Chances of a New AWB?

[RoadKingLarry]

Starting to hear about the shooters mental issues. Autistic, just not right, he had "problems"...

[birdman]

I strongly suspect there's a big correlation ≠ causation issue with "violent video games".

I'll wager that obsessively liking violent video games is a symptom of problems and not a cause. A normal person detaches from the violence somewhat, and just gets immersed in the goals and the challenge of the game play.

The troubled person gets obsessed with the killing, personalizes it. Revels in it. The game didn't make them that way. Although it may let them exercise thoughts or attitudes they already had.

And considering that the First Amendment issues with video game content are even more protected than the Second Amendment firearm ones, I don't think it's very useful avenue to pursue, even if I did think it was a "root cause" type of issue.

I'm with AJ on this one.  Most non-violent people I know, while liking FPS games, don't revel in the violence part.  I think the reveling in violent (games/movies/etc) is an EFFECT of being violent, in the same fashion kinky people like kinky pron, while kinky pron doesn't make non kinky people kinky.

Violent games/movies, etc are either seen as fiction by well adjusted folks, or fantasy as those less well adjusted.  

Another side of it...I enjoy military thriller novels (red storm rising being my favorite, but include Clancy, coyle, brown, etc) but it isn't because I'm imagining myself as a character.

As for the mental part, calling this person autistic is sad...and a result of the whole spectrum argument advanced over the past few years.  A truly autistic person would have never behaved this way, or likely even been capable of this behavior.

As someone who exhibits -some- classic high functioning autistic (aspy) behaviors, I am horrified to see this as a "reason" or excuse.   Molon labe.

[longeyes]

Sure beats a pointy stick.  



IMHO this will be the tipping point.  

We've seen mass shootings almost every year for many years.  
We all know its a tiny speck on the statistics of violence in this country.  
But something about this particular shooting puts me at ill ease.  Besides the level of depravity it takes to even consider the idea of shooting up an elementary school.
But of course, it's also the depravity of this shooting. The horror of some sicko shooting up a kindergarten class.  
I smell political will.  

I agree with you, but not because the crime itself was so horrific and into the realm of the darkest myth but because it concerns the murder of children by another "child" with obvious derangement.  The problems with our families are taboo territory; we would rather disarm ourselves, however foolishly, than deeply examine what has gone wrong with the culture and why.  We have forged a culture of young barbarians under the indulgent wing of hyperliberalism.

[Hawkmoon]

No, the guns were "registered" to the mother.

... Did she buy them for herself? Unlikely. The 20-year old shooter was known to have enjoyed violent video games. At 20, he was not old enough to buy handguns himself. So it's probably a safe guess that Mommy indulged her autistic son's fantasies by buying the guns he wanted for him. If she then gave him the handguns rather than keep them under her own control ... she broke the law, and ultimately paid for it with her life.

I guess I should stop guessing. News update:

Nancy Lanza legally owned a Sig Sauer and a Glock, both handguns of models commonly used by police, and a military-style Bushmaster .223 M4 carbine, according to law enforcement officials who also believe Adam Lanza used at least some of those weapons.

"We're investigating the history of each and every weapon and we will know every single thing about those weapons," Vance said.

Nancy Lanza was an avid gun collector who once showed him a "really nice, high-end rifle" that she had purchased, said Dan Holmes, owner of a landscaping business who recently decorated her yard with Christmas garlands and lights. "She said she would often go target shooting with her kids."

[longeyes]

No, the guns were "registered" to the mother.

Of course, Connecticut (like Pennsylvania) technically does not have firearms "registration." But Connecticut does require that ALL sales of firearms through FFLs, and all sales of handguns between private parties, must be called into the State Police Firearms unit for a transaction approval before the deal can be (legally) completed. The state has a 4-part form that asks pretty much the same exact questions that are on the Federal 4473, with the names and addresses of both the buyer and the seller. One copy of this state form goes to the buyer, one copy goes to the seller, one goes to the state police, and the fourth copy goes to the local police in the municipality of the buyer.

So, except for the "loophole" that long guns may be sold privately without state blessing, there is an official record of pretty much all gun sales in CT. So it's not hard to see how they tied the guns to the mother. Did she buy them for herself? Unlikely. The 20-year old shooter was known to have enjoyed violent video games. At 20, he was not old enough to buy handguns himself. So it's probably a safe guess that Mommy indulged her autistic son's fantasies by buying the guns he wanted for him. If she then gave him the handguns rather than keep them under her own control ... she broke the law, and ultimately paid for it with her life.

The professional psychologists refuse to admit it, but IMHO these violent, shoot-em-up video games are responsible in large measure for the huge increase in violence (and "gun violence") this country has experienced in recent years.

This.  Precisely my thoughts.

[longeyes]

I'm with AJ on this one.  Most non-violent people I know, while liking FPS games, don't revel in the violence part.  I think the reveling in violent (games/movies/etc) is an EFFECT of being violent, in the same fashion kinky people like kinky pron, while kinky pron doesn't make non kinky people kinky.

Violent games/movies, etc are either seen as fiction by well adjusted folks, or fantasy as those less well adjusted.  

Another side of it...I enjoy military thriller novels (red storm rising being my favorite, but include Clancy, coyle, brown, etc) but it isn't because I'm imagining myself as a character.

As for the mental part, calling this person autistic is sad...and a result of the whole spectrum argument advanced over the past few years.  A truly autistic person would have never behaved this way, or likely even been capable of this behavior.

As someone who exhibits -some- classic high functioning autistic (aspy) behaviors, I am horrified to see this as a "reason" or excuse.   Molon labe.

Call of Duty, the new version, sold $400 million of games THE FIRST DAY.  This is no small problem.  We have a lot of violence-sensitized youth in this country.  A lot.

[longeyes]

I suspect Nancy Lanza was more than just an "avid gun collector" who was bonding with her kids.  She knew she had a son with "problems."  Her guns were not adequately secured.  This is not a gun issue, this is a parenting issue.  My bet is that Nancy Lanza will be revealed to have plenty of issues herself.

[dogmush]

Call of Duty, the new version, sold $400 million of games THE FIRST DAY.  This is no small problem.  We have a lot of violence-sensitized youth in this country.  A lot.

Disagree.  Youth in current western society are more insulated from violence and death then pretty much ever.  we don't send 10-13 year olds off to be squires anymore.  Violence and death are mostly unheard of, or at most a news report, to a huge percentage of American youths.

Maybe that's the problem.  These kids have no idea what death, and life, are actually about because they've never been taught/seen it.

[Regolith]

Call of Duty, the new version, sold $400 million of games THE FIRST DAY.  This is no small problem.  We have a lot of violence-sensitized youth in this country.  A lot.

There's one very big problem with your argument.  This chart:



If violence desensitization were the problem, crime rates would be going up. They're not. Nor has their EVER been any link found between video games and violent crime.

[Hawkmoon]

Disagree.  Youth in current western society are more insulated from violence and death then pretty much ever.  we don't send 10-13 year olds off to be squires anymore.  Violence and death are mostly unheard of, or at most a news report, to a huge percentage of American youths.

Maybe that's the problem.  These kids have no idea what death, and life, are actually about because they've never been taught/seen it.

That's precisely the point. They get to play these games, rack up their "kills," and then they just his reset and start over. They learn to enjoy killing without understanding (on a subconscious level) that, in the real world, there is no reset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjeptaI2T8E

[Fitz]

Oh look, folks who don't want to blame one inanimate object are blaming another!

The hypocrisy is getting thick in here.


I played tons of Violent video games as did plenty of my friends.

[Regolith]

That's precisely the point. They get to play these games, rack up their "kills," and then they just his reset and start over. They learn to enjoy killing without understanding that, in the real world, there is no reset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjeptaI2T8E

You have no clue what you're talking about. You have to be seriously, mentally deranged in order to not to be able to tell the difference between pixels on a screen and real people. I've been playing violent video games since I was very young, almost as long as I've been shooting, and the thought of actually hurting a person, on purpose, makes me physically ill. I know a lot of gamers, and they're all the same way. You truly have absolutely no idea what you're on about. You are like an anti gunner screaming about the shoulder thing that goes up.

[longeyes]

Disagree.  Youth in current western society are more insulated from violence and death then pretty much ever.  we don't send 10-13 year olds off to be squires anymore.  Violence and death are mostly unheard of, or at most a news report, to a huge percentage of American youths.

Maybe that's the problem.  These kids have no idea what death, and life, are actually about because they've never been taught/seen it.

You misunderstand me.  I agree with what you say.  I am talking about fantasy violence.  More and more the world is sanitized, escapist, driven by fantasy, by lack of connection.

[freakazoid]

The professional psychologists refuse to admit it, but IMHO these violent, shoot-em-up video games are responsible in large measure for the huge increase in violence (and "gun violence") this country has experienced in recent years.

Sure, whatever Jack Thompson.  

Back when I had time I used to play multiplayer online FPSs quite a lot, like a HUGE amount of time. Yet I've never gone on any shooting sprees, I've never even been in a fight. I like to think I'm actually a pretty nice guy.

[longeyes]

There's one very big problem with your argument.  This chart:



If violence desensitization were the problem, crime rates would be going up. They're not. Nor has their EVER been any link found between video games and violent crime.

My contention is that such charts and "studies" are deeply flawed.  There are many types of "violence;" one might be the kind that induces muddle-headedness, a lack of appetite for reality, a willingness to embrace Authority in all forms, a desire to let "them" do it for you.

[longeyes]

Oh look, folks who don't want to blame one inanimate object are blaming another!

The hypocrisy is getting thick in here.


I played tons of Violent video games as did plenty of my friends.

Not all people who play are equally affected, but our consciousness is formed by what we fill it with.  Immersion in violent shoot-
'em-ups has an impact--or are you arguing it doesn't?  What else is the point of culture after all but to form our mental landscape?  Those who say they are escaping via such vehicles, my question to you is this: what exactly are you escaping from?

***

As I said in an earlier post... People are NOT going to be willing to look at certain issues.  THIS is why guns get blamed.  Because we don't, for example, want to look at the drug-infused world we now live in, the dysfunction of so many families, broken or intact, at the conversion of our mass culture into emotional self-abuse from self-elevation.  Yes, there is real resistance, and we are seeing it right here in River City.

[Regolith]

My contention is that such charts and "studies" are deeply flawed.  There are many types of "violence;" one might be the kind that induces muddle-headedness, a lack of appetite for reality, a willingness to embrace Authority in all forms, a desire to let "them" do it for you.

I'd expect that kind of answer from a liberal "studies" student.

Violence is pretty well defined. It's the use of force against another person. The use of force against other people in our society has been going down, according to all indicators. Try to deal with reality as it is, not reality as you think it is.

[Jamisjockey]

Personal responsibility.  Our culture breeds a lack of it.  Nothing else matters without it.

[Regolith]

Not all people who play are equally affected, but our consciousness is formed by what we fill it with.  Immersion in violent shoot-
'em-ups has an impact--or are you arguing it doesn't?  What else is the point of culture after all but to form our mental landscape?  Those who say they are escaping via such vehicles, my question to you is this: what exactly are you escaping from?

Where are the indicators of said impact? There are none that you can point to. The violent crime rates do not bear out your contention, and there has never been a scientific study that did.

[longeyes]

I'd expect that kind of answer from a liberal "studies" student.

Violence is pretty well defined. It's the use of force against another person. The use of force against other people has been going down, according to all indicators. Try to deal with reality as it is, not reality as you think it is.

And this is the kind of response I'd expect from someone who has thought through the nature of his own society.  Violence is part of the "authority system" that begins at the cradle and extends to the grave; that shapes all of our thinking and the range of our emotional responses.  For every one who acts out and becomes one of your statistics, there are many who empathize and many more who condone or abet.  Some violence is endorsed and even encouraged; other violence is condemned.  You don't need to swing a punch or shoot someone to commit violence.  You can destroy that person's soul through "education" or draconian laws or a toxic civil law suit or emotional abuse in the home or...you add the rest.

[Jamisjockey]

Where are the indicators of said impact? There are none that you can point to. The violent crime rates do not bear out your contention, and there has never been a scientific study that did.

They just want to blame something which conflicts with their own personal morality, demand its restrictions, and claim ownership of the moral high ground.



Keep your laws off my Xbox.

[longeyes]

Where are the indicators of said impact? There are none that you can point to. The violent crime rates do not bear out your contention, and there has never been a scientific study that did.

Surely you jest.  It is not just overt violence you need to look at, though you can find them in the ghetto if you look a little.  Maybe if you examine the pop culture of our time and the thugification of middle-class kids?  Maybe the fact that kids don't find cheating or stealing a moral issue any more?  

But the violent videogames, in my view, come from the fact that there are no longer the same fields of "play" OUT THERE for boys that once existed.  I mean beyond the den, in the real world.  On this forum we have far more men who have had lives of real action than in the population at large.  Boys now live through fantasy.  It ain't normal, amigo, and what we call "autism" probably has in many cases cultural roots.

[RocketMan]

The reason for blaming guns is simple, it is intellectual laziness.  It is much easier to 'solve' the problem of 'gun violence' by banning guns than it is to drill down to the real causes of the problem.

eta:  Then again, maybe we are being forced into something akin to intellectual laziness due to the problem being intractable.  'Doing something' must be simple and understandable to the people doing the demanding so that whatever was done can be understood and perceived as effective.  Even if it was not.
Or, most likely this is just mindless rambling on my part.  Oh, hell anyway.

[Regolith]

Surely you jest.  It is not just overt violence you need to look at, though you can find them in the ghetto if you look a little.  Maybe if you examine the pop culture of our time and the thugification of middle-class kids?  Maybe the fact that kids don't find cheating or stealing a moral issue any more?  

But the violent videogames, in my view, come from the fact that there are no longer the same fields of "play" OUT THERE for boys that once existed.  I mean beyond the den, in the real world.  On this forum we have far more men who have had lives of real action than in the population at large.  Boys now live through fantasy.  It ain't normal, amigo, and what we call "autism" probably has in many cases cultural roots.

You're arguing off on a tangent that has absolutely nothing with what we're talking about. If your contention is that violent video games cause people to become violent, WHERE IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE FOR THIS? You cannot answer that question, because there is no evidence for it. Your contention is flat wrong. Deal with it.

[longeyes]

They just want to blame something which conflicts with their own personal morality, demand its restrictions, and claim ownership of the moral high ground.



Keep your laws off my Xbox.

This is not about laws, it is about values, about understanding what makes a society viable and strong.  I plan no laws that would cripple your Xbox, but if you think that what you put into your head doesn't matter, you are just kidding yourself.

I'm as pro-liberty as you are, but I don't pretend that Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto is an expression of my liberty.