Author Topic: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!  (Read 92411 times)

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,432
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #200 on: June 24, 2014, 09:00:32 PM »
In charby's defense, same-sex marriage is hardly the most immoral, unjust or dangerous thing that government could or does do - even compared to what goes on already as business as usual. Sure, he wins no friends by expressing it as "You retarded socons are ruining it for everyone by being so concerned about stupid things that don't bother me!!!", but even so he is correct inasmuch as the subject of same sex marriage isn't particularly threatening compared to many other valid concerns.


Just speaking for myself, that's not among my main points of disagreement with charby. It has more to do with the mischaracterization of those he disagrees with, and mischaracterization of the issues involved. For example, the notion that same-sex marriage is not just inevitable, but here to stay.

Then there is the idea that abortion simply cannot be fought. Hence the comparison with slavery.

But to disagree with you and charb a wee bit, there is more danger to our government recognizing same-sex marriage than you might think. Obviously, the "homophobes" are already being herded into the closet. In some cases, governments are even enforcing this. Besides that, there is the effect of making up patently absurd things (like same-sex marriages), declaring them a human right, and working them into our government. That cannot be good.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

onions!

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,188
  • Space for rent.
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #201 on: June 24, 2014, 09:10:01 PM »
Homosexuality has likely existed for as long as humanity has. Certainly for recorded history. I don't think that will change with or without marriage.
As I said earlier: nothing prevents a same sex couple from living in a committed and exclusive marriage-like relationship without legal recognition. Marriage simply confers certain legal obligations and benefits.
I should have explained better.
I believe that a certain percentage of the population,since their has been a population,has either identified as gay or maybe bi.I don't believe that the percentage has changed a whole lot over the natural course of history.I'm with you there.

The people I'm curious about are those that choose to be gay for whatever reason(trendy,needy,whiney,& the other four),those that might be bi,and those that may feel peer pressure to be gay.Some of these are in the actual gay group but I believe that lots are not.

So,if gay marriage becomes universally accepted,just how long before it becomes statistically irrelevant?I'm assuming that,once it's been off the radar for a few years,the strident gay rights folks will have a new cause and thru natural attrition(have you noticed just how many gays that want to marry-and are in the news-are old?like 50's-70's old)including age and "divorce"  the numbers will whittle down.Then their will likely be the same percentage of gays,some of which will want to "marry".

I guess that I'm assuming that people are genetically predisposed to their sexual preference.Since they don't breed will their percentage decrease?
jeff w

I like onions!

zahc

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,799
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #202 on: June 24, 2014, 09:24:19 PM »
I should have explained better.
I believe that a certain percentage of the population,since their has been a population,has either identified as gay or maybe bi.I don't believe that the percentage has changed a whole lot over the natural course of history.I'm with you there.

The people I'm curious about are those that choose to be gay for whatever reason(trendy,needy,whiney,& the other four),those that might be bi,and those that may feel peer pressure to be gay.Some of these are in the actual gay group but I believe that lots are not.

So,if gay marriage becomes universally accepted,just how long before it becomes statistically irrelevant?I'm assuming that,once it's been off the radar for a few years,the strident gay rights folks will have a new cause and thru natural attrition(have you noticed just how many gays that want to marry-and are in the news-are old?like 50's-70's old)including age and "divorce"  the numbers will whittle down.Then their will likely be the same percentage of gays,some of which will want to "marry".

I guess that I'm assuming that people are genetically predisposed to their sexual preference.Since they don't breed will their percentage decrease?

Answers to many of these questions will depend on what happens to the market for women. I don't think it has truly stabilized yet but when it does it will surely be less favorable than the pre-birth-control one.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
--Tallpine

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,631
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #203 on: June 24, 2014, 09:46:13 PM »
It has more to do with the mischaracterization of those he disagrees with, and mischaracterization of the issues involved.
Okay.

But to disagree with you and charb a wee bit, there is more danger to our government recognizing same-sex marriage than you might think. Obviously, the "homophobes" are already being herded into the closet. In some cases, governments are even enforcing this.
I still maintain that compared to most governmental actions, legal recognition of same-sex marriage is positively tame.  Are some people going to be shamed into concealing their beliefs on the subject?  Sure, but that's not a legal issue, that's cultural pressure.  Are some folks going to be in legal trouble for not making cupcakes for a gay wedding or something?  Sure, and that's wrong, but it doesn't even break into the worst thousand government intrusions into our lives.

I should have explained better.
I believe that a certain percentage of the population,since their has been a population,has either identified as gay or maybe bi.I don't believe that the percentage has changed a whole lot over the natural course of history.I'm with you there.

The people I'm curious about are those that choose to be gay for whatever reason(trendy,needy,whiney,& the other four),those that might be bi,and those that may feel peer pressure to be gay.Some of these are in the actual gay group but I believe that lots are not.

So,if gay marriage becomes universally accepted,just how long before it becomes statistically irrelevant?I'm assuming that,once it's been off the radar for a few years,the strident gay rights folks will have a new cause and thru natural attrition(have you noticed just how many gays that want to marry-and are in the news-are old?like 50's-70's old)including age and "divorce"  the numbers will whittle down.Then their will likely be the same percentage of gays,some of which will want to "marry".

I guess that I'm assuming that people are genetically predisposed to their sexual preference.Since they don't breed will their percentage decrease?
So you're asking if they win on the major gay issues, will many of the joiners move on to protecting the civil rights and cultural acceptance of furries or whatever is next?  Yeah, probably.

fifth_column

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,705
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #204 on: June 25, 2014, 09:22:12 AM »
I should have explained better.
I believe that a certain percentage of the population,since their has been a population,has either identified as gay or maybe bi.I don't believe that the percentage has changed a whole lot over the natural course of history.I'm with you there.

The people I'm curious about are those that choose to be gay for whatever reason(trendy,needy,whiney,& the other four),those that might be bi,and those that may feel peer pressure to be gay.Some of these are in the actual gay group but I believe that lots are not.

So,if gay marriage becomes universally accepted,just how long before it becomes statistically irrelevant?I'm assuming that,once it's been off the radar for a few years,the strident gay rights folks will have a new cause and thru natural attrition(have you noticed just how many gays that want to marry-and are in the news-are old?like 50's-70's old)including age and "divorce"  the numbers will whittle down.Then their will likely be the same percentage of gays,some of which will want to "marry".

I guess that I'm assuming that people are genetically predisposed to their sexual preference.Since they don't breed will their percentage decrease?

Pure speculation on my part:  If the bolded were the case,wouldn't it have happened already?

More speculation:  Considering what I've seen and experienced of today's younger generation I expect polygamy to be legal within 50 years, perhaps less.  The "youngsters nowadays" are, from what I've noticed, much more open about their sexuality and much more willing to cross traditional gender lines.  I don't think it's my place to say whether it's a good or a bad thing. 

Please keep in mind I'm not saying this is a universal truth, just impressions I've gleaned from my limited experience:  I'm just musing out loud here . . .
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. ― Frederick Douglass

No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people.  -  Catherine Engelbrecht

Strings

  • APS Pimp
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,195
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #205 on: June 25, 2014, 01:54:37 PM »
>More speculation:  Considering what I've seen and experienced of today's younger generation I expect polygamy to be legal within 50 years, perhaps less.  The "youngsters nowadays" are, from what I've noticed, much more open about their sexuality and much more willing to cross traditional gender lines.  I don't think it's my place to say whether it's a good or a bad thing. <

If you'll pardon the pun, I think this could go either way. We COULD see the next generation take power and wholesale legalize gay marriage and polygamy.

Alternatively, given some of the problems involved in a multi-partner relationship*, we could see this generation backlash against the concept

*think "normal relationship issues". Multiply exponentially for every "extra" partner involved
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #206 on: June 25, 2014, 02:11:53 PM »
>More speculation:  Considering what I've seen and experienced of today's younger generation I expect polygamy to be legal within 50 years, perhaps less.  The "youngsters nowadays" are, from what I've noticed, much more open about their sexuality and much more willing to cross traditional gender lines.  I don't think it's my place to say whether it's a good or a bad thing. <

If you'll pardon the pun, I think this could go either way. We COULD see the next generation take power and wholesale legalize gay marriage and polygamy.

Alternatively, given some of the problems involved in a multi-partner relationship*, we could see this generation backlash against the concept

*think "normal relationship issues". Multiply exponentially for every "extra" partner involved

Seems like many of the biblical male folks had concubines. So why not??  [popcorn]
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

onions!

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,188
  • Space for rent.
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #207 on: June 25, 2014, 02:19:51 PM »
Maybe I'm strange but when I first heard of "gay marriage"a few years back I remember thinking that polygamy,as legal and acceptable,would naturally follow.

I think it could work.I know there'd be problems.I'd support it.

One man with multiple wives yes.A wife with multiple husbands though?I dunno.
jeff w

I like onions!

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,432
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #208 on: June 25, 2014, 02:22:12 PM »
Seems like many of the biblical male folks had concubines. So why not??  [popcorn]


Well, they presumably also had slaves. Or were slaves. [popcorn]
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #209 on: June 25, 2014, 02:26:00 PM »
Maybe I'm strange but when I first heard of "gay marriage"a few years back I remember thinking that polygamy,as legal and acceptable,would naturally follow.

I think it could work.I know there'd be problems.I'd support it.

One man with multiple wives yes.A wife with multiple husbands though?I dunno.

Ok, since people are continuing on in this, I'll respond to the joke from Charby:

Seems like many of the biblical male folks had concubines. So why not??  [popcorn]

They also had multiple wives in addition to concubines. I'll note for you, though, that there is no positive story associated with multiple wives and concubines:

Abraham and Hagar: We're still dealing with that sibling rivalry
Jacob and Rachel and Leah: Oh yeah, 10 of your kids deciding to off another of them because he's your favorite makes for great family relations
David: Have you seen how messed up that family was? His expected heir rapes his half-sister, gets murdered by his half-brother who then leads a rebellion against him.
Solomon: We've reached a whole 'nother level of disfunction here. (Seriously, 1000 women?)

It's not a good advertisement for polygamy.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #210 on: June 25, 2014, 02:30:20 PM »
Ok, since people are continuing on in this, I'll respond to the joke from Charby:

They also had multiple wives in addition to concubines. I'll note for you, though, that there is no positive story associated with multiple wives and concubines:

Abraham and Hagar: We're still dealing with that sibling rivalry
Jacob and Rachel and Leah: Oh yeah, 10 of your kids deciding to off another of them because he's your favorite makes for great family relations
David: Have you seen how messed up that family was? His expected heir rapes his half-sister, gets murdered by his half-brother who then leads a rebellion against him.
Solomon: We've reached a whole 'nother level of disfunction here. (Seriously, 1000 women?)

It's not a good advertisement for polygamy.

I'm glad you saw it as a joke. It is hard enough keeping sane living with one wife, I couldn't imagine 2 or more.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #211 on: June 25, 2014, 02:31:07 PM »

Well, they presumably also had slaves. Or were slaves. [popcorn]

I'm bigger, stronger and more well armed than you. Make me a Sammich!

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

Strings

  • APS Pimp
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,195
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #212 on: June 25, 2014, 02:31:39 PM »
So long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, I'm fine with polygamy
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #213 on: June 25, 2014, 02:39:07 PM »
So long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, I'm fine with polygamy

As a living arrangement, or as a legally recognized entity? Seems like it'd be a hell of a way to scam benefits, healthcare coverage etc. I wonder how that'd work for tax purposes "The 15 people in this polyamorous marriage have 45 children, and all of us claim all of them as dependents."
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

onions!

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,188
  • Space for rent.
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #214 on: June 25, 2014, 02:40:47 PM »
The only problem,that I see,with polygamy would be in the legal definition.
Traditionally it'd be one man with more than one woman.(I'm o.k. with this one)
One woman with multiple men would be a new one.(My sexist male self doesn't like this but I acknowledge that if a man can have wives a woman can have husbands so,O.K.)
I see the problems when these unions/marriages/whatever they end up being called include something like MMMWW.Or some such.(egos,jealosy,hurt feelings,a straight woman sharing her husband with another man?That's Jerry Springer territory there.)

I dunno.Maybe marriages should be short term legal contracts(was that Heinlein or Niven?Or both?) with an option for extensions.
jeff w

I like onions!

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #215 on: June 25, 2014, 03:14:49 PM »
Pure speculation on my part:  If the bolded were the case,wouldn't it have happened already?

More speculation:  Considering what I've seen and experienced of today's younger generation I expect polygamy to be legal within 50 years, perhaps less.  The "youngsters nowadays" are, from what I've noticed, much more open about their sexuality and much more willing to cross traditional gender lines.  I don't think it's my place to say whether it's a good or a bad thing. 

Please keep in mind I'm not saying this is a universal truth, just impressions I've gleaned from my limited experience:  I'm just musing out loud here . . .

Maybe it will be a straight line, onwards and upwards into Big Gay Al's Fabulous Future.  OTOH, maybe not.

Prosperity
Anti-normative behaviors are like obesity, heart disease, gout, and other diseases of affluence.  They multiply in times of affluence and atrophy when times get tough.  Folk don't have time for such when they don't know where their next meal is coming from or if they have to worry about random violence.  And they are less likely to test the patience and tolerance of friends, family, and neighbors is such situations.  Solitary people without a blood-tie community are less likely to survive.  If our economic system takes a serious hit, such trends will slow or reverse.  For example:
1. Peak of Roman Empire vs the tribulations of Rome's decay and the follow-on Germanic kingdoms.
2. 1920s vs 1930s America. 


Fourth Great Awakening
Periods of hedonism and dissipation many times are followed by periods of re-dedication to an objective and eternal moral code.  We have had three thus far in America.  We may have another before America crumbles and is swept into the dust bin of history. 


Islam
Although some muslims in some places practice homosexuality and pederasty with abandon, most of the more orthodox sort take a dim view of it.  Pim Fortyun, the Dutch politician and homosexual pederast who called for closing the border to any more muslim immigrants because he feared more muslims would endanger his sexual activities (among other reasons).  Given that when orthodox muslims took power they would put homosexuals and pederasts on trial and then kill them, he has a point.  We see more & more muslim influence on european society and social policy.  It remains to be seen if it will win out.  the two alternatives are:
1. Islam triumphs
Or, alternately, the West commits suicide and Islam moves into the vacuum.  Expect homosexuality in all its manifestations to be re-criminalized and those places where it has infiltrated social mores to be rooted out.
2. Ethno-Nationalist Resurgence.
We do see ethno-nationalism gaining strength to fight against the progressive project (which includes mass immigration and western decline).  From UKIP in the UK to Golden Dawn in Greece, it is currently waxing in influence.  If it triumphs or influences the other parties, this might attenuate muslim infiltration and influence.  Not all of these have a socially conservative element, but some do, so continuation of the trend to more & more dissipation is indeterminate.




Polygamy

I'm bigger, stronger and more well armed than you. Make me a Sammich!


Well, they presumably also had slaves. Or were slaves. [popcorn]

Pretty much.

Polygamy is a stable arrangement only when men are almost completely dominant and women chattel or near-chattel.  None of that-thar silly suffrage or equality (under the law or anywhere).  Otherwise, too many egos and agendas and personalities like strings mentioned.

Were it to become more common and more normalized, the taxpayer would soon become a party to the relationship as the taxpayer would pay the clean-up bills and most the other costs.  We see some of this in the underclass with males knocking up several women in series or parallel and each woman and child getting on welfare.  We also see the welfare-usage in the polygamous Mormon offshoots.


Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Strings

  • APS Pimp
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,195
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #216 on: June 25, 2014, 03:23:35 PM »
Keep in mind that I HAVE seen such relationships work, and work well. Even once the family had kids (damn kids had more caregivers than you can imagine).

But it is a LOT of work for everyone involved
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

White Horseradish

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,792
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #217 on: June 25, 2014, 04:55:51 PM »
Abraham and Hagar: We're still dealing with that sibling rivalry
Which totally never happens in monogamous marriages

Jacob and Rachel and Leah: Oh yeah, 10 of your kids deciding to off another of them because he's your favorite makes for great family relations
I'm pretty sure European history is littered with such examples from the times when people had more kids.

David: Have you seen how messed up that family was? His expected heir rapes his half-sister, gets murdered by his half-brother who then leads a rebellion against him.
Again, seems par for the course for any royalty, monogamous or not

Except Solomon, I don't see how any of this dysfunction is specific to polygamy. Seems like it's a thing that can happen in any large family, especially in the upper echelons of power.
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

Robert A Heinlein

erictank

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,410
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #218 on: June 26, 2014, 09:09:00 AM »
As a living arrangement, or as a legally recognized entity? Seems like it'd be a hell of a way to scam benefits, healthcare coverage etc. I wonder how that'd work for tax purposes "The 15 people in this polyamorous marriage have 45 children, and all of us claim all of them as dependents."

"Married filing jointly."

Problem is... what, exactly? X number of incomes (15, in this case), with Y exemptions (personal and child-based) spread over them... yeah, seems like a total non-issue to me. Sure, there would have to be rules about who gets to claim which child(ren) if such an arrangement did NOT file "Married filing jointly", but they have to do that now for 2 divorced parents who may or may not be married to other people (or even some who are still married to one another, hence "Married filing separately"). Taxes seem to me to be something not worth worrying about, in this case.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #219 on: June 26, 2014, 09:33:42 AM »
"Married filing jointly."

Problem is... what, exactly? X number of incomes (15, in this case), with Y exemptions (personal and child-based) spread over them... yeah, seems like a total non-issue to me. Sure, there would have to be rules about who gets to claim which child(ren) if such an arrangement did NOT file "Married filing jointly", but they have to do that now for 2 divorced parents who may or may not be married to other people (or even some who are still married to one another, hence "Married filing separately"). Taxes seem to me to be something not worth worrying about, in this case.

That may be do-able, but it is more likely to devolve into a welfare scam.  I am just not into making it easier or more acceptable for more folks to hop in the wagon for the taxpayers to pull forward.  Enough, already.  We have quite enough pro-dysgenic policies, thanks. 

Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,631
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #220 on: June 26, 2014, 09:49:03 AM »
That may be do-able, but it is more likely to devolve into a welfare scam.  I am just not into making it easier or more acceptable for more folks to hop in the wagon for the taxpayers to pull forward.  Enough, already.  We have quite enough pro-dysgenic policies, thanks. 
I'm pretty sure that our progressive tax code would actually make plural marriages unappealing from a tax perspective, and unless the tax code were heavily modified to favor them I don't think plural marriages are the likeliest concern when it comes to welfare scams.  Certainly not more than regular marriages are now, or even unmarried couples who live together but remain unmarried so the mother can collect extra support.

fifth_column

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,705
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #221 on: June 26, 2014, 10:08:02 AM »
It's interesting to me that the main concerns being expressed here regarding polygamy are emotional and tax related.  While the concerns regarding gay marriage are moral and societal. 

I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly just noticing.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will... The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. ― Frederick Douglass

No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people.  -  Catherine Engelbrecht

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #222 on: June 26, 2014, 10:29:43 AM »
It's interesting to me that the main concerns being expressed here regarding polygamy are emotional and tax related.  While the concerns regarding gay marriage are moral and societal. 

I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly just noticing.

I noticed that also.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #223 on: June 26, 2014, 11:07:30 AM »
It's interesting to me that the main concerns being expressed here regarding polygamy are emotional and tax related.  While the concerns regarding gay marriage are moral and societal.  

I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly just noticing.

I haven't made an argument against polygamy because I didn't think we had begun that argument. I merely pointed out that the record of polygamy was not an exemplary one in the Old Testament.

However, my argument against polygamy is the exact same argument that I have against homosexual marriage:

The state has an interest in promoting the (actual) institution of marriage because it creates a stable family structure that has shown to be the best environment for raising progeny. (Please let's not redebate the whole "BUT SOMETIMES CHILDREN OF DIVORCES/GAYPARENTS/DRUGADDICTS/FURRYLOVERS TURN OUT BETTER THAN WITH TWO BIOLOGICAL PARENTS!")

Homosexual unions do not provide that same structure. (At best, you can say the data is mixed. I think it's clearly shown the environment to be detrimental.) Polygamous unions suffer similarly.

It is, therefore, not in the interest of the state to promote those unions. We can argue on whether they ought to be actually outlawed (as homosexual unions are nowhere in the country and polygamous unions are everywhere in the country), but the state has no compelling interest to promote and recognize them.

But, instead, the judiciary has decided that it is a compelling interest of the state to both promote homosexual unions and to penalize any who think their unions are detrimental.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #224 on: June 26, 2014, 11:34:09 AM »
I haven't made an argument against polygamy because I didn't think we had begun that argument. I merely pointed out that the record of polygamy was not an exemplary one in the Old Testament.

However, my argument against polygamy is the exact same argument that I have against homosexual marriage:

The state has an interest in promoting the (actual) institution of marriage because it creates a stable family structure that has shown to be the best environment for raising progeny. (Please let's not redebate the whole "BUT SOMETIMES CHILDREN OF DIVORCES/GAYPARENTS/DRUGADDICTS/FURRYLOVERS TURN OUT BETTER THAN WITH TWO BIOLOGICAL PARENTS!")

Homosexual unions do not provide that same structure. (At best, you can say the data is mixed. I think it's clearly shown the environment to be detrimental.) Polygamous unions suffer similarly.

It is, therefore, not in the interest of the state to promote those unions. We can argue on whether they ought to be actually outlawed (as homosexual unions are nowhere in the country and polygamous unions are everywhere in the country), but the state has no compelling interest to promote and recognize them.

But, instead, the judiciary has decided that it is a compelling interest of the state to both promote homosexual unions and to penalize any who think their unions are detrimental.

Pretty much that ^^^. 

Just because I argue one angle doesn't mean I have no other objections.

Me: "I don't like the BATFE's uniforms." 
Other: "Then you are OK with the harassment of FFLs and prosecution of paperwork errors?"
Me: <Give Other the YGTBSM look>
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton