Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: zahc on July 10, 2013, 10:29:41 AM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/one-growers-grapes-of-wrath/2013/07/07/ebebcfd8-e380-11e2-80eb-3145e2994a55_story.html
If active attempts to kill the republic don't succeed, it will simply collapse from the accumulated weight of bureaucracy like this.
Horne, a raisin farmer, has been breaking the law for 11 solid years. He now owes the U.S. government at least $650,000 in unpaid fines. And 1.2 million pounds of unpaid raisins, roughly equal to his entire harvest for four years.
His crime? Horne defied one of the strangest arms of the federal bureaucracy — a farm program created to solve a problem during the Truman administration, and never turned off.
He said no to the national raisin reserve.
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At least he didn't run afoul of the Prune Preservation Program. ;/ :facepalm:
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Working for them would be a plum job.
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Working for them would be a plum job.
I shrivel in the presence of a dry wit.
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Raisin Hell
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This was a plump and juicy story.
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No clue how ANY court couldn't say "Uh, this is an obvious Fifth Amendment Violation". It'd be one thing if it was a tax.
But seriously, they have to turn over a third or half their crops to a committee essentially makes it disappear into thin air? Willing to bet a lot of bureaucrats got rich on graft in that committee. $65 mil, with the authority to blow it in virtually any way they wish? Shoot, I could think of a dozen ways to probably legally embezzle funds from that set up. Pay a second cousin $100k per month for hosting a web site. Have another cousin $200k to promote that web site. Donate several million tons to a non-profit run by a second cousin (earning $150k salary) who sells them to schools or prisons at cut rate prices. etc etc.
Now that is one seriously lucrative scam. Wish I found a deal that sweet. I know of a family that has a lock on the "economic development" agency for an entire state. Very very lucrative. Their job is essentially handing out grants. Extended family members' work places tend to get more grants.
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He now owes the U.S. government at least $650,000 in unpaid fines. And 1.2 million pounds of unpaid raisins, roughly equal to his entire harvest for four years.
The article says he took out the grape vines and planted nut trees in their place, so paying the 'raisin fee' is nigh impossible now.
$650,000 would build a really nice killdozer (now with climate controls!) along with a trailer to carry it to wherever its needed.
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So .gov simply TAKES a chunk of the farmer's crop, without any pretense of compensation? ???
I don't see how this passes Constitutional muster.
This reads like a story out of "The Onion" . . .
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The article says he took out the grape vines and planted nut trees in their place, so paying the 'raisin fee' is nigh impossible now.
$650,000 would build a really nice killdozer (now with climate controls!) along with a trailer to carry it to wherever its needed.
From the article:
“If I knew we were going to go through all this, I would have just pulled the grapes out and put in almond” trees, he said.
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From the article:
Ah, my bad reading comprehension.... I should have skimmed it a little more slowly. =|
Even if he does pay the 'raisin fee' it amounts to slave labor.
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Thanks for keeping us currant on this event.
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This is why every law should have a seven year sunset provision.
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This is why every law should have a seven year sunset provision.
This law should have died on the vine. :mad:
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Yeah, the use of this law has dried up.
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“I lost a lot of my land, following the rules,” said Eddie Wayne Albrecht, a raisin grower in nearby Del Rey, Calif. He handed over 47 percent of his crop to the reserve in 2003. And 30 percent in 2004. He lost so much money that his holdings shrank from 1,700 acres to 100.
:O
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The proof that we live in a (mostly) civilized society is that there are not killdozer like events on a daily basis.
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I think the raisin reserve is stupid, just learned about it tonight, but I have no sympathy for this guy if he goes broke from fines.
The law's been there his whole life. Ain't like it got sprung on him mid season. If he didn't like it he should have just stuck to grape production, wine making, almonds, or whatever. If he wanted to challenge the law in court (which I commend him for doing) he should have refused to surrender his crop for one year to gain standing and then gotten out. Instead he rode the profits of the artificially high prices created by the system he doesn't want to play with for 11 years. That's 10 too many.
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The law's been there his whole life. Ain't like it got sprung on him mid season. If he didn't like it he should have just stuck to grape production, wine making, almonds, or whatever. If he wanted to challenge the law in court (which I commend him for doing) he should have refused to surrender his crop for one year to gain standing and then gotten out. Instead he rode the profits of the artificially high prices created by the system he doesn't want to play with for 11 years. That's 10 too many.
Seriously. No.
If raisin farmers created their own price controls by forming a private price collusion club, people would be calling for their heads. In this case, the one farmer shouldn't be prosecuted, the entire organization should be prosecuted. Bad laws need to be ignored if not challenged.
Of course if .gov instituted "droit de seigneur" there would be people out there who would crucify those who didn't turn their wife or daughter over to the diseased local bureaucrat because 'the law is the law.'
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I don't have a problem with people completely ignoring stupid laws that shouldn't exist to begin with.
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I think the raisin reserve is stupid, just learned about it tonight, but I have no sympathy for this guy if he goes broke from fines.
The law's been there his whole life. Ain't like it got sprung on him mid season. If he didn't like it he should have just stuck to grape production, wine making, almonds, or whatever. If he wanted to challenge the law in court (which I commend him for doing) he should have refused to surrender his crop for one year to gain standing and then gotten out. Instead he rode the profits of the artificially high prices created by the system he doesn't want to play with for 11 years. That's 10 too many.
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
― H.L. Mencken
Just because a the government and a bunch of growers from 1949’s voted something in does not mean it's right. And the "high profits" were likely eaten away by the raisin theft, raising taxes, inflation, etc. In the 1950's, sure, folks were probably riding high as a hog on artificially inflated prices. Since the 90's, I doubt it.
A man should be able to raise whatever crop he wants with reasonable taxation, fair representation and without theft.
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This sounds more like feudalism then anything else. You have to give your master a percentage (arbitrarily set by said master), and they take that produce and use it enrich themselves by selling the raisins they stole from the growers. (That's the $65.4 million they blew last year.) If they paid the growers market price then I'd have no problem (well, yes I would.) However, then it would be simply another useless, wasteful .gov program.
This simply outright theft.
And it probably took 11 years for this to make it to the Supremes. Figure a couple years of non-compliance and then wending it's way through the courts. Yep, I could easily see 11 years. The wheels of justice turn slowly. Very, very, very slowly.
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Just because a the government and a bunch of growers from 1949’s voted something in does not mean it's right. And the "high profits" were likely eaten away by the raisin theft, raising taxes, inflation, etc. In the 1950's, sure, folks were probably riding high as a hog on artificially inflated prices. Since the 90's, I doubt it.
A man should be able to raise whatever crop he wants with reasonable taxation, fair representation and without theft.
Keep in mind that I never used "high profits" -- I just said that he profited from artificially high prices. Not knowing what the raisin industry is like he could have very well just been scraping along. Given that another raisin farmer near him, obeying the law, had to sell significant portions of his land I doubt the illicit farmer was riding high on the hog. I never meant to imply that he was getting rich by ignoring the law, but he was making more money by doing that.
And I do agree with your last paragraph: "A man should be able to raise whatever crop he wants with reasonable taxation, fair representation and without theft. "
You can make good money growing marijuana, but that's illegal. The feds will seize all of your crop if they find it. Is it morally wrong? Well, no, not to me. But it's illegal, so if you go into marijuana farming knowing that it's illegal you shouldn't be surprised when you get fined.
But, because the Feds seize every single crop they can find you get fabulous prices for it.
Same thing with raisins. Yes, you can grow them, but the Feds limit how much can be sold on the market so they demand that you surrender some of them. That keeps the prices where somebody, not sure who exactly, wants them. Ignoring the rules fetches you more money, just like with marijuana. The only real difference is with one crop they demand partial surrender and in another they demand total surrender.
And if somebody goes to jail after knowingly violating the agreed upon rules, even if they do harken from decades before, I won't really feel sorry for them.
My distaste for how this particular man handled it goes a little further. You don't grow raisins, you grow grapes. You have to process them a bit further to get to that raisin stage. That tells me that he, and every other raisin farmer, has seen some benefit in this government protection program since it has existed. If they didn't they'd have just sold the grapes. But they're all going through with one extra step to get into that protected market. And they may bitch and moan about how it works, but they jumped through an extra hurdle to get into that market.
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IIRC, commodity prices are regulated by the FDA to 1917 price levels. (Because of the manpower drain in WWI.)
And we're still there today, after adjusting for inflation.
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On the other hand, complaining about finally getting called on disobeying the law after that long seems like sour grapes...
(note this was obviously a set up for a raisin pun, not indicative of my actual position)
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The state points a gun at you, tells you to grow or not grow things?
Sounds to me it is okay to disobey at any time - on the 11th or 10th or 40th year.
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On the other hand, complaining about finally getting called on disobeying the law after that long seems like sour grapes...
Your dry humor will not fly here, buddy.