Author Topic: Seasoned negotiators: did I do well or screw up?  (Read 1560 times)

Monkeyleg

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Seasoned negotiators: did I do well or screw up?
« on: July 22, 2005, 08:13:44 PM »
I'm a professional photographer, and have been for some 28 years. I thought my reputation was no longer worth anything, but was pleasantly surprised to hear that art directors at advertising agencies in my area still hold me in high regard, far higher than I thought.

Would that they should send me paying jobs, though. Wink

At any rate, I really want out of the business, which is why I started my website last year.

When I realized that the website would take longer to get paying subscribers, I picked up on a comment made from an assistant at an up-and-coming photo studio here in town. They had talked about hiring someone like me, someone with a proven record and contacts and reputation, to help boost their sales.

So far, so good. Early this year I sat down with the owner and everyone else who had the power to make decisions. They were hot to have me on staff. Very hot.

My offer was as follows: I would shoot for them for $500 a day. I proposed a standard rate for day-shooters who have little or no reputation at all. To put all this in perspective, I had been charging anywhere from four to ten times that much a day for my work when I was on my own.

What I asked for in exchange was a guarantee of five work days a month, whether they could sell me or not.

The reason I asked for so much less was that I expected their sales force--five sales reps--to be able to bring in work for me. In the interim, I wanted to continue to pursue my website.

Well, the marketplace has its own sets of rules. There's been practically no work for any studio in town for a couple of months. And almost no work for me.

The owner is concerned that he's paying me for not working. I can't blame him. He called it "welfare," and I certainly can't argue that point.

In the meantime, though, I've been cranking out new photos to attract new business, working on new looks that will attract even more business, and doing everything else I can to help this process move forward. The reaction to my new styles of photography have been overwhelming positive, to the point where the owners are thinking of spending the most money on marketing me, and putting their "established" photographers second.

Yesterday the owners and I had a lunch meeting about the lack of work. Their proposal was that I would not get a guaranteed $2500 a month. Instead, they set a new price structure: I will be paid $250 a day for creating portfolio photographs to bring in new business, and continue to be paid $500 a day for paying jobs. In other words, I  would need to spend nearly every day creating new photos during what is typically a dead time of year, and hope that there are some paying jobs as well. Doing new photos is easy; coming up with the ideas takes time (ask Oleg).

After walking out of that meeting, though, I just had the feeling that I'd under-priced myself. That I'd agreed to terms that, if everything works out well, I'll be getting far less than the no-name photographer who just shows up and shoots, and then goes home: no thought, no input, no creativety, no research required for him.

Today I found out that the studio's main assistant is making more than I am. Granted, he's working more hours, but he doesn't have the name recognition, the ability to bring in new business, or the ability to bring in jobs with the kind of budgets that I can. On top of that, he's a neophyte when it comes to professional photography. He's twenty years my younger, but I suspect he'll never reach my level.

When it comes to negotiating business deals, I could screw up a free cup of coffee. Given what I've mentioned above, did I do a really bad job? And, if so, how could I improve it in the future?

BTW, I don't like to mention specific dollar amounts, but in this case it seemed necessary. If I told you the dollar amounts that the "big guns" in Chicago, NYC, LA, Atlanta, Portland, and Seattle were making, you'd probably all rush out and try to become photograpahers. Wink

Thanks for any and all opinions.

The Rabbi

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Seasoned negotiators: did I do well or screw up?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2005, 06:43:58 PM »
What other people are or are not making is irrelevant.  What is relevant is: Are you getting out of the deal what you want?  Is it meeting your needs and is it the best deal you are going to get, given the circumstances?
If the answer is yes, then you've done fine.
If the answer is no then you'll need to figure out what the ideal solution would be and work towards that.
Plus, I presume you have some option for renegotiating if things arent working out.
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Monkeyleg

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Seasoned negotiators: did I do well or screw up?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2005, 06:50:31 PM »
Thanks for the reply, Rabbi.

Here's what's going on: the assistant photographer I mentioned is making $40K a year. That tells me that the studio is paying their most senior photographer somewhere between $60 and $70K a year.

My reputation, my contacts, and my skills are higher than their senior photographer.

To make what he's making, I'd need to shoot 120 full-day jobs per year, out of a possible 260 or so work days. Or 46% of the available days.

Their photographers aren't booked that often.

On top of that, their staff photographers get full health insurance, paid sick days, paid vacations, and all the other benefits. As a freelancer, I pay those "benie's" myself.

I appreciate the advice. If and when I'm getting more bookings than I have been, and bringing in more revenue, then I think it's time to go back to the table and renegotiate the per-day pay.

What really bugs me is that, ten or so years ago, I could generate sales without breaking a sweat. The work was out there, and all I needed to do was take some buyer to lunch or even just make a phone call.

How times have changed.

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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Seasoned negotiators: did I do well or screw up?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2005, 08:15:31 PM »
You and I have shared some thoughts on career pains in the past.
While their Sr. guy may make more, you have the latitude of not being tied down to the company (assuming that's a "bad thing" in this case?).
If they have come to the table to renegotiate having to pay you a guarantee, I'm guessing they're really smarting financially.  The contractors are the first to get cut, and the fact that rather than cut you, they simply proposed a way they could reduce the outlay, but keep you working and hopefully doing marketing materials for them is a HUGE testimony to the esteem that they have for you.  

In retrospect, a way to have leveraged the negotiation slightly better to your advantage would have been to agree to their terms given the present situation, but to ask for them to provide a "cookie" for you (payoff of some kind for you--higher rate, whatever) once business returns to a certain level, or once your marketing materials bring in new clients, etc...Quid pro Quo (this for that), and it never hurts to ask for a little more...the Columbo thing used as negotiating tactic "oh, just one more thing...what if _______, could we do ________?"

Just some stream of consciousness for you, bro.  
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Ben

itgoesboom

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Seasoned negotiators: did I do well or screw up?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2005, 08:17:19 PM »
Monkey,

First, you studio photographers get all the money.  Us sports guys are just considered "shutter monkeys" and are paid in beer.....

Anyways, I think you underpriced yourself as a studio photographer.  You should have agreed to their terms, but upped your day rate to $1k any jobs that they have for you.  

You are the big name for their company, the experienced photographer.  You are the one that is driving business and bringing clients in.  You are the one that can help the younger photographers learn the trade.  

The big problem in the industry right now really is the photographers who come out of college, or who just buy a digital body, and then give up their work for no pay, and undercut the pro's who actually do this for a living.

I.G.B.

Monkeyleg

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Seasoned negotiators: did I do well or screw up?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2005, 12:48:37 PM »
Thanks again for the replies. The idea of renogiating a higher level of pay is something I'm already mulling over, and here's why. The owners talked to me a couple days ago about running a two-page spread for me in the Workbook, which is an industry source book for photographers. A two-page ad runs about $6000. Originally they were going to run an ad for their established #1 photographer, but now they may not run an ad for him, just for my work. That tells me that they see more potential in my work.

The studio hasn't been doing well the last couple of months (nobody has), but it's owned by a company that has the dollars to underwrite everything.

There's no way, though, that I could get $1K a day. Here in Milwaukee, that's very close to--or even higher than--what most studios charge as their day rate, including this studio. However, the $500 a day is what relatively unknown freelancers get, so I don't think I'd be out of line in going for more money.

"The big problem in the industry right now really is the photographers who come out of college, or who just buy a digital body, and then give up their work for no pay, and undercut the pro's who actually do this for a living. "

I hear you on that one. That's been the case for several years. As convenient as digital is, it's ruined the market. Up until 1998 or so, business for me was so good that I could have bought an Ed Brown or two every year if I wanted to. When everything can be fixed in Photoshop, there's less call for expertise.

I've really worked hard over the last 28 years, but I've never worked so hard for so little money as I am now.