Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on September 04, 2019, 10:58:32 AM
-
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2749350
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9854098/diet-fizzy-drinks-increase-risk-heart-attack-deadly-stroke-death/
Let's hear it from the diet soda apologists.
-
I read a similar article yesterday, but it also threw in regular soda, which increased your risk of death from something else (I forget what).
-
I'm not surprised.
.
.
.
Of course, from all the studies I've read, if something doesn't give you heart disease, it gives you cancer. There is no other option.
-
...from my cold, dead, hands!
-
...from my cold, dead, hands!
Sooner rather than later, apparently.
-
Sooner rather than later, apparently.
Meh... :old:
-
Okay, so they established an association of soft drinks of any kind with increased mortality (not "Diet Soda increases your risk" as the title proclaims). We will accept that at face value as they seem to have done their due diligence and used reasonably sound methodologies with regard to data collection.
Unfortunately their finding are also a blanket statement lacking specificity. What are the stats of the controls vs. the study group? Averages for weight, height, gender, existing medical conditions, other health risks, etc? Did they establish a greater link with other extant variables such carbonation levels, flavoring agents, and colorants? Was there any attempt at analyzing the lifestyles and exercise habits of those more likely to consume soft drinks vs. those who didn't?
The whole think smacks of a "result in search of a study" mentality. The results given are so broadly generic they are meaningless in terms of scientific applicability. I want to see specifics.
Brad
-
Okay, so they established an association of soft drinks of any kind with increased mortality (not "Diet Soda increases your risk" as the title proclaims). We will accept that at face value as they seem to have done their due diligence and used reasonably sound methodologies with regard to data collection.
Unfortunately their finding are also a blanket statement lacking specificity. What are the stats of the controls vs. the study group? Averages for weight, height, gender, existing medical conditions, other health risks, etc? Did they establish a greater link with other extant variables such carbonation levels, flavoring agents, and colorants? Was there any attempt at analyzing the lifestyles and exercise habits of those more likely to consume soft drinks vs. those who didn't?
The whole think smacks of a "result in search of a study" mentality. The results given are so broadly generic they are meaningless in terms of scientific applicability. I want to see specifics.
Brad
This.
Could just be people drinking diet soda thinking they're compensating for all their other poor diet choices. Correlation not causation and all that.
I think that it's probably people getting huge 32 oz diet sodas, and using it to wash down more food faster than they'd otherwise consume, eating contest style. Whereas a heavier sugar soda would slow you down a bit. Although even there HFCS's "smoothness" rather than the more astringent bite of cane sugar probably also is a factor, and leads to higher and faster consumption too.
-
(not "Diet Soda increases your risk" as the title proclaims).
From the findings section:
Consumption of artificially sweetened soft drinks was positively associated with deaths from circulatory diseases
Note how this is consistent with the title: Diet soda increases your risk of heart attack and stroke
-
They identified a correlation with non-diet drinks, too. Emphasizing one rather than both is cherry-picking headline sensationalism. The verbiage may be "technically accurate" but the inference is patently misleading when taken in context.
Brad
-
Studies can be deceptive, and mass media reports on studies can be even more deceptive.
For years, I have taken a daily Vitamin E supplement, and for many years I also took a fish oil supplement for Omega-3. At a semi-annual checkup at the VA hospital, my doctor told me that I shouldn't take either of those. Among other things, she said that Vitamin E causes prostate cancer in men.
My doc was a nice woman, but that's not enough for me. After the appointment, I started doing some research. I found studies on Omega-3 were interrelated with studies of Vitamin E. Ultimately, I decided to stop taking the Omega-3 supplement (and I still have most of a large bottle, if anyone wants it). It was what I learned about Vitamin E that was the eye opener.
It turns out that most over-the-counter Vitamin E supplements are synthetic and are based on "D-Alpha tocopherol." And, by itself, D-Alpha tocopherol has been linked in some studies with prostate cancer. However ... not all Vitamin E is synthetic D-Alpha tocopherol. The same studies reported that Vitamin E, even synthetic Vitamin E, comprised of multiple forms of tocopherol, are NOT associated with elevated risk of prostate cancer. So, rather than discontinue taking Vitamin E, I switched to a slightly more expensive version that's compounded from mixed tocopherols.
In my view, the only benefit to reading a mass media report on a medical study is to let me know there was a study. If you want to actually know what the study said or concluded, you have to read the study. Don't believe the media version.
-
In my view, the only benefit to reading a mass media report on a medical study is to let me know there was a study. If you want to actually know what the study said or concluded, you have to read the study. Don't believe the media version.
Millcreek pretty much always posts URLs to peer reviewed literature when he posts medical stuff.
People can do whatever they want, but I think it's been pretty well proven by now that soda is not good for you. I know I certainly feel healthier and have way less stomach problems drinking it a couple of times a month instead of a couple of times a day, which I did for years.
-
Millcreek pretty much always posts URLs to peer reviewed literature when he posts medical stuff.
People can do whatever they want, but I think it's been pretty well proven by now that soda is not good for you. I know I certainly feel healthier and have way less stomach problems drinking it a couple of times a month instead of a couple of times a day, which I did for years.
BUUUUTTT IT'S DIEEEETTTTT!
-
Millcreek pretty much always posts URLs to peer reviewed literature when he posts medical stuff.
People can do whatever they want, but I think it's been pretty well proven by now that soda is not good for you. I know I certainly feel healthier and have way less stomach problems drinking it a couple of times a month instead of a couple of times a day, which I did for years.
I don't drink diet, but regular mostly in the mornings and lunch. However, I generally drink more water in the evening than I probably otherwise would to wash it down. I sleep better well hydrated.
-
The verbiage may be "technically accurate"
(https://i.imgur.com/gRk1uZm.gif)
-
Read about a similar study a year or so ago, with the stroke warning. It motivated me to give diet cola up, as I've got a bad family history of strokes. Went from 4-6 cans of Pepsi a day to 4-6 cans of Diet Pepsi to an occasional regular Pepsi and a whole lot of water. Developed a morning coffee habit for the caffeine. Even if the study is bogus, I'm likely better off.
-
I'm not debating that the study found a correlation. I accepted their results at face value. I'm pinging them hard on the scope and scale of their reported findings. A blanket correlation is not something you report as an end result. No self-respecting objective-minded researcher would dare publish something so broad except as a guiding element for further research to determine positively identifiable causal elements.
Brad
-
We are not built to intake that amount of artificial ingredients and sugar. Soda is indefensible as a regular part of anyone's diet, whether it's leaded or unleaded.
Both have been linked to obesity, chronic dehydration, early death, stroke...
It's *expletive deleted*ing garbage.
-
I thought it was established years ago that aspartame was inflammatory. Not surprising to see a study suggesting increased cardiovascular risk.
-
We are not built to intake that amount of artificial ingredients and sugar. Soda is indefensible as a regular part of anyone's diet, whether it's leaded or unleaded.
Both have been linked to obesity, chronic dehydration, early death, stroke...
It's *expletive deleted*ing garbage.
I didn't know they put lead in soda. [tinfoil]
-
An interesting voice of reason on such studies:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/upshot/diet-soda-health-myths.html
-
An interesting voice of reason on such studies:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/upshot/diet-soda-health-myths.html
100% of people that have died from cancer have consumed large quantities of dihydrogen monoxide over the course of their lifetime.
-
Diet soda has all of the benefits of HFCS/Sugar soda, plus chemicals!
-
I ran into an Inuit woman who had lost 100 lbs over a year. Her sole dietary change was stopping drinking coke.
-
Life increases your chances of heart attack and stroke!
I'm not going to apologize for diet soda, but I am going to say this... Over the past 20 years we've witnessed multiple instances of foods being demonized by well researched studies fueled by a complicit media hungry for sensationalist headlines over how you're going to die screaming...
Butter, eggs, milk in its various forms, chocolate, coffee and others...
Only to have MORE well researched studies go... well, wait a second, maybe (for instance) butter isn't Satan's Solid Loin Juice Harbinger of Death we made it out to be... but transfats ARE! YOU'LL DIE SCREAMING!
And so much of it is fueled by non medical people who don't know what the *expletive deleted*ck they're talking about...
My favorite stoopid panic monkey crap is aspertame... Why, don't you know it causes 472,297 ills, ranging from toenail fungus to lethal hypersonic diarrhea?
I've grown tired of it, and am more than a little amused by it.
I shall continue to drink diet sodas, but in moderation.
I shall continue to eat eggs, cheese, milk, etc., but in moderation.
And I shall continue to tell people who piously lecture me that my 3 or 4 diet sodas a week are going to kill me to *expletive deleted*ck off, because life is a death sentence, and no one gets out alive.
-
Diet soda has all of the benefits of HFCS/Sugar soda, plus chemicals!
You do realize that EVERYTHING you ingest is positively chock full of...
CHEMICALS!!!!!
You're obviously inferring synthetic chemicals, but not all natural chemicals are good for you either, and not all synthetic chemicals are harbingers of immediate death, despite what that pseudoscientific quack The Food Babe claims...
-
I drink 4 - 8 diet sodas a day. Yeah, yeah, I should drink water, and I've tried, but inevitably switch back to diet soda.
-
Is it the diet soda or the triple cheese burger with extra bacon and mayo and the super sized batter dipped fries that people tend to order the diet soda with?
-
Quit drinking all soda three years ago (fell off the bandwagon when Dad went to the hospital)
Gained massive amount of weight drinking water and eating (mostly) healthy.
Turns out I have a mass on my adrenal gland causing hypercortisolism. Diet soda and eating healthy didn't save me from that (or cause it)
Have now decided that my Diet Pepsi consumption or consuming anything "unhealthy" in some reasonable moderation because I enjoy it is better than denying myself and dying without enjoying the simple pleasures in life.
Quality over quantity and all that jazz. They can take their study and shove it. ;/