in a crowded london street. He left them no choice.  If they had not done so and he had a device strapped to his chest that he detonated on that train the officers would be lambasted for not shooting him when they had the chance.  I feel sorry for his family but that was not the smartest thing he could have done. Several other people, including one outside downing street have been detained by armed officers since the attacks. They didn't run, especially not into a tube station the day after four more attempted suicide bombings. They didn't get shot.  Place yourself in the position of those officers, would you risk the lives of tens of people?

Not Havarti, it's Feta.

[The Rabbi]

Plainclothes officers.  The police have already released three different versions as to what happened.  It is not at all clear that they issued a warning or even what that warning was or even that he heard or understood it.
Normally I'm pretty sympathetic to police in these circumstances but this one was too much.  The man's crime was 1) having dark skin and 2) dressing in an unusual fashion.
Nope.  This one is indefensible.  The lads sound like they could use a little training.

[Guest]

My current working theory is that most, if not all, of the recent "terror" attacks are operations by governments, or their assets, designed to scare their own citizens into accepting world governance and more regulation, surveillance and taxation. Some assets can be unwitting. If they start to "catch on", they would have to be silenced.

Amazing.

I have a current working theory that the Earth's core is made of Havarti cheese. Yeah, my theory is based on ridiculousness, just like yours.

In your opinion, who conducted the four simultaneous attacks in Britain?