Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!

[charby]

Also, the irony of quoting a guy who opposed the Civil Rights Act in a thread about how people that oppose gay marriage are hateful bigots is truly lulz worthy.

Goldwater changed his beliefs overtime, he became quite the independent thinker after his failed presidential election.

[Perd Hapley]

How so, articulate yourself better? I really don't understand your point or are you just trying to irritate me.

Sigh. Maybe I'll give it a try when I get home.

Does anyone else care to explain this to charb? Seems pretty obvious to me.

[MillCreek]

So Balog, what do space aliens think about the gay issue?

[MillCreek]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/23/christian-radio-host-charged-sex-probe/11251795/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28USATODAY+-+News+Top+Stories%29

Uh oh.  Underage boys and child pornography.

[onions!]

^^local^^to a few of us.
http://woodtv.com/2014/06/23/wcsg-general-manager-addresses-balyo-arrest/
More reading here.
Some of the comments in this ^ link seem almost verbatim to comments in this thread.You guys get around!
 

[cordex]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/23/christian-radio-host-charged-sex-probe/11251795/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28USATODAY+-+News+Top+Stories%29

Uh oh.  Underage boys and child pornography.

When it comes to being a child predator, is his professed religion of more or less relevance than his professed sexual orientation?

[Perd Hapley]

When it comes to being a child predator, is his professed religion of more or less relevance than his professed sexual orientation?

Zing!

[Perd Hapley]

I was just dumping my feelings towards folks who ravenously judge people which they are in disagreement with. Usually in the name of their own version/interpretation of a popular religion. Sometimes to the point of extreme prejudice that they start to consider the people they judge to be subhuman to themselves and want to deny them the freedoms they hold dear to themselves. Even go so far as use emotional subjective views to point out that these different people are even a poisonous menace to society and need to be controlled so the infestation is stopped.

OK, charby? The bolded part there? That describes your tone on social conservatives. With the ridiculous assertion that they are allegedly "preaching hate," and allegedly not preaching "love and forgiveness." Not to mention what you said right above that, about dehumanizing people and denying them freedoms. And, of course, the numerous posts in which you blame them for screwing up the Republican Party. That is all malarky and projection. The so-cons are your bogeymen, which you like to paint as a menace they simply are not. Exhibit D: doubling down with the attempt to tar us with the God Hates Fags brush.

[charby]

OK, charby? The bolded part there? That describes your tone on social conservatives. With the ridiculous assertion that they are allegedly "preaching hate," and allegedly not preaching "love and forgiveness." Not to mention what you said right above that, about dehumanizing people and denying them freedoms. And, of course, the numerous posts in which you blame them for screwing up the Republican Party. That is all malarky and projection. The so-cons are your bogeymen, which you like to paint as a menace they simply are not. Exhibit D: doubling down with the attempt to tar us with the God Hates Fags brush.

Barry Goldwater seemed to have felt the same way I did. Honestly I think the So Cons have ruined the party, alienated some people with their extreme issues and will not direct focus at the real problems. Maybe the So Cons needs to police their own and tell the radical ones to stay home and quit getting involved with politics. I quit my local party because the radical So Cons got involved and we started to go from tax relief, business friendly, 2nd amendment stuff and balanced budget to only being focused on marriage is one man/one woman and gotta make abortion illegal again. I'm sorry those battles have been fought and the so cons lost, get over it.

I take you have never been to a county/district/state convention for the GOP? 4-5 hours of it is radical So Cons taking over the mike because the platform is not socially conservative enough.

[TommyGunn]

Goldwater was one of the more prominent American politicians to openly show an interest in UFOs.

[Strings]

>Thanks for proving my point. Surely, in the 21st century, this canard about religion being more hateful or violent than the alternative is so thoroughly debunked that we need not go through the motions again.<

Depends on how you term "religious views". If you take it as "beliefs concerning Deity", then you would be correct. However, I would argue that a new definition might be called for: "beliefs that have no foundation in provable fact". Using that, "religion" can be said to be responsible for most of the death and destruction of the 20th century (and the hatred currently spewed by the SJW crowd)

> I'm sorry those battles have been fought and the so cons lost, get over it.<

I wouldn't use that phrasing. I WOULD suggest that those issues need to be back-burnered a bit, or even used as political bargaining chips

ie: "You want gay marriage? Cool... Full Faith and Credit. But in return, and CCW is accepted anywhere in the country". "You want to abolish the death penalty? Ok... give us restrictions on abortion". you know... actual compromise...

[Perd Hapley]

Barry Goldwater seemed to have felt the same way I did. Honestly I think the So Cons have ruined the party, alienated some people with their extreme issues and will not direct focus at the real problems. Maybe the So Cons needs to police their own and tell the radical ones to stay home and quit getting involved with politics. I quit my local party because the radical So Cons got involved and we started to go from tax relief, business friendly, 2nd amendment stuff and balanced budget to only being focused on marriage is one man/one woman and gotta make abortion illegal again. I'm sorry those battles have been fought and the so cons lost, get over it.

I take you have never been to a county/district/state convention for the GOP? 4-5 hours of it is radical So Cons taking over the mike because the platform is not socially conservative enough.

Well, good for St. Barry. I guess we should just all shut up about the million-some children being "legally" murdered each year. That's obviously not a real problem.

Look, what do you expect from a party that was founded on, and succeeded on, the social issue of slavery? Are you not aware that they were called Radical_Republicans at the time? So if you think that denouncing the slaughter of unborn children is extreme or radical, and you think the GOP should turn its back on another progressive crusade to restore the rights of a helpless people, then by all means distance yourself from the "Radical Republicans."

[charby]

Well, good for St. Barry. I guess we should just all shut up about the million-some children being "legally" murdered each year. That's obviously not a real problem.

Look, what do you expect from a party that was founded on, and succeeded on, the social issue of slavery? Are you not aware that they were called Radical_Republicans at the time? So if you think that denouncing the slaughter of unborn children is extreme or radical, and you think the GOP should turn its back on another progressive crusade to restore the rights of a helpless people, then by all means distance yourself from the "Radical Republicans."

Do you really think abortion will ever be illegal in your lifetime or your children's lifetime?

More states are going to allow gay marriage in our lifetimes, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes legal in all 50 states before 2040.

[Perd Hapley]

So you're saying the Republican Party should be pro-slavery, if that comes back into vogue.  

Do you really think abortion will ever be illegal in your lifetime or your children's lifetime?

More states are going to allow gay marriage in our lifetimes, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes legal in all 50 states before 2040.

Do you really think Mr. Goldwater would ever have thought same-sex unions would be legally considered marriages within fifty years? The smart money certainly was not betting on it, back in 1964.

Balog already dealt pretty handily with this stupid idea of the battle being lost.

As for the battle being lost, by that account the battle is equally lost on illegal immigration, reducing the size and scope of fed.gov, fiscal conservatism etc. Are you going to stop fighting for them?

Or in other words, it was not over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. We don't know what's going to happen. Foes of abortion are making great strides, and may win, yet. As I pointed out earlier, it's absurd to suggest that same-sex marriage, as a legal reality, is here to stay. It appeared almost overnight. It could disappear as easily.

[Perd Hapley]

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

Oh, whine, whine, whine. You're a politician. People want you to represent their view. You don't like it? Get out.

I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?

Uh, you don't like preachers telling you what to believe, or what to do?  What exactly do you think their job is?

And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism.

   Oh teh noes! I'm a Senator, and people try to get me to vote their way! Oh nooooooooooo!

What a cry baby.

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

Yeah, 'cause Christians are so terrible at democracy. Who taught this guy world history?

When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.

Yeah, OK, whatever.

The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay. You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it.[/i]

Meh. OK, sure.


I'm beginning to understand why they thought he was too unhinged to have his finger on the button.

[charby]

Fistful, I think you are grasping at straws now.

[roo_ster]

Fistful, I think you are grasping at straws now.

nah he hit close to the mark. 

you whined about subjectivity and made assumptions of bad faith when faced with objective arguments and then vented your spleen with nary a datum in a subjective dump of your own. 

what might have made your argument interesting would have been surveys or some sort of data indicating the level of support in the gop socon community for the westboro baptist church.  or something meaty other than images of a dead democrat civil rights lawyer and his family church tax dodge and lawsuit mill. 

but i suspect the data is not supportive of your assertions and examining it is less satisfying than baseless accusations of hatey hate mchate with a side of barry goldwater.

[charby]

what might have made your argument interesting would have been surveys or some sort of data indicating the level of support in the gop socon community for the westboro baptist church.  or something meaty other than images of a dead democrat civil rights lawyer and his family church tax dodge and lawsuit mill. 

I don't think that data exists, or if it does it is not available. That would be very damning of the SoCons from everyone else.

I used to be like many of you, dig in when my religion was criticized, get pissed and use God and the bible to defend my beliefs, then one day I realized that the critics are on to something. Hate does present itself in the name of God by people who call themselves Christians. Doesn't mean that I am not a Christian, also doesn't mean my eyes are wide shut either. I think getting a balanced budget, reducing debt, getting people back to work with a living wage and reducing entitlements for folks who can't mange for themselves with a little push is a lot more Christian than getting all huffy and puffy about people of the same sex marrying each other.

[Perd Hapley]

Fistful, I think you are grasping at straws now.

In what way?


But, yeah, a living wage is a great, Christian idea. If by Christian, you refer to old-world serfdom. More regressive politics. 


For the record, I get not the least bit huffy about men marrying each other. Never have. I do get a bit huffy when good people are smeared as bigots for just minding their own business, sometimes literally, and sticking to marriage's actual definition. Sorry, I just don't think sane people should be told to stay in the closet, and I figure they should be defended from hateful people.

[charby]

In what way?

Saying that GOP should go back to the party of slavery.

[Balog]

Hate and discrimination are bad, unless they are being directed at Christians who actually believe that the Bible is anything more than a collection of fairy tales we can learn some good lessons from.

Do you really think abortion will ever be illegal in your lifetime or your children's lifetime?

Two things.

1. If anyone had asked you in the 80's or 90's if gay marriage (or marijuana for that matter) would be getting legalized in a few years, do you really think many people would have believed it possible?

2. If one believes that life begins at conception, and that abortion is a genocidal slaughter orders of magnitude worse than the holocaust, should they really just stop opposing it? Just shrug, say "Well it seems unlikely we'll get everything we want any time soon, guess we better stop fighting."?

Saying that GOP should go back to the party of slavery.

That's CSD levels of obtuse. He was pointing out that the roots of the party was in radical socons striving for something that seemed unachievable.

[Perd Hapley]

He was pointing out that the roots of the party was in radical socons striving for something that seemed unachievable.

Well, sort of. The anti-slavery plank of the party was progressive (and not usually radical), just as it's anti-abortion plank is today. I'm not sure that deregulating same-sex marriage (instead of codifying it) can really be called progressive. That would imply that same-sex marriage actually leads somewhere; instead of being a biological, social, and intellectual dead end.

[cordex]

I'm not sure that deregulating same-sex marriage (instead of codifying it) can really be called progressive. That would imply that same-sex marriage actually leads somewhere; instead of being a biological, social, and intellectual dead end.

In charby's defense, same-sex marriage is hardly the most immoral, unjust or dangerous thing that government could or does do - even compared to what goes on already as business as usual. Sure, he wins no friends by expressing it as "You retarded socons are ruining it for everyone by being so concerned about stupid things that don't bother me!!!", but even so he is correct inasmuch as the subject of same sex marriage isn't particularly threatening compared to many other valid concerns.

[onions!]

So how many generations before the same sex marriage folks (lack of)breed themselves into an insignificant number?

Assuming that there are many now that want to marry but society has "made"them live in the closet.Or at least live a lifestyle other than what they "want".

[cordex]

So how many generations before the same sex marriage folks (lack of)breed themselves into an insignificant number?

Homosexuality has likely existed for as long as humanity has. Certainly for recorded history. I don't think that will change with or without marriage.

Assuming that there are many now that want to marry but society has "made"them live in the closet.Or at least live a lifestyle other than what they "want".

As I said earlier: nothing prevents a same sex couple from living in a committed and exclusive marriage-like relationship without legal recognition. Marriage simply confers certain legal obligations and benefits.