What makes certain songs more attractive than others?

[cosine]

I'm talking about base attraction to certain individual songs or pieces of music. Not attraction to certain songs or pieces of music because of their well-earned stature, or because of their significance in the development or history of western music, or because of their scholastic importance (new type of composition, etc.).

For example, I really like the Chicago tune Saturday in the Park, but the song Beginnings I don't care for at all. Likewise, I really like Clapton's Layla, but the song Keep On Growing from the same album I don't like nearly as much.

Now, I'm sure there is someone else who is exactly opposite from me on those four songs.

Why?

What inner working (physical, emotional, psychological) in one's being makes two of those four songs especially attractive to me, while someone else will be especially attracted to the other two songs and not the two I like?


Has any sort of study or research ever been done on this subject? Or does nobody care?

[Monkeyleg]

Cosine, I've given this subject a lot of thought over a couple of decades. And I'm sure that the marketing people at the various record companies have given the subject even more thought.

I don't think it's possible to create a song or even a sound that will appeal to the various subsets of the music community: rock, heavy rock, country, rap, classical, jazz, or just pop.

But I've long believed that someone could distill the appealling qualities of X number of songs within any of those subsets, and create a hit song based upon common chords, melodies, tempos, or even lyrics.

If the record companies aren't doing that already, then their marketing directors should all be fired.

[cosine]

Not to be argumentative, Monkeyleg, but that's not quite exactly what I meant. I'm not looking to try to understand why something does or does not appeal to everybody, or or which essential individual elements of a certain type of music to put together to create some thing that appeals to everybody who likes a certain style of music, but to understand what "part" (for lack of a better word) or working of one's being affects one's preference of one song over another.


Maybe I'm not making myself totally clear here. Maybe I'm just thinking of weird questions tonight.

[Monkeyleg]

"Maybe I'm not making myself totally clear here."

No, I guess you're not. Please clarify.

There are classics that will remain classics forever. But I don't know that those songs became classics because of the dynamics of the song, but probably were more focused on the times. I'm thinking about Bing Crosby or Frank Sinatra. There weren't as many alternatives back then, and Crosby and Sinatra's hits were pop culture.

I'm guessing that you still may be online, so I'm going to post this reply, and then respond to what you might have to say.

[cosine]

To try to make things clear, let me say this: I'm not talking about the songs themselves or the music itself or its structure/construction at all. I talking about one's personal response to the songs or music: what in the individual (is is an emotional thing? Physical? Psychological?) drives one's like of certain songs and dislike of others?

I'm talking about the gut feeling you get when you hear a song and think immediately, "I really like this song." What in your being causes that response? How is it stimulated? Why is that response different in different individuals? Is the stimulation different?

[BakerMikeRomeo]

I don't know squat one about music, but I like www.pandora.com

~GnSx

[Monkeyleg]

Well, Cosine, it seems that you have sensibly signed off for the night, and I have not.

If we were talking about my grandmother picking her guitar and singing this or that song, pretty much everything would be equal, except for the song.

But we're not talking about equals. You mention Chicago's "Saturday in the Park," as well as their song "Beginnings."

Two separate songs, two separate sounds. "Saturday in the Park" was heavy on the horns. "Beginnings" was less heavy on the horns, and more vocal-focused.

Eric Clapton has been so much all over the map that it's hard to pin him down. A good friend of mine, and a real music buff, once said that he'd like Clapton's music a lot more if Clapton wouldn't sing.

The extended version of "Layla" is an extravaganza of musical  presentations, from electric guitar to piano to vocals to acoustic. It's pretty hard to not find something you like in that song.

Going back to your last point, though ("what "part" (for lack of a better word) or working of one's being affects one's preference of one song over another"), I honestly don't know.

The best I can do is compare things to  the Beatles over the Stones in the 1960's. The Beatles' had a very upbeat tone to their songs. The Stones always had a darker sound; they were very much into the D and C chords. Plus, they had two lead guitar players, something that was very unique at the time. The sound was just of a deeper tone, a tone that bass guitarist Bill Wyman was able to accentuate.

In the end, though, I don't know that you can quantify why you like one song over another. There are a lot of factors that come into play besides the song itself.

[Monkeyleg]

"To try to make things clear, let me say this: I'm not talking about the songs themselves or the music itself or its structure/construction at all. I talking about one's personal response to the songs or music: what in the individual (is is an emotional thing? Physical? Psychological?) drives one's like of certain songs and dislike of others? "

Oh, yeah. After the San Francisco culture got hold of the Stones (as well as the police) in 1967 or so, their music sounded like junk.

Then, in the summer of 1968, I heard "Jumpin' Jack Flash" on the radio for the first time, and said, "rock n' roll is back."

But the song wasn't the only factor. The song was my flag. It came out when I was in my full rebellion period. It fit my mood exactly. So, there is your emotional angle.

A year or so later, my now-wife left me. And I was angry.

Where better to feed that anger than with the Rolling Stone's music?

If there were a better gauge of why people like certain songs or musicians, then I'm certain that there would be volumes of books written about Barry Manilow.

[Hazzard]

what in the individual (is is an emotional thing? Physical? Psychological?) drives one's like of certain songs and dislike of others?

Well, It's a complex thing. I've pondered this same question many times myself.

Physical

I like heavy drums. Not "you can hear it at the stoplight from 16 cars back" heavy, but more like the intro to Enter Sandman by Metallica. I like them because I can feel it in my chest on every drumbeat and I find it pleasant. Some sounds can also affect certain people in a negative way physically, such as nails on a chalkboard. That is why people describe it as "running up their spine". It sets up vibrations in their bone structure that literally does.

emotional

The emotional response can be to either to the lyrics or to the music itself. Listening to and understanding the lyrics to The Leader Of The Band by Dan Fogelberg could move the heart of anyone who understands why their father brought them up the way they did.
On the other hand, the second lead in Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd will grab you emotionally from the first note and just hold you there for the duration.

Psychological

I think Monkeyleg summed it up pretty well. I would add that music can also change our "phychology" albeit temporarily. That's why we have driving music, music that we relax at home with, christmas music, etc...

I would like to point out that most music that seems to remain popular year after year is very simple. A simple rythm, simple harmonies, easy for the non-musician to understand. After all, most of the masses don't want to think about anything more complex.

[Sindawe]

I talking about one's personal response to the songs or music: what in the individual (is is an emotional thing? Physical? Psychological?) drives one's like of certain songs and dislike of others?

For me, it is either songs that have a mood that is reflective of my general outlook on life (somewhat of a depressive) or diametrically opposed to that outlook. For example, peices in line with my outlook are:

Nine Inch Nails: The Great Below & Hurt

DJ Tomcraft: Loneliness http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSf2uuwkZZc

Iron Maiden: Run to the hills.

Opposed to my outlook:

SFX: People can fly

Jethro Tull: Bungle in the Jungle

Artist Unknow: The piece of opera that the character Andy Dufran played in the film "The Shawshank Redemption".

For me, its mostly emotional.

[Moondoggie]

I've given this a lot of thought, too.

Although I do like a lot of different forms of music, except country, I'm mostly into classic rock/oldies.  I can't stand Motown.

I'm big into opening riffs, especially guitar.  "Surfin' Safari", "Long Cool Woman In A Black Dress", "House of the Rising Sun", "I Saw Her Standing There" all are songs that grab me instantly.  The opening piano riff in "O Bla De, Oh Bla Dah" (or whatever the actual title is/how it's spelled escapes me) is also a grabber.

Other than openings, I guess I'd say is that the good song has to "Soar".  The melody, harmony, instrumental, percussion have to fit just right.  Good message/story helps, but isn't a deal breaker.  Although extremely stupid lyrics can totally turn me off to a song that otherwise would be musically acceptable.  Manfred Mann, "Blinded By The Light" would be a prime example.

There are quite a few songs that have special meaning for me besides ones that have attachments to relationships with girls.  There are also songs that I used to like a lot that I can no longer stand to listen to because of their connotation to very bad things...this facet has only come about in the past few years for me.  I never associated music with negative events in my life before recently.

I'm a very eclectic nitpick when it comes to music.  I have a list of "Songs that should never be played on the radio"..or ever.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

There's been volumes of study on the subject over the past few hundred years.  The answer is the body of knowledge known as "music appreciation" or "music science" or various other terms.  You can get a college degree in this stuff if you really want to.

Short version:

Good music is, well, musical.  Good music has all the elements of music that differentiate music from random noise:  melody, harmony, rhythm, structure, temp, emotion, and a handful of other elements.  When many of these elements are present and used to good effect in a particular song, the results are a song that has appeal as really good music.  I

The Beatles were masters at creating songs that were utterly musical.  They understood all of the elements of good music, how they interact together, and how to include all of them in their songs.  The obvious result is that most of their music stands favorably against the best music every created by man.  Most of the classical masters were similarly well-versed in the science of music and were expert practitioners of the art.  That's why you don['t find many duds from the likes of Beethoven or Tchaikovsky. 

Most modern bands don't incorporate these elements into their songs.  Some notable exceptions (in my opinion) are Linkin Park, Tool, Evanescence.  Music from these bands is atypically musical, usually includes at minimum good melody, good rhythm, and good tempo.

Pop music tends to be 9 parts marketing and only 1 part actual music.  Rock tunes always have rhythm (boring and unoriginal rhythm, but rhythm nonetheless).  But rhythm alone isn't usually enough to carry a tune, unless it is spectacularly good rhythm.  Melody is probably the most important musical element for making a good song, and it can carry a tune all on it's own.  But good melody is conspicuously absent in most pop music.

I'm starting to ramble.  Anyways... 

Learn to identify the elements of music (melody, harmony, etc).  They're fairly hard concepts to grasp properly.  At least that's what I've found.  If you do learn what these concepts are and how to identify them in the songs you hear, then i bet you'll understand the difference between Saturday in the Park and Layla vs Beginnings and Keep on Growing.

[Bogie]

You know what I really hate? A good piece of music that got butchered in production...
 
A perfect example would be Prince's Purple Rain soundtrack. It sounds like someone took all the dynamic compression sliders, and said "Hey, if a little is good, let's really go for it!"
 
Now, for good recordings...

Dire Straits Brothers In Arms remaster

Steely Dan Two Against Nature
 

[cosine]

Learn to identify the elements of music (melody, harmony, etc).  They're fairly hard concepts to grasp properly.  At least that's what I've found.  If you do learn what these concepts are and how to identify them in the songs you hear, then i bet you'll understand the difference between Saturday in the Park and Layla vs Beginnings and Keep on Growing.

I can pretty easily identify the different elements in music, considering that I took piano lessons from the ages of 6 to 16, including lessons from a piano performance undergrad student, and I still study tons of stuff about music in my spare time. So, I do understand the differences between the songs I listed in my first post.

I'm wondering why the different elements put together in a certain way in a composition appeal to me, but if you put those same elements together in a different way I don't care as much for it anymore. What inside of me influences that? What inside of me subconsciously influences my preferences? Is that even knowable with the current level of scientific knowledge available today?

For example, the first time I heard the opening riff of Layla, I was hooked on that song before the song barely got started. Yet, I have found that I'm not necessarily attracted to other songs with similar opening riffs (similar in key, melody, harmony structure, rhythm, tempo, orchestration, etc.). Why?


Or maybe I'm just thinking too much and not making any sense at all.



Maybe I should just stop trying to figure out why and just enjoy. 

[Bogie]

It's called "soul."
 

[280plus]

Same reason some people like liver and others don't. It's not really something you can  put your finger on. Good question though.

[ojibweindian]

Most people naturally are attracted to songs with some variation of the I-IV-V progression; certainly some of the biggest hits in popular music history follow this structure (i.e. Under My Thumb, Gimme Shelter, Honky Tonk Women, Layla, Cocaine, etc).