St Paul police in "wrong-door no-knock"

[Strings]

Not going to excerpt, but worth the read:

http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/10/st-paul-cops-shoot-dog-in-wrong-door-rai

Y'all will excuse me, but is this REALLY the price we're willing to pay in our "War on Drugs"? Children terrorized and denied their medication?

[brimic]

Well at least no one was killed this time

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

they left out the part about dad being convicted as a result of the raid and is currently doing time.  must be an oversight in article

[brimic]

they left out the part about dad being convicted as a result of the raid and is currently doing time.  must be an oversight in article

What part of the 4th amendment do you not understand?

"Even after learning that they were in the wrong house, the complaint states, the drug busters stayed in the Francos' home and kept searching it."

[AJ Dual]

BACA is going to have to start helping out kids traumatized by the police next... 


 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

What part of the 4th amendment do you not understand?

"Even after learning that they were in the wrong house, the complaint states, the drug busters stayed in the Francos' home and kept searching it."

i am a might leary of relying on the plaintiff for all my evidence
the more so when he has violent priors
ymmv

there was a most interesting ruling once that had to do with what was in effect mens rea on the part of the cops.  a court let stand the search since the cops didn't know the warrant was flawed  i'll seev if i can dig it up

[HankB]

they left out the part about dad being convicted as a result of the raid and is currently doing time.  must be an oversight in article

The linked article in the OP explicitly states that they found a .22 caliber pistol in the "basement bedroom of Gilbert Castillo" which they attributed to the head of the Franco household, Roberto Franco, who was then convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm.

Since .22 pistols aren't illegal to keep in your home in Minnesota, this suggests Franco was a "prohibited person" . . . e.g., already a convicted felon.

Still, reading about things like this, at least with a lawsuit going forward, they should be able to precisely identify the cops on the raid, which is good information to have and may be useful.

[brimic]

there was a most interesting ruling once that had to do with what was in effect mens rea on the part of the cops.  a court let stand the search since the cops didn't know the warrant was flawed  i'll seev if i can dig it up

I've heard of that, but what one judge might allow, another won't. Judges, like cops, are not infallible and are prone to overstepping the BOR.

[Jamie B]

they left out the part about dad being convicted as a result of the raid and is currently doing time.  must be an oversight in article

citation please.

[Fitz]

citation please.

It's in the linked article

"Plaintiff Roberto Franco was wrongfully convicted of the alleged offense and is currently incarcerated with the Minnesota Department of Corrections," the complaint states.

[Fitz]

So the jist of it appears to be, the basement was the bedroom of one guy, and they attributed the OWNERship of the pistol that was found there to the head of the household, who judging by the article is likely a prohibited person.


Of course, none of this should *expletive deleted*ing matter.

Once they found out they were in the wrong house, they should have immediately exited.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

sorry forgot this

http://www.doc.state.mn.us/publicviewer/Inmate.asp?OID=236813

[Fitz]

CSD, are you taking the position that, due to this guy's status as a convicted felon, he A.) forfeits protections against unreasonable and illegal searches and seizures and B.) can be held accountable for the possession of a pistol that was found in another person's bedroom?

[brimic]

sorry forgot this

http://www.doc.state.mn.us/publicviewer/Inmate.asp?OID=236813

So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Illegal search is illegal.

[Fitz]

So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Illegal search is illegal.

Remember, according to CSD, any illegal or over the top actions of the police are perfectly fine if CSD doesn't like the victim.


So, if he's a convicted felon, crotch rocket rider, or any other undesirable.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

CSD, are you taking the position that, due to this guy's status as a convicted felon, he A.) forfeits protections against unreasonable and illegal searches and seizures and B.) can be held accountable for the possession of a pistol that was found in another person's bedroom?

a?  no   but i do take his and his landsharks statement with a grain   or 2 of salt
b?  quite possibly   not sure about minn law  in particular that peculiar addendum that he was in possesion of a gun  (allegedly)" after a violent crime"


2) except as otherwise provided in clause (9), a person who has been convicted of, or adjudicated delinquent or convicted as an extended jurisdiction juvenile for committing, in this state or elsewhere, a crime of violence. For purposes of this section, crime of violence includes crimes in other states or jurisdictions which would have been crimes of violence as herein defined if they had been committed in this state;

The lifetime prohibition on possessing, receiving, shipping, or transporting firearms for persons convicted or adjudicated delinquent of a crime of violence in clause (2), applies only to offenders who are discharged from sentence or court supervision for a crime of violence on or after August 1, 1993.

For purposes of this section, "judicial determination" means a court proceeding pursuant to sections 253B.07 to 253B.09 or a comparable law from another state.


and i'm also curious that there was no lawyer/suit for so long.  hes been away almost a year and the event was a year before that

[RevDisk]

they left out the part about dad being convicted as a result of the raid and is currently doing time.  must be an oversight in article

I'm fairly sure this is a textbook definition of "fruit of the poisonous tree".  See Nardone v. US.

Now, there are exceptions to the Fruit argument in regards to illegally obtained evidence. One of those is good-faith exemption, see US v. Leon (468 U.S. 902) and Massachusetts v. Sheppard (468 U.S. 981), regarding reliance upon a defective search warrant if the police reasonably believed they were in the right. The second they admitted "Hey, we have the wrong address", they lost good-faith exemption because they then knew that the search warrant was invalid. Everything prior to the wrong address determination is probably ok to introduce to a court, under good faith, because they believed they were executing a valid warrant. If they found contraband before the determination, the guy is hosed. If they found contraband after the determination, it is to be tossed out. Anything else is contrary to SCOTUS case law.

Uhm, very straightforward, legally. Unless the guy has an idiot for a lawyer. 

It would get legally interesting if they used PC gathered from prior to the invalid warrant determination to go get a second warrant, I admit that gets above my legal knowledge. 

[brimic]

a?  no   but i do take his and his landsharks statement with a grain   or 2 of salt
b?  quite possibly   not sure about minn law  in particular that peculiar addendum that he was in possesion of a gun  (allegedly)" after a violent crime"


2) except as otherwise provided in clause (9), a person who has been convicted of, or adjudicated delinquent or convicted as an extended jurisdiction juvenile for committing, in this state or elsewhere, a crime of violence. For purposes of this section, crime of violence includes crimes in other states or jurisdictions which would have been crimes of violence as herein defined if they had been committed in this state;

The lifetime prohibition on possessing, receiving, shipping, or transporting firearms for persons convicted or adjudicated delinquent of a crime of violence in clause (2), applies only to offenders who are discharged from sentence or court supervision for a crime of violence on or after August 1, 1993.

For purposes of this section, "judicial determination" means a court proceeding pursuant to sections 253B.07 to 253B.09 or a comparable law from another state.


and i'm also curious that there was no lawyer/suit for so long.  hes been away almost a year and the event was a year before that

It wouldn't have mattered if they found 15 guns, 3 dead hookers and bushel basket full of crack, the warrant was served at the wrong residence.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i believe rev has it right are right  and thats why i wanna see when the cops found out it was wrong address. i do not assume plaintiff lawyer is truthful  in fact would be shocked disappointed if he was

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

It wouldn't have mattered if they found 15 guns, 3 dead hookers and bushel basket full of crack, the warrant was served at the wrong residence.



you are mistaken

[RevDisk]

It wouldn't have mattered if they found 15 guns, 3 dead hookers and bushel basket full of crack, the warrant was served at the wrong residence.

That is not legally correct.  

The exceptions are as follows:
- it was discovered as a result of an independent untainted source
- it would have been discovered despite the tainted source
- the chain of causation between the illegal action and the tainted evidence is too vague
- the search warrant not based on PC was executed by government agents in good faith

Edit: Although, if the guy has even a half-decent lawyer, the lawyer will argue that the search continued for quite some time after the determination and that ANY evidence found should be suspect for that reason. Because it's not possible to determine beyond reasonable doubt what was found before or after the determination. And the lawyer would be right. Short of finding the 15 guns, dead prostitutes and crack baskets in the area immediately within the doorway (or say on the porch or other enclosures), there is a lot of reasonable doubt.

[Hawkmoon]

This is yet another example of why no-knock and dynamic entry warrants should not be allowed. ALL this could have been avoided if the police had properly knocked on the door, identified themselves, and properly "served" the warrant -- giving the residents of the house an opportunity to read it, and then inform the officers that the guy named in the warrant lives next door.

But it's so much more fun to smash through doors at oh-dark-thirty and shoot family pets in front of the children ... Knocking on the door like a civilized human being and blushing slightly when told "You have the wrong house" just doesn't match up in fun quotient at all.

[brimic]

That is not legally correct. 

Wher eis the line between legitimate search and a fishing expedition based on a 'text from an informant' or an 'oops, we have have the wrong address, but looky here at what we found?'

[Strings]

And I, personally don't care about the guy getting busted for the .22. My anger is entirely aimed at "denied one child their medication"

Seriously, folks: you had police officers deny a child prescribed medication, resulting in medical complications, and y'all are gonna go on about some guy getting busted for a gun?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

there was an alleged "diabetic incident"  i am indeed shocked that the landshark hasn't shown the med report.  you think this guys gonna do better in civil court than he did in criminal?  why?