Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: just Warren on March 19, 2017, 08:29:14 PM
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For this discussion I'm not interested in the yes or no politics of it. I'm interested in what it would actually be.
How tall, wide, what materials, etc. Optimal location i.e. right on the border or some distance in country.
How would it be staffed, maintained, and resupplied.
You know all those little details that we don't get to because of the overall shouting on the issue.
I call my idea the MAGA-No! LINE. (Make America Great Again-No (entry for you) Line)
For me if I was building it I don't see the need for one contiguous wall.
Why not a series of fortlets built from HESCOs and shipping containers spaced every so often that troops patrol out of.
Put the fortlets in the best location for crossing so they block those route directly and space them depending on how hard the terrain is to see into and drive over. Closer, harder terrain would have the fortlets closer together and with easier, open terrain you could space them farther apart.
Why HESCOs and containers? They're cheap, modular, and easy to work with. Plus you're not defending against an armed invasion. Just normal folks on foot mostly so you don't need the expense of a hardened site.
Resupply using trucks and cargo helicopters. Possibly build a railroad behind the MAGA-No! line to make resupply even easier.
Make sure the fortlets are comfortable (AC and cold houses) for the personnel and spend the extra to make sure they get good food. Also rotate the people out on no more than a weekly basis. And probably less than that. In addition make sure that all the staffers get a chance at being posted in the easier areas and take their turns in the harder areas. Keep slots open in the very best places (near cities or the coasts) open for top performers so they have something to compete for.
That's my basic outline. Like I said, no politics just practically about the structure itself.
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Just use drones to patrol
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I think Trump uses "the wall" the same way he uses "wiretapping". A general term for a number of alternatives.
In some areas, walls will be both practical and the best option. In other areas, there will likely be electronic frontiers. In others, UAVs, etc. This won't be a single solution.
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Limes Germanicus
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FOB doctrine of Hescos and conex stuff would be ideal. You'd have a perfect place to rotate reserve/guard units, and in no time at all, word would get out that jumping the border wasn't worth the effort.
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What trumps wall?
Oh, you meant Trump's wall?
(Bet this fella never learned no cursive. :old: )
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTZscYmBXco
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That's both amazing and terrifying. Going up a level is still the same hard challenge as now I'd expect.
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FOB doctrine of Hescos and conex stuff would be ideal. You'd have a perfect place to rotate reserve/guard units, and in no time at all, word would get out that jumping the border wasn't worth the effort.
We're busy, and that's not our mission.
The US doesn't have the personnel to man a set of fortifications like you're describing, not to mention the cost of housing, feeding, and maintaining that many troops. An actual wall would both be better and cheaper.
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We're busy, and that's not our mission.
The US doesn't have the personnel to man a set of fortifications like you're describing, not to mention the cost of housing, feeding, and maintaining that many troops. An actual wall would both be better and cheaper.
If we don't have the personnel to secure our border . . . what the hell are we spending hundreds of billions of dollars on our military for?
The PROBLEM with using the military to stop illicit cross-border traffic is the insane ROE's that would be imposed.
As for what kind of wall to build - why don't we ask the Israelis what they built around Gaza? That seems to have been reasonably effective.
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If we don't have the personnel to secure our border . . . what the hell are we spending hundreds of billions of dollars on our military for?
The PROBLEM with using the military to stop illicit cross-border traffic is the insane ROE's that would be imposed.
As for what kind of wall to build - why don't we ask the Israelis what they built around Gaza? That seems to have been reasonably effective.
It's never really been the military's mission to stop Illegal Immigrants. That's a law enforcement mission. The US Army helped (on and off) but we're not good at it and it's a misuse of men and materiel. You want cops. The Military is not cops. Not to mention we're still kinda busy with the whole Islamic Terror Extremism thing.
The hard truth of it is you can't really put men with guns at the border because we (America) is not ready to start shooting illegals coming into the country. If you aren't going to shoot them, men with guns aren't the tool you want to use. The real point of a wall (or fence, or trench) is that it will slow border crossings without killing (except by accident) the folks it deters.
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It's never really been the military's mission to stop Illegal Immigrants. That's a law enforcement mission. The US Army helped (on and off) but we're not good at it and it's a misuse of men and materiel. You want cops.
Ya know how we're always saying the alphabet agencies shouldn't have armed agents? IRS, BATFE, etc? What if we was to transfer all o' them boys to ICE, and have them patrol the border? Win-win! :lol:
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I'm thinking something smooth faced (to not give any foot/hand holds for climbing) topped with razor wire (to prevent some idiot from trying to go over with a grappling hook or ladders). Thinking concrete or similar. Maybe steel shell filled with sand or similar. If you want to be really clever, have it be wider at the top than at the bottom to make it even harder to climb/scale/ladder/etc.
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If you want to be really clever, have it be wider at the top than at the bottom to make it even harder to climb/scale/ladder/etc.
You'll never get past our Inverted Ziggurat of Doom!