Author Topic: Neanderthal  (Read 1608 times)

Ron

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Neanderthal
« on: January 31, 2022, 08:24:00 AM »
A different take on the neanderthal "man". I looked for a thread on this, I thought I recall reading something about this here. If you have read Crichtons "Eaters of the dead" you might recognize some of the ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbmywzGAVs
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MechAg94

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2022, 09:15:20 AM »
... but those novels about the cave girl who was raised by flatheads said they were peaceful and just wanted to be left alone....    =D

Interesting.  Just a few minutes in so far. 

People also forget that ideas of archeology and paleontology have changed a lot over the years and will likely change just as much in coming decades. 
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WLJ

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2022, 09:48:56 AM »
Very interesting although I have a feeling the truth is somewhere in the middle between the two views of how Neanderthals looked. Remember we really don't have a firm idea how dinosaurs looked as well just a general outline.
As far as the cannibalistic part that could have been mostly opportunistic in nature. If Grunk got killed during the hunt, probably common considering what they were hunting, no sense in letting the meat go to waste.   
I think them dragging off women to rape was a bit much. Any stories of great apes doing something along those lines?
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MechAg94

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2022, 10:22:50 AM »
Clan of the Cave Bear is the novel series I was thinking of. 

IMO, this guy's view is just as valid as the others.  It is a bit on the extreme side, but I think that is because he is using it to explain a few other things. 

If you think his view is far fetched, just remember there is just as much evidence backing his view as what has been commonly taught for a number of years now.  That is part of the problem with studying the distant past.  You have to know where the facts end and the assumptions start.  You can see that in descriptions of ancient battles also.  The better authors are clear about what they are adding to the story and why.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2022, 10:29:48 AM »
I don't think I have ever seen a pictorial recreation of a Neanderthal that looked as humanoid as those he showed.
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Bogie

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2022, 12:00:14 PM »
I suspect that there has been a move in recent "science" to make them look kinder and gentler. Expect cancelation at any moment...
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MechAg94

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2022, 12:02:28 PM »
https://www.google.com/search?q=neanderthal&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS868US868&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOrcO7u9z1AhX2rHIEHYltACUQ_AUoAnoECAIQBA&biw=1920&bih=880&dpr=1&safe=active&ssui=on
If you do a Google search for Neanderthal and go to Images, that is mostly what comes up. 


I would agree that many of those are more "humanized" than I remember seeing years ago. 
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Bogie

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2022, 12:16:43 PM »
Them damn hippies think that the Neanderthals looked like Jorma...
 
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WLJ

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2022, 12:49:14 PM »
If you do a Google search for Neanderthal and go to Images, that is mostly what comes up. 

How the MSM and Hollywood portray Trump voters and conservatives in general.
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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2022, 01:20:46 PM »
How the MSM and Hollywood portray Trump voters and conservatives in general.
Well., Neanderthals certainly had to be far more anchored in rock-bottom day-to-day reality than some Lefty folks nowadays.

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Bogie

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2022, 01:24:26 PM »
Bigfoot? Yeti?
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Ron

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2022, 01:38:04 PM »
If you saw The 13th Warrior (considered a huge flop of a movie), it was based loosely on Crichton's book Eaters of the Dead.

It was a story about Norseman battling a tribe of humanoids that in Crichtons book were the last Neanderthals.
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lee n. field

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2022, 03:04:36 PM »
So, the source of the "uncanny valley" response? 

Just for kicks: https://rifters.com/real/shorts/VampireDomestication.pdf.  (fiction)
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MechAg94

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2022, 03:53:51 PM »
So, the source of the "uncanny valley" response? 

Just for kicks: https://rifters.com/real/shorts/VampireDomestication.pdf.  (fiction)
That is pretty good.  Just technical enough to make it believable.    =)
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2022, 04:17:19 PM »
If you saw The 13th Warrior (considered a huge flop of a movie), it was based loosely on Crichton's book Eaters of the Dead.

It was a story about Norseman battling a tribe of humanoids that in Crichtons book were the last Neanderthals.

Who won?
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Pb

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2022, 04:17:32 PM »
I think them dragging off women to rape was a bit much. Any stories of great apes doing something along those lines?

Orangutans supposedly have raped women at times.

I am not a believer in the Neanderthal predator idea however.

HankB

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2022, 05:09:17 PM »
The source cited in the original post said that the artist's new conceptions of Neanderthal anatomy were based on known primate anatomy . . .

Which large primates have eyes with red sclera and with cat's-eye pupils like his artist's conceptions of Neanderthal eyes?

And . . . just how far can Neanderthal anatomy deviate from Homo Sapiens anatomy before the offspring of such a mating become either impossible or sterile? It seems that if the anatomy is as different as proposed, the genome would also differ quite substantially.
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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2022, 05:24:40 PM »
The source cited in the original post said that the artist's new conceptions of Neanderthal anatomy were based on known primate anatomy . . .

Which large primates have eyes with red sclera and with cat's-eye pupils like his artist's conceptions of Neanderthal eyes?

And . . . just how far can Neanderthal anatomy deviate from Homo Sapiens anatomy before the offspring of such a mating become either impossible or sterile? It seems that if the anatomy is as different as proposed, the genome would also differ quite substantially.

It's documented that the soviets tried to mate humans and apes, didn't work.

Also, I believe that a high percentage of the Neanderthal genome has been mapped as of 2013.

And it's documented that humans with European DNA typically have 1-1.5% Neanderthal DNA, with some being as high as 3%.

I think that modern man and Neanderthal man had a common ancestor at the beginning of Pleistocene era and each hominid developed according to the environment over 500-800,000 years. I also think modern man was more resilient to the major climate changes occurring 40,000 years and was able to adapt physically and cognitively, where the Neanderthal became extinct. Probably had a bit of interbreeding going on as modern man started to move into the European continent. It is also speculated that pale skin, freckles and red/blond hair came from Neanderthal genetic material. 
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Ben

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2022, 05:59:00 PM »
And it's documented that humans with European DNA typically have 1-1.5% Neanderthal DNA, with some being as high as 3%.


23andme has a weird way of stating Neanderthal ancestry, but it tells me that I have less than 2% (which I have to assume is more than 1%) and at 244 variants, have more Neanderthal DNA than 58% of other 23andme members. I don't know how that would compute to general population.

This is what their website says about who has the DNA:

Quote
European, Asian, and indigenous American populations today have between 1–2 percent Neanderthal DNA, but Sub-Saharan African populations have significantly less. While Neanderthal remains have been found close to Africa there is no evidence that Neanderthals ever called the continent home.

Edit: Oh, also this:

Quote
We’ve known about Neanderthals for over a century. But did you know there was at least one other population of archaic humans who interbred with our ancestors? Meet the Denisovans. Bone fragments unearthed in Siberia and Tibet are the only remains ever found belonging to the Denisovans. After their genome was sequenced in 2015, scientists learned that Denisovan ancestry is found in modern humans, reaching 5 percent in some Oceanian populations. However, Denisovan ancestry remains very low in most other groups — typically far less than 0.1 percent. The studies of Denisovan DNA also revealed they were more closely related to Neanderthals than to modern humans.
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Ron

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2022, 06:08:02 PM »
23andme has a weird way of stating Neanderthal ancestry, but it tells me that I have less than 2% (which I have to assume is more than 1%) and at 244 variants, have more Neanderthal DNA than 58% of other 23andme members. I don't know how that would compute to general population.

This is what their website says about who has the DNA:

Are you a carnivorous night owl who dreams of destroying your enemies and taking their women?

Then you might just be a Neanderthal!
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2022, 06:40:20 PM »
Quote
It's documented that the soviets tried to mate humans and apes, didn't work.

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Bogie

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2022, 07:20:30 PM »
It worked. Just look at <insert name of random member...>.
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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2022, 10:31:03 PM »
https://www.idahopress.com/boiseweekly/odds_and_ends/isu-prof-bigfoot-is-real/article_fe3f80e0-8ed2-5ed3-9102-25afbb728af6.html
 bigfoot is real! I saw an ad for a youtube where the guy claims a bigfoot female forced him to "mate" unfortunately, he didn't have his gun.
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Bogie

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2022, 12:11:56 AM »
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WLJ

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Re: Neanderthal
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2022, 10:43:58 AM »
This came out 4 years ago
Says the guy who made the video in the OP is a TV producer which would explains a few thing like the over dramatization that TV productions are know for.


"Scientist" Claims Neanderthals Were Really Monsters!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UwuUuq5LA4
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