Author Topic: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!  (Read 92411 times)

TommyGunn

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #300 on: July 02, 2014, 12:48:02 PM »
Why don't we just ban sex altogether?

Nobody has any children, and we all die out, bickering over who gets to judge who and who goes where when they die.
And rooster, if you want to equate homosexuals with pediphiles, maybe you should up the anti to Rad Fem and start pushing to ban heteosexual men, since those guys are most likely to rape a woman.
Point: pediphilia is just another form of rape. It's not about orientation and it never has been. You sound just like those Rad Fems who blather about all straight men being rapists.

First good idea in this thread!
Somehow I don't think it's enforceable ..... but hey, it WAS an IDEA! [tinfoil]
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makattak

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #301 on: July 02, 2014, 01:43:12 PM »
The culture that holds sway over our government is the culture that holds the power of coercion. Government uses brute force to impose its world view. Cultural Christianity has to some degree historically wielded that blunt object of persuasion just by nature of the fact that a majority were culturally Christian. The worm has turned and I would say a cultural shift has occurred. The basic world view of the majority no longer line up with the historic cultural Christian consensus.

Christians have compromised themselves and supported activist government since the very beginning of our country. Being the majority in the culture blinded us to the potential dangers. The lie that as long as the correct people were in authority moving the levers of power we would be alright was bought hook line and sinker.  We will now reap the whirlwind of straying away from a purely classical liberal limited government model. Someone else is taking a turn at those levers, they aren't Christian but they are still moralizing busy bodies. Just not the morality of which we are accustomed.

Without the restraint of Christian morality, we would never have had as limited a government as we did. Christians aren't "reaping the whirlwind" for something that would never have existed absent them in the first place.
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Ron

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #302 on: July 02, 2014, 02:03:32 PM »
Without the restraint of Christian morality, we would never have had as limited a government as we did. Christians aren't "reaping the whirlwind" for something that would never have existed absent them in the first place.

I tend to agree that a good and moral people are necessary to a free society. Soon we will find out whether a culture that dumps its traditional Christian presuppositions regarding life and ethics can remain free in any real sense. We have lost a lot of liberty but there is a boatload more we can lose.

This is a slow motion train wreck. The core of cultural Christianity was hollowed first with the New Deal then the Great Society. Cultural Christians were able to put the burden of taking care of others on to the government from off their shoulders. This allowed them to feel good about themselves without personally doing anything (other than paying their "fair" share). Dumping the "do's and don'ts" was the next burden the cultural Christian worked on eliminating. It took a while for post modernism to work its magic but it's finally bearing fruit. Nearly all our major Christian sects are in internal conflict; with post modern ideology supplanting traditional philosophy/theology.

The ethical failings and moral confusion found in modern American Christianity is in large part do to the conflation of being a cultural Christian with being an actual true believer in a living God. The more I think about this the more I come to believe an even more radical separation between between "church" and state is necessary. 

      

« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 02:12:09 PM by Ron »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #303 on: July 02, 2014, 06:30:51 PM »
As such, I look at it like this:  Nobody here has pointed out how gay marriages harm them

Red herring.
If anyone in this thread were trying to stop same-sex couples from doing anything, then they might feel obligated to explain such. As has been pointed out at least a dozen times over the past few years, it is the other side that wants to change the law, change an ancient concept, change our culture, etc. They are the ones who must explain why the government should care that two men are pretending to marry one another. The traditionalists, at this point, have shown themselves perfectly willing to let the two men live their own lives as the two men see fit. The traditionalists owe no one an explanation, as they are not the ones proposing bizarre changes.

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Closest I see are slippery slope arguments.  Thus it becomes a question of religious freedom - on the one hand a group wants the ability to get married.  On the other side a group wants to prevent that.  An imposition on THEIR religion.  It reminds me of how Muslim countries would impose a special tax on non-Muslims.  We don't allow that sort of stuff.

Nonsense. Your religious beliefs may be that 2+2=5, but you're not going to get anywhere demanding that be taught to your children in your public school. By this definition of religious freedom, you should be able to claim that your religion believes the home is a sacred place of worship. And therefore, all of your fellow worshipers' households are tax-free. Go ahead and give that one a try.

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Take the state's money, follow the state's rules.  Don't take the state's money and you should be much more free to operate, though there are limits.

Fine, but the state should follow some rules, as well. In the situation we were discussing, the state is playing favorites with those who have conformed to its new-found (and completely arbitrary) love of the homosexual, while casting aside those whose views are no longer considered fashionable. That's not so religious-freedomy, is it?
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #304 on: July 02, 2014, 06:53:41 PM »
How, exactly, does letting them get a piece of paper do what you say it would do?

You say your willing to let them love their lives as they see fit.
what if they see fit to be legally married?

What, exactly are the huge cultural ramifications that will destroy the fabric of our society if same sex marriages are legal?
I mean, other then, "because it's not like it was ."
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #305 on: July 02, 2014, 07:18:31 PM »
How, exactly, does letting them get a piece of paper do what you say it would do?

I'm sorry, but I'm really not sure what you think I "said it would do."

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You say your willing to let them love their lives as they see fit.
what if they see fit to be legally married?

Generally, when people try to claim a legal status for which they don't (and certainly shouldn't) qualify, we don't consider that "living their lives as they see fit." Obviously, having a wedding ceremony and living their lives as if they were married (unofficially) is something they are free to do.

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What, exactly are the huge cultural ramifications that will destroy the fabric of our society if same sex marriages are legal?
I mean, other then, "because it's not like it was ."

Of all the things I ever didn't claim...

Same-sex marriage is a symptom. Writing it into our laws is just another step on a road to mindless government down which we have trod quite far enough.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #306 on: July 02, 2014, 07:32:13 PM »
I'm sorry, but I'm really not sure what you think I "said it would do."

Generally, when people try to claim a legal status for which they don't (and certainly shouldn't) qualify, we don't consider that "living their lives as they see fit." Obviously, having a wedding ceremony and living their lives as if they were married (unofficially) is something they are free to do.

Of all the things I ever didn't claim...

Same-sex marriage is a symptom. Writing it into our laws is just another step on a road to mindless government down which we have trod quite far enough.

Why don't they qualify OTHER THEN THEIR GENDERS? And why shouldn't they?

And I agree with the last section, though not for reasons you would probably agree on. You see, I don't think anyone should be going to the government to get married. Straight people "can just go having a wedding ceremony and living their lives as if they were married (unofficially) is something they are free to do."

>:D
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charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #307 on: July 02, 2014, 08:32:39 PM »
For the folks who are standing on their religion grounds.

So, what if you had a sibling, son or daughter that was gay and wanted to get married to a person of the same sex. Would you support them or shun them?

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Marnoot

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #308 on: July 02, 2014, 08:46:44 PM »
Would you support them or shun them?

That's a bit of a false dichotomy. There are options in between condoning and supporting a loved one's wayward lifestyle and shunning them.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #309 on: July 02, 2014, 11:11:18 PM »
For the folks who are standing on their religion grounds.

So, what if you had a sibling, son or daughter that was gay and wanted to get married to a person of the same sex. Would you support them or shun them?

This isn't about religion. Plenty of people have strong convictions about sex, and everything else. People have disagreements with their families, pretty frequently, and have to make choices like this. What are you getting at?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #310 on: July 03, 2014, 12:54:48 AM »
Why don't they qualify OTHER THEN THEIR GENDERS? And why shouldn't they?

Other than their genders? I think I've been fairly straightforward in saying that the sex of the participants is precisely the reason why same-sex "marriages" are not. (Hence the term "same-sex" to distinguish them from marriages.) So, no, no reason other than gender. 


Quote
And I agree with the last section, though not for reasons you would probably agree on. You see, I don't think anyone should be going to the government to get married. Straight people "can just go having a wedding ceremony and living their lives as if they were married (unofficially) is something they are free to do."

>:D

Yawn. This opinion has become monotonously popular. It solves a problem that exists only in fevered imaginations. Just another left-wing, spread-the-misery approach.
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Firethorn

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #311 on: July 03, 2014, 03:39:14 AM »
"Prove how gun registration directly affects you. Bah, those are just slippery slope arguments, worrying about unintended consequences is for losers."

Gun registration affecting us is EASY. 

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Supporting gay marriage with a caveat of strong religious protections is like supporting illegal amnesty cause they totally promised to get tough on enforcement this time. I'd call it naive, but it's really just that you don't care about the consequences but can't admit that.

Not seeing it.

charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #312 on: July 03, 2014, 07:58:36 AM »
This isn't about religion. Plenty of people have strong convictions about sex, and everything else. People have disagreements with their families, pretty frequently, and have to make choices like this. What are you getting at?

Praying gay away and not allowing gay marriage is not about religion? If it wasn't about religious beliefs, civil unions between two consenting adults would be a the law of the land many many many years ago.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #313 on: July 03, 2014, 08:05:23 AM »
Praying gay away and not allowing gay marriage is not about religion? If it wasn't about religious beliefs, civil unions between two consenting adults would be a the law of the land many many many years ago.

I wasn't referring to the prayer, and I doubt you were, either. We were talking about same-sex marriage. Please explain how religion is the only thing keeping same-sex unions from being "the law of the land."
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fifth_column

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #314 on: July 03, 2014, 11:24:46 AM »
I'm sorry, but I'm really not sure what you think I "said it would do."


If anyone in this thread were trying to stop same-sex couples from doing anything, then they might feel obligated to explain such. As has been pointed out at least a dozen times over the past few years, it is the other side that wants to change the law, change an ancient concept, change our culture, etc. They are the ones who must explain why the government should care that two men are pretending to marry one another. The traditionalists, at this point, have shown themselves perfectly willing to let the two men live their own lives as the two men see fit. The traditionalists owe no one an explanation, as they are not the ones proposing bizarre changes.

I think what's happening is that the culture is changing and people are trying to change the laws to follow suit, rather than trying to change the law in order to force the culture to change.  Seems to me the anti gay marriage side is trying to force the culture to conform to the laws.
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Balog

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #315 on: July 03, 2014, 12:06:03 PM »
Gun registration affecting us is EASY. 

If it's so easy, please feel free to demonstrate real, non-theoretical or slippery slope damages that it causes.

Quote
Not seeing it.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #316 on: July 03, 2014, 12:07:21 PM »
I think what's happening is that the culture is changing and people are trying to change the laws to follow suit, rather than trying to change the law in order to force the culture to change.  Seems to me the anti gay marriage side is trying to force the culture to conform to the laws.

How does your theory account for all of the anti-gay marriage initiatives that have been passed by popular vote and then struck down by activist judges?
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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #317 on: July 03, 2014, 12:08:00 PM »
For the folks who are standing on their religion grounds.

So, what if you had a sibling, son or daughter that was gay and wanted to get married to a person of the same sex. Would you support them or shun them?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

KD5NRH

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #318 on: July 03, 2014, 12:23:30 PM »
So, what if you had a sibling, son or daughter that was gay and wanted to get married to a person of the same sex. Would you support them or shun them?

What if your gay son wanted to marry you?

charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #319 on: July 03, 2014, 12:52:17 PM »
I wasn't referring to the prayer, and I doubt you were, either. We were talking about same-sex marriage. Please explain how religion is the only thing keeping same-sex unions from being "the law of the land."

I'm not going to step into your trap this time.
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charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #320 on: July 03, 2014, 12:53:43 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

It is only a false dilemma because you don't want to answer it. People don't want to appear as a-hole parent or back peddle on their feelings towards gay people.

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charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #321 on: July 03, 2014, 12:54:39 PM »
What if your gay son wanted to marry you?

Isn't there already laws about close relatives wanting to marry?
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Balog

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #322 on: July 03, 2014, 12:56:32 PM »
It is only a false dilemma because you don't want to answer it. People don't want to appear as a-hole parent or back peddle on their feelings towards gay people.



 ;/

So if someone is making a bad decision, your only options are to support them or shun them? No middle ground? Interesting.

Isn't there already laws about close relatives wanting to marry?

Evil discriminatory laws fueled by hate that must be struck down for freedom.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Balog

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #323 on: July 03, 2014, 12:59:46 PM »
It is only a false dilemma because you don't want to answer it. People don't want to appear as a-hole parent or back peddle on their feelings towards gay people.



Oh, and to answer your question I'd treat it the same way as if one of my straight children wanted to live with a person of the opposite gender outside of marriage.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #324 on: July 03, 2014, 12:59:53 PM »
;/

So if someone is making a bad decision, your only options are to support them or shun them? No middle ground? Interesting.

I think you read too much into that. You could opine back with something in between those extremes. To support someone could be as simple as buying them lunch once or as complicated as providing them with all their basic needs and luxury items.

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