Bridge Collapses in Pittsiburg.... hours before

[K Frame]

Biden's scheduled appearance in the city... to talk about infrastructure, including bridges.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/us/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-biden.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20220128&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=173503613&segment_id=80995&user_id=796ad5ceed0735e4916204f65ad66d5a

Let the conspiracy theories start!

[WLJ]

Hitting a paywall

Not behind a paywall

Pittsburgh bridge collapses ahead of Biden city visit to talk infrastructure
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/bridge-collapse-pittsburgh-01-28-21/index.html

[WLJ]

A crack was "discovered" on the Sherman Minton bridge (I-64 over the Ohio) here just a day or two before Obama made a big pitch for money with a "our bridges are falling down" speech in front of a bridge on the Ohio. The Sherman Minton was used as an example.
The bridge was closed for months causing havoc. Later it was reported the crack had been there since the bridge opened in 1958(?)

 

[Boomhauer]

Hurry hurry and pass this bill that spends nothing on actual infrastructure in order to fix infrastructure

[K Frame]

My Father was a highway engineer who did bridge inspections for a number of counties in central Pennsylvania.

I accompanied him frequently to take notes and photographs.

After several years of helping him through the 1980s and into the 1990s, I was left with one lingering question....

How the hell are ANY of our bridges still standing?

I saw crap that would curl your nose hair and pucker your butt so tightly you wouldn't be able to walk correctly.

I remember walking across the deck of one bridge and stopping to spit... through the fist sized hole in the deck and substructure and into the stream about 20 feet below.

And that was one of the better bridges.

[Boomhauer]

My Father was a highway engineer who did bridge inspections for a number of counties in central Pennsylvania.

I accompanied him frequently to take notes and photographs.

After several years of helping him through the 1980s and into the 1990s, I was left with one lingering question....

How the hell are ANY of our bridges still standing?

I saw crap that would curl your nose hair and pucker your butt so tightly you wouldn't be able to walk correctly.

I remember walking across the deck of one bridge and stopping to spit... through the fist sized hole in the deck and substructure and into the stream about 20 feet below.

And that was one of the better bridges.

A good decade before it was replaced the John P Grace Memorial bridge over the Cooper River down here in Charleston was rated a 4 out of 100 for safety.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Grace_Memorial_Bridge

I tried to find some news articles and couldn’t, but my father said it was not unknown for gaping holes to open up on the bridge deck due to crumbling ancient concrete on this bridge. For certain it was a bridge that made him extremely nervous to drive over and he had built countless bridges on the interstates up through NC and VA back when he was in construction.

[Fly320s]

Biden's scheduled appearance in the city... to talk about infrastructure, including bridges.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/us/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse-biden.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20220128&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=173503613&segment_id=80995&user_id=796ad5ceed0735e4916204f65ad66d5a

Let the conspiracy theories start!

No conspiracy needed.  The infrastructure of the US is old and starting to fail.  I have no problem with state or federal tax money being spent on fixing roads and bridges, but they need to do it with the money they already get. 

I wonder if the common use of salt on the roads is causing the roads and bridges to degrade quicker.

[Boomhauer]

No conspiracy needed.  The infrastructure of the US is old and starting to fail.  I have no problem with state or federal tax money being spent on fixing roads and bridges, but they need to do it with the money they already get. 

I wonder if the common use of salt on the roads is causing the roads and bridges to degrade quicker.

Yes salting the roads affects the bridges a lot plus the bridges probably get an extra dose of salt each time due to the nature of them freezing first.

What really pisses me off is knowing there is plenty of money spent for the purpose of repairing and replacing roads and bridges yet the politicians and corrupt administrators siphon most of it off. And when giant spending bills like Biden’s bullshit come up the *expletive deleted*ing shills come out of the woodwork trying to shame you for not wanting to pass them because anybody with any sense knows only a pittance is going to actually go for what the bill name claims.

The same goes for education.

[K Frame]

"I wonder if the common use of salt on the roads is causing the roads and bridges to degrade quicker."

Of course it is. Salt causes hundreds of millions of dollars of damage to roads, bridges, and other infrastructure a year.

What it does to your car? It does to structural steel in bridges and rebar in roadways.

Not to mention that salt brine from melt water gets into nooks and crevices in the structures and crystalizes, and those crystals exert an immense amount of pressure, leading to spalling, flaking, and out and out eruption of the surrounding concrete or asphalt.

Why do we still use salt? Because it's cheap and it's effective.

Things have gotten more logical over the past few decades with more localities employing brine as a pretreat. It doesn't require as much salt overall and it's very effective.

[HankB]

. . . What really pisses me off is knowing there is plenty of money spent for the purpose of repairing and replacing roads and bridges yet the politicians and corrupt administrators siphon most of it off . . . The same goes for education.

I grew up in Chicago. I saw both road and school corruption in action - repeatedly.

[Fly320s]

"I wonder if the common use of salt on the roads is causing the roads and bridges to degrade quicker."

Of course it is. Salt causes hundreds of millions of dollars of damage to roads, bridges, and other infrastructure a year.

What it does to your car? It does to structural steel in bridges and rebar in roadways.

Not to mention that salt brine from melt water gets into nooks and crevices in the structures and crystalizes, and those crystals exert an immense amount of pressure, leading to spalling, flaking, and out and out eruption of the surrounding concrete or asphalt.

Why do we still use salt? Because it's cheap and it's effective.

Things have gotten more logical over the past few decades with more localities employing brine as a pretreat. It doesn't require as much salt overall and it's very effective.

Which brings up my next point.  Is salting the roads more cost effective than not salting the roads?  Salting obviously causes the infrastructure to degrade more quickly, which means more money will need to be spent to maintain the roads and bridges.  Does spending that money on salt save money somwhere else? 

[cordex]

Presumably the money saved in lost lives, severe auto damage, and not closing down the economy every time there is a snowfall offsets the costs of the salt and salt damage.

[Hawkmoon]

Things have gotten more logical over the past few decades with more localities employing brine as a pretreat. It doesn't require as much salt overall and it's very effective.

That liquid salt stuff? You mean "liquid auto eater"? That stuff is liquid death for vehicles. Even with salt having been used on the roads around here ever since I can remember (and I'm less than a month away fro 78 years old), we didn't have a problem with brake lines rotting out in 2 to 4 years with regular road salt. We do now.

[K Frame]

"That liquid salt stuff? You mean "liquid auto eater"?"

The brine that's sprayed on the road is no worse than splashing through post storm melt puddles.

Wash your car.


"we didn't have a problem with brake lines rotting out in 2 to 4 years with regular road salt. We do now."

That's less a problem with the salt than the thinner lines they're using to save weight combined with the "environmentally friendly" anti-corrosion sprays they now use on cars because OMG OZONEDEPLETIONCANCERPLAGUEDEATHKILLINGTHEHIGHLYENDANGEREDBUNGFLY!

[Fly320s]

Presumably the money saved in lost lives, severe auto damage, and not closing down the economy every time there is a snowfall offsets the costs of the salt and salt damage.

The roads can still be plowed and sanded.  Just leave the salt out.

And drivers still have personal responsibility.  Winter/snow tires.  Tire chans.  Better driving skill.  Driving slower or not at all if the roads are bad.

[RoadKingLarry]

Better driving skill

You evil, misogynistic, racist, white supremacist!

 

[WLJ]

And drivers still have personal responsibility.

Something even criminals aren't expected to have anymore

[Ben]

Tire chans. 

I carry 4 tirechans.

[bedlamite]

The roads can still be plowed and sanded.  Just leave the salt out.

And drivers still have personal responsibility.  Winter/snow tires.  Tire chans.  Better driving skill.  Driving slower or not at all if the roads are bad.

^This.

[Ben]

^This.

I'm still a total Winter newbie, but in three seasons so far, All Terrain tires with the mountain symbol thingy, not braking and turning at the same time, slow and easy starts and stops, and driving slower (no matter how many bro dozers flip me off) have kept me between the ditches so far.

[Hawkmoon]

"That liquid salt stuff? You mean "liquid auto eater"?"

The brine that's sprayed on the road is no worse than splashing through post storm melt puddles.

Wash your car.


"we didn't have a problem with brake lines rotting out in 2 to 4 years with regular road salt. We do now."

That's less a problem with the salt than the thinner lines they're using to save weight combined with the "environmentally friendly" anti-corrosion sprays they now use on cars because OMG OZONEDEPLETIONCANCERPLAGUEDEATHKILLINGTHEHIGHLYENDANGEREDBUNGFLY!

You are overlooking the fact that the brine mix uses both sodium chloride and magnesium chloride. The magnesium chloride is much more corrosive than sodium chloride.

This article explains it, but you may have difficulty getting past their ad block detector:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/worse-than-salt-brine-sprayed-on-roads-will-munch-your-car-to-pieces/2015/02/22/b89294e6-b949-11e4-aa05-1ce812b3fdd2_story.html

[K Frame]

"You are overlooking the fact that the brine mix uses both sodium chloride and magnesium chloride. "

Uh, no, I'm not overlooking anything.

Municipalities on the East Coast have been using a combination of salt and other chlorides for years to gain better melting capabilities in low temperatures.

I can't see that.... Oh *expletive deleted*it. Every brake line on every car in my community just burst... 


On a more serious note, this morning around 5:15 I heard a loud bang. I figured Seren was doing something so I told her to settle down and went back to sleep.

As I was getting up my neighbor texts me a photo of a minivan in his side yard rammed into one of the nicer ornamental cherry trees we HAD (emphasis on past tense) in the community.

Police come, guy gives some BS story that the police don't buy.

So, they let him go home, get the car squared away, and go talk to him again... where they get the REAL story of what happened...

Turns out his son was driving, apparently going way too fast (obviously) on a narrow residential street, hit the curb and went down the bank and into the tree. REALLY smashed up the front end, blew a bunch of air bags. Probably totaled the van.

It certainly totaled the tree. Ripped it out by the roots. But, fortunately it was there because had the tree not stopped the van, it was heading right for my neighbors fireplace.

Anyway, turns out the son was... driving Dad's van, on a revoked license, because he had previous drunken driving convictions. No word on whether son was drunk and driving again, but let's do the math on that...

[French G.]

So was the guy a passenger in the van and allowed this to happen or did he show up after the fact specifically to lie to the cops?

[K Frame]

I'm not 100% sure whether the cops ran the license plate and called him and then went to talk to him or what. I'll need to talk to my neighbors again. The van ended up next to their house. Had it not hit the tree it would have gone straight into their fireplace.

Since the damage was to HOA property (the tree was on commons ground) we'll get a copy of the police report and I'll be able to see exactly what went on.

Be interesting to know if there are going to be any charges out of it because the son (driver) left the scene of the accident.

We're going to push for replacement of the tree that was destroyed since it was such a beautiful cherry. Probably be a couple of thousand.

The van itself has got to be toast. Bunch of air bags deployed and a lot of damage to the front end, one wheel was not  pointing in the correct direction, etc.

[RoadKingLarry]

We're going to push for replacement of the tree that was destroyed since it was such a beautiful cherry. Probably be a couple of thousand.

WTF kind of cherry tree gonna cost a couple of thousand?

https://www.plantingtree.com/collections/flowering-cherry-trees