Author Topic: SRO?  (Read 4153 times)

280plus

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SRO?
« on: October 22, 2008, 06:19:36 AM »
Damn, it's gettin' crowded up there!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081022/wl_nm/us_india_moon_8

India chases China to moon with unmanned mission

  Bookmarks Print By S. Murari S. Murari – Wed Oct 22, 1:25 am ET Reuters – India's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) C-11 blasts off carrying India's first unmanned moon mission … SRIHARIKOTA, India (Reuters) – India launched its first unmanned moon mission on Wednesday following in the footsteps of rival China, as the emerging Asian power celebrated its space ambitions and scientific prowess.

Chandrayaan-1 (Moon vehicle), a cuboid spacecraft built by the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) blasted off from a southern Indian space center shortly after dawn in a boost for the country's ambitions to gain more global space business.

"What we have started is a remarkable journey," G. Madhavan Nair, chairman of ISRO, told reporters.

The operation is ostensibly about mapping the moon, but the mission comes on the heels of China's first space walk last month, when Chinese astronauts were feted as national heroes.

India does not want to fall behind in an Asian race to space that could have technological and military implications. There is disquiet in the West that China has military ambitions in space, with developments like anti-satellite missiles.

India's national television channels broadcast the countdown to the launch live. Some scientists thumped their chests, hugged each other and clapped as the rocket shot up into space.

Greeted with patriotism in the media, the launch appeared to have distracted India from an economic slowdown, collapsing stock prices and outbreaks of ethnic and religious violence.

Perhaps remarkably in a nation where hundreds of millions of people live in poverty and millions of children are malnourished, the cost of the mission has scarcely been questioned.

"Destination Moon ... Historic Day For India" blazed one TV channel on its screen.

Barring any technical failure, the spacecraft will reach the lunar orbit and spend two years scanning the moon for any evidence of water and precious metals.

A gadget called the Moon Impactor Probe will detach and land on the moon to kick up some dust, while instruments in the craft analyze the particles, ISRO says.

A principal objective is to look for Helium 3, an isotope which is very rare on earth but is sought to power nuclear fusion and could be a valuable source of energy in the future, some scientists believe.

It is thought to be more plentiful on the moon, but still rare and very difficult to extract.

India's project cost $79 million, considerably less than the Chinese and Japanese probes in 2007 and ISRO says the moon mission will pave the way for India to claim a bigger chunk of the global space business.

ISRO scientists visited temples to seek the blessings of Hindu gods before the launch, and afterwards some expressed relief that rain had held off until the rocket was in space.

"The rain gods have been kind to us," Madhavan said.

FROM NUCLEAR POWER TO SPACE POWER

For many proud Indians, the launch is another notch in the country's global ambitions. India recently signed a civil nuclear deal with the United States, making it a de facto nuclear power.

"I'm very proud," said Sunil Tambe, a taxi driver in Mumbai. "It means India can do these big projects and I think it will also benefit us because there will be more information and we can learn new things."

In April, India sent 10 satellites into orbit from a single rocket, and ISRO says it is plans more launches before a proposed manned mission to space and then onto Mars in four years time.

"With China forging ahead in the space field, India cannot afford to lag far behind," wrote security analyst Ajey Lele in The Indian Express.

ISRO is collaborating with a number of countries, including Israel on a project to carry an ultra-violet telescope in an Indian satellite within a year.

It is also building a tropical weather satellite with France, collaborating with Japan to improve disaster management from space, and developing a heavy lift satellite launcher, which it hopes to use to launch heavier satellites by 2010.

India has launched 10 remote sensing satellites since 1998, has several broadcast satellites in space to control 170 transponders and has also launched light-weight satellites for Belgium, Germany, Korea, Japan and France.

(Writing by Alistair Scrutton; Editing by Simon Denyer and Valerie Lee)
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stevelyn

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 07:24:23 AM »
The shuttle fleet will be out of commission before long and we're going to have to hitchike rides to the ISS with Russia.
NASA has no vision or long-term goals other than hoping to continue drawing a govt paycheck.

Guys like Bob Bigelow and Richard Branson are trying, but they aren't getting govt $$$ and govt is also standing in the way. They're also having to play catch up just to get the infrastructure to support missions let alone actually building the vehicle to get there. And they won't see one thin dime return until they have everything in place and can get a contract. In the meantime they just have to keep pouring money into it.

Looks like everyone is quickly catching up and leaving us behind.  =(
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HankB

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 10:47:44 AM »
. . . NASA has no vision or long-term goals other than hoping to continue drawing a govt paycheck. . . . Looks like everyone is quickly catching up and leaving us behind.  =(
Ah, but we've wasted frittered away invested about 5 - 7 trillion dollars in Great Society giveaway programs since the heady days of Apollo, and you can't even begin to list the benefits we've gotten from that.   :rolleyes:
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Manedwolf

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 10:57:05 AM »
NASA engineers have to reverse-engineer old Apollo hardware to try to figure out how we once did things. We could not go to the moon now. We've forgotten how.

In the meantime, China sees the dollar signs. There's helium-3 up there, and once fusion gets going, it will be worth a billion dollars a ton.

MechAg94

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 11:08:02 AM »
So will the non-believers believe the Indians when they take pictures of our flag and landers on the Moon?
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Gewehr98

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 01:46:00 PM »
I was trying to figure out why 280Plus titled a thread with the Sensitive Reconnaissance Operations acronym.   :O
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Scout26

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 02:06:17 PM »
I was trying to figure out why 280Plus titled a thread with the Sensitive Reconnaissance Operations acronym.   :O

Single Room Occupancy ??
Senior Reactor Operator ??
SRO Records ??

Ahhh.....Standing Room Only....

Now I get it.   :angel:
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for the motherland.

280plus

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 03:33:22 PM »
yes, I get it from my years of running music events. Good catch! LOL...
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Manedwolf

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 04:01:09 PM »
So will the non-believers believe the Indians when they take pictures of our flag and landers on the Moon?

You can go look through a number of university telescopes and see the lightside landing sites yourself. Descent stages, all of that. I can't understand the conspiracy theorists.

HankB

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 04:18:05 PM »
You can go look through a number of university telescopes and see the lightside landing sites yourself. Descent stages, all of that. I can't understand the conspiracy theorists.
Really? Any posted links?
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Manedwolf

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 04:26:36 PM »
Really? Any posted links?

Well, you can't see photos of details of the hardware, no. It's too small. Lasers can be bounced off the silica reflectors they left, though. The NASA orbiter going around the moon this year will photograph the sites in detail, though.

Here is a Japanese photograph of the 15 site. The white area is the dust blown around by the rocket.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 04:47:45 PM by Manedwolf »

RocketMan

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM »
That supposed picture of the moon is labeled "St. George".  Everyone knows St. George is in Utah.  Conspiracy, duh...   ;/




 =D
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FTA84

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2008, 10:54:17 AM »
a) Yes other nations are catching up....whatever that means.  Going to the moon (unmanned) is the same amount of 'catching' up as building a new tallest building (with faux top floors).  Frankly, we know we are the US and we don't need to go around proving how great we are.  It is called national modestity.  "Showing Off" is for countries that still need to prove themselves on the international stage.

b) NASA has not forgotten anything about going to the moon.  They just are not enthused because it is 'like so last year'.  It is like climbing mount Everest, you do it once, maybe twice but there is no point in doing it once a year. Their next mount Everest is mars and they are trying there, but that is much more difficult than unmanned missions to the moon.  Do you see any other countries (without US help) even near Mars or sending out Viking style crafts we put out in the 1970's?

c) NASA is actually pretty poorly funded compared to how it was funded back in the day.  NASA is makes ends meet by doing contracted work for private companies.  NASA's work is all around you in the guise of new technology sold to you by private companies.  Of the few goverment agencies, NASA has been so hard-hit by budget cuts that they actually are mildly efficent and actually bring in outside money.  They do more good for the country then say.....Welfare, Medicare, ect.






Manedwolf

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2008, 11:22:03 AM »
Quote
b) NASA has not forgotten anything about going to the moon.  They just are not enthused because it is 'like so last year'.  It is like climbing mount Everest, you do it once, maybe twice but there is no point in doing it once a year. Their next mount Everest is mars and they are trying there, but that is much more difficult than unmanned missions to the moon.  Do you see any other countries (without US help) even near Mars or sending out Viking style crafts we put out in the 1970's?

Oh really? They couldn't build a Saturn V anymore. The suppliers are gone, the engineers are gone, the tooling is gone.

They HAVE been inspecting Apollo hardware and heatshield composition from museum pieces to try to come up with something new and comparable.

NASA even destroyed Apollo blueprints, back when people wanting the corner office for their work on the new shuttle program didn't want any "old" stuff interfering with their rise to stardom.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 11:33:47 AM by Manedwolf »

FTA84

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2008, 11:23:17 AM »
Right. Because you've worked at NASA.....

MicroBalrog

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2008, 11:24:09 AM »
Does anybody realize there are 12 private entities working on unmanned moon missions?

TWELVE?
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Manedwolf

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2008, 11:29:49 AM »
Right. Because you've worked at NASA.....

Perhaps some of us follow this sort of thing, have subscriptions to magazines like Air & Space, and read interviews WITH NASA PEOPLE who have admitted all that?

Nah, just be belligerent, that's a better way to impress people, tough guy. ;)

FTA84

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2008, 11:32:50 AM »
You didn't get what I was saying

RaspberrySurprise

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2008, 12:30:47 PM »
Ah, but we've wasted frittered away invested about 5 - 7 trillion dollars in Great Society giveaway programs since the heady days of Apollo, and you can't even begin to list the benefits we've gotten from that.   :rolleyes:

Indeed you cannot list nothing.
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Gewehr98

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2008, 02:08:17 PM »
Ok, let's simmer down a notch or three.

NASA has nowhere near the budget they had during the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo days.

The brain trust from that era has indeed either retired or died.

My roommate in Florida around 1987 was a Saturn-era Range Rat - even back then he was bemoaning the fact that talent was departing the agency at an alarming rate, as NASA put all their eggs into the Space Shuttle basket.

However, amongst all this passion, people lose sight of some major factors in the whole scheme of things.

NASA has been enduring deep budget cuts since the Apollo missions, and even now are being pressured to put one of the two little Mars rovers to sleep to save $4 million, while other cuts impact the current Orion and Ares programs. 

A well-known effort by NASA to continue space exploration was called SFC, aka, "Smaller, Faster, Cheaper".  The two aforementioned Pathfinder rovers currently scurrying to-and-fro on the Martian landscape are part of that paradigm shift in NASA management.

Was the Saturn V an impressive piece of machinery?  Damn straight it was - but we cannot forget that the 1st stage F1 engines of that system were also 40 year-old technology, incredibly complex, expensive, single-use, and we don't need them now, anymore than we need a new batch of Edsels to hit the market.  A benefit of the end of the Cold War is that we have access to Russian liquid-fueled rocket engine technology, which is now the major player in NASA heavy-lift efforts as we return to the moon and beyond (Google the impressive "Rocketdyne RS-68").

From my days at Cape Canaveral AFS, working with NASA engineers and other top minds in that organization, the thing that always caught my eye was that NASA is constantly between a rock and a hard place, trying to produce the biggest bang for the buck.  Since that buck is doled out to them/taken from them at the whims of Congress, vs. private donations, they are at a disadvantage from the start.  This ain't a full-blown late 1960s Race to the Moon, and those heady days are long gone.   I'd wager the Shuttle will stay flying far longer than the originally-mandated 2010 end date. 
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280plus

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Re: SRO?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2008, 06:55:46 PM »
Quote
Shuttle will stay flying far longer than the originally-mandated 2010 end date. 
As long as there's still duck tape and velcro!  :laugh:
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