Texas deploying 1000 troops to the border

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, this...

Unless TX is abnormally bad at mobilizing forces for State Missions, 30-45 days is unacceptable. We had a brigade out to areas all over VA during the nasty storm and power outage aftermath. Vehicles, supplies, helicopters, the works. In less than 2 days.



I'm calling BS on it taking that long to get them there.

A lot of that was the head's up on the storm's path, the national coordination of disaster resources, and the fact that it was a recognized national disaster with predetermined response procedures.  Plus, they had several days to get resources mobilized prior to the storm making landfall.

Also, with the border thing there is a lot more to do interms of getting facilities planning in place.  Not exactly a lot of Holiday Inns, or even readily accessible water, along thst stretch of border.  Getting arrangments made for that little inconvenience takes time.

Another issue is the immense scale of deployment. The Texas/Mexico border stretches more than 1200 miles, almost two thirds of the total US/Mexico border's 1900 mile length.  Lots of ground to cover, and a little different from having a military depot, airport, or industrial campus where the deplyment is handled with troops housed in a single common location.

Is it a long time iterms of getting troops in trucks and on the way?  Sure.  They could be on their way tomorrow.  But trucking in troops just to say boots are on the ground does not a well planned and executed deplyment make.

Brad

[Fitz]

Bullshit.
How long did it take for tens of thousands of people from several different third world countries to coalesce into an invasion force? Or are you simply trying to make the point the the texas national guard is wildly ineffective at stopping foreign invasions?

Well...

[Fitz]

A lot of that was the head's up on the storm's path, the national coordination of disaster resources, and the fact that it was a recognized national disaster with predetermined response procedures.  Plus, they had several days to get resources mobilized prior to the storm making landfall.

Also, with the border thing there is a lot more to do interms of getting facilities planning in place.  Not exactly a lot of Holiday Inns, or even readily accessible water, along thst stretch of border.  Getting arrangments made for that little inconvenience takes time.

Another issue is the immense scale of deployment. The Texas/Mexico border stretches more than 1200 miles, almost two thirds of the total US/Mexico border's 1900 mile length.  Lots of ground to cover, and a little different from having a military depot, airport, or industrial campus where the deplyment is handled with troops housed in a single common location.

Is it a long time iterms of getting troops in trucks and on the way?  Sure.  They could be on their way tomorrow.  But trucking in troops just to say boots are on the ground does not a well planned and executed deplyment make.

Brad

I dunno, man. It's fairly easy to bring a battalion of troops into an area with MREs and shelter halfs. I don't buy that it should take that long.

I'll tell you precisely why it'll take that long.


Because they have to find them a mission.


They are doing this to appeal to voters. They know there wont be a mission, so they need to find one

thats the delay

[Brad Johnson]

They've already stated the general mission... support and assist the Texas Dep of Public Safety.

Brad

[dogmush]

That's a very slow deployment.  They should be able to get a BCM and supporting units out there inside of a week.  That's exactly why we stage and train for things like this.

I helped get the better part of a battalion into Haiti in less then 12 days from a cold start after the earthquake.

If I had to guess, I'd say that part of the delay is lawyers coming up with the ROE, and what can and can't be done.

[RoadKingLarry]

Heard the Texas AG on the radio this morning. NG troops will be unarmed and working support rolls that DPS and BP don't want to do. I'm thinking that if I was Texas NG that nagging medical issue that I've been putting off would suddenly need attention.

[wmenorr67]

We had a BDE in New Orleans on Sunday night after being called up on Wednesday after Katrina in 05.

[Fitz]

They've already stated the general mission... support and assist the Texas Dep of Public Safety.

Brad

That's not what I mean....

[lupinus]

Call my cynical, but a month and a half also gives the news cycle time to move on to Americas Next Top Hotel Cook Looking for Love Among the Stars. So the ineffectiveness of neutered boots on the ground doesn't get near as much air time. Heck, it's possibly even enough time to work out a "deal" that keeps them from going down there at all or for the administration to find a reason Texas can't send in the NG on it's own and we can add to the current scandal list.

There is simply no way in hell it takes that long to deploy a thousand men domestically unless they choose for it to be on that timeline. And if it really DOES take the units involved that long to deploy, someone needs a swift kick in the balls and walking papers.

[roo_ster]

I dunno, man. It's fairly easy to bring a battalion of troops into an area with MREs and shelter halfs. I don't buy that it should take that long.

I'll tell you precisely why it'll take that long.


Because they have to find them a mission.


They are doing this to appeal to voters. They know there wont be a mission, so they need to find one

thats the delay

Ayup.

Heard the Texas AG on the radio this morning. NG troops will be unarmed and working support rolls that DPS and BP don't want to do. I'm thinking that if I was Texas NG that nagging medical issue that I've been putting off would suddenly need attention.

Mission Found: Stand around with their thumbs up their asses. Which will be no detriment to accomplishing their "mission," since they will be unarmed.  Because issuing folks in the (dis)armed forces rifles is just crazy talk anyways.

Didn't someone say something about this, upthread?

Unless they are sent down there with a combat load, reasonable ROEs, and the mission to intercept and turn back all comers, this is grandstanding.

Let me make this clear for all of Gov Perry's boosters:
Perry has supported illegal aliens over Texans in the past and he supports them over Texans today.  He loves them so much he thinks giving them in-state tuition is a grand idea.  He thinks shoveling welfare and health care and public education tax dollars at them is terrific.  In this, he is no different from the dirty RINO SOBs in Washington.  He will sell out the taxpayer so that companies & donors can privatize profits, nationalize costs, and cut the legs out from under working class American citizens.

Butbutbut he called out the National Guard!

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

It may well have some grandstanding component, but if so it's functional grandstanding.  Boots on the ground is a damn sight better than anything the dems/libs have done, or even proposed for that matter.  Texas deals sith the lion's share of illegal border crossings, most of which are in areas so sparsly populated they might as well be the ass end of fhe moon.  Texans in those areas have been inundated with all manner of crime which the Bordrr Patrol is neither equipped, authorized, or manpowered-up enough to handle.  Getting personnel into those areas will help deal with the issue.

It helps that Guard troops are mostly regular folks, not career bureau employees, and Texans arounds these parts are notoriously supportive of our Men And Women In Uniform.  Mutually supportive troop/civilian interactions are pretty much a given and likely to be far more effective than the same number of additional BP agents.  Ditto for rediculously over-extended local law enforcement, many of whom are also Guard members.

Brad

Getting any Guard troops to the border is a good start.

They shouldn't have to do anything with illegals other than turn them over to those who should be sending them back.

I want them there to give pause to the military/para-military types who are flaunting our good will at the border.

Perry may never get my vote but this is a positive step in the right direction.

  

These remarks get to the heart of the matter.  The Texas NG may not be the best solution, but they're a helluva lot better than nothing, and nothing is all we're gonna get from anyone else.

It's a damned sight better than the empty hot air we're getting from all of the jaw-flappers around.  It's easy to criticize, 'specially when nobody expects anything from you.  A bit harder to step up.

Claiming the Texas NG will be useless because they won't have ammo is just ridiculous.  Nobody wants the Texas NG to start shooting it out with the children flooding across the border.  We want the illegals found, apprehended, and returned home.  You don't need ammo for that, you need lots of bodies out searching and some radios to call in to the Border Patrol when you find something.  The NG actually sounds pretty well-suited to that.

[wmenorr67]

These remarks get to the heart of the matter.  The Texas NG may not be the best solution, but they're a helluva lot better than nothing, and nothing is all we're gonna get from anyone else.

It's a damned sight better than the empty hot air we're getting from all of the jaw-flappers around.  It's easy to criticize, 'specially when nobody expects anything from you.  A bit harder to step up.

Claiming the Texas NG will be useless because they won't have ammo is just ridiculous.  Nobody wants the Texas NG to start shooting it out with the children flooding across the border.  We want the illegals found, apprehended, and returned home.  You don't need ammo for that, you need lots of bodies out searching and some radios to call in to the Border Patrol when you find something.  The NG actually sounds pretty well-suited to that.

It isn't the children I'm concerned about.  It is the cartel members, Mexican military and MS13 that I'm concerned about coming across and/or shooting across the border.  How many more dead BP agents or heaven forbid how many dead NG troops will it take for someone to actually grow a set of balls and do something?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

"Doing someing" of the sort you have in mind requires executive action from Washington.  Only Obama holds this power, not state govs or legislators.

So, when will someone do something?  Not until at least 2016, if not later.

[wmenorr67]

"Doing someing" of the sort you have in mind requires executive action from Washington.  Only Obama holds this power, not state govs or legislators.

So, when will someone do something?  Not until at least 2016, if not later.

Actually I believe a Governor does have the power to allow the NG to have police powers and defend themselves if they so choose.  It all comes down to the way you word the orders.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Can a governor activate his state's NG to go to war within his state or across the border, against cartels ferrinstance, without Washington's say-so?  I don't know.  I thought not, war making and foreign relations and suchlike being a federal executive thing, but maybe I'm wrong.

If it's just arming the NG against possible attack from the cartels, then yeah, a gov can probably do that on his own.  But that's not going to do anything to stop the cartels, it doesn't give the soldiers any authority to go after the cartels.  

[lupinus]

Can a governor activate his state's NG to go to war within his state or across the border, against cartels ferrinstance, without Washington's say-so?  I don't know.  I thought not, war making and foreign relations and suchlike being a federal executive thing, but maybe I'm wrong.

If it's just arming the NG against possible attack from the cartels, then yeah, a gov can probably do that on his own.  But that's not going to do anything to stop the cartels, it doesn't give the soldiers any authority to go after the cartels. 

It does when they step over the border.

[wmenorr67]

The oath of enlistment I took when I joined the Oklahoma National Guard was identical to the oath I took when I went on active duty with the exception of adding the line in there about the orders of the Governor as well as the President and officers.

And that would defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  I would say a cartel member shooting at me would be an enemy and if I'm on the receiving end of that I'm shooting back and would expect those under me to do the same.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Aye, if you're fired on, I would expect you to return fire.  But that's a whole lot different than proactively going after the cartels. 

I'm against using the military to attack people inside the US just because they're suspected of smuggling or other border crimes.  We have law enforcement and courts for that sort of thing.

[dogmush]

They won't, but they could erect military grade defensive lines inside the border of Texas on the gov's orders. (assuming the state has the ordinance.  I don't think Obama would give them federal supplies)  Think Concertina wire, minefields, HUGE steep ditches, stuff like that.  Let the combat Engineers get their woody on.  Don't do anything to the folks coming over.  Just make the area just inside our border very dangerous to cross.

Then put huge signs up in Spanish.  Let them decide to take a risk or not.

I think that would be about the most effective the NG could get without starting a shooting war.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

How long would 1200 miles of that take to build?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SADShooter]

They won't, but they could erect military grade defensive lines inside the border of Texas on the gov's orders. (assuming the state has the ordinance.  I don't think Obama would give them federal supplies)  Think Concertina wire, minefields, HUGE steep ditches, stuff like that.  Let the combat Engineers get their woody on.  Don't do anything to the folks coming over.  Just make the area just inside our border very dangerous to cross.

Then put huge signs up in Spanish.  Let them decide to take a risk or not.

I think that would be about the most effective the NG could get without starting a shooting war.

I might only add audio warnings at high-traffic points to cover the illiterate.

[dogmush]

How long would 1200 miles of that take to build?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

eh.  Depends on some factors that are hard to predict. Also Engineers are, IME, loathe to stop building fortifications.  They won't give timelines, they just keep mining things until the enemy get's there.  See Fortress Europe.

But let's say that they have the raw materials in Tx, and are willing to use NG Logistics Units (HEMMIT's, PLS's, UH-60's) to get it where it needs to be.  That leaves the CE's free to do nothing but build and mine *expletive deleted*.  Last time I played it an Infantry Platoon could easily put up 3 strand concertina 1 mile perimeter in a day.  That's after securing the perimeter and leaves time to dig in.  Engineers have (I've heard) a vehicle that'll do it.  But let's be conservative, it's hot in the TX. Work rest cycles and all that.  Say three mile/plt/day. If TX can get one CE Bn down there that's 50 miles/day of three strand.  Give them a head start and have combat aviation use the aerial mine spreaders for the mine field. A week for the signage.  A week for SNAFU's.  

Call it 35 days or so.

And I suspect that's a pretty long timescale.  These troops would be pretty motivated. (protecting hearth and home).  As long as orders were placed for extra material at the beginning so that when existing stocks were used up the new stuff was delivered, I'd bet they'd beat that timeline.  Then they'd go back to the beginning and start building more stuff until Perry stopped funding them.  6 months and we'd have a wall.  A year? Who knows,but no one would cross it.

[KD5NRH]

And I suspect that's a pretty long timescale.  These troops would be pretty motivated. (protecting hearth and home).

Don't forget friendly locals, most of whom have a lot of experience putting up fences.

Hell, they could just drop supplies every mile or so, go have a beer and come back to find that the house elves have done all the work while they were out.

[dogmush]

http://www.cochranesteel.com/SD_300_Rapid_Deployment_Perimeter.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBnWHBZDItg

Yeah, you have to go back and stake it down, and you'd need a team reloading trailers.  That's where the HEMITT's come in.  But the Army is pretty quick at this kind of thing.  We've been doing it for a day or two now.

All that "10 years and a gazzilion dollars to build a fence" BS is just that.  BS propaganda to try and make people think that a border is impossible to secure.

[onions!]

That's one hell of a slinky.