Post by: wmenorr67 on June 29, 2008, 09:23:11 PM
Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Retired Gen. Wesley Clark, a former Democratic presidential candidate now supporting Barack Obama, said Sunday John McCain's military service does not automatically qualify him to be commander in chief.
Underscoring during a national television appearance a position he has been expressing for several weeks, Clark said performing heroic military service is not a substitute for gaining command experience.
"In the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "It's a matter of gauging your opponents and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war.
"He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee and he has traveled all over the world, but he hasn't held executive responsibility," Clark said. "That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded - that wasn't a wartime squadron."
Moderator Bob Schieffer, who raised the issue by citing similar remarks Clark has made previously, noted that Obama hadn't had those experiences nor had he ridden in a fighter plane and been shot down. "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark replied.
In a March conference call with reporters while he was still backing Hillary Rodham Clinton, Clark said: "Everybody admires John McCain's service as a fighter pilot, his courage as a prisoner of war. There's no issue there. He's a great man and an honorable man. But having served as a fighter pilot - and I know my experience as a company commander in Vietnam - that doesn't prepare you to be commander in chief in terms of dealing with the national strategic issues that are involved. It may give you a feeling for what the troops are going through in the process, but it doesn't give you the experience first hand of the national strategic issues."
He reiterated that position last week in an article on The Huffington Post Web site.
"If Barack Obama's campaign wants to question John McCain's military service, that's their right," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said after Clark's appearance Sunday. "But let's please drop the pretense that Barack Obama stands for a new type of politics. The reality is he's proving to be a typical politician who is willing to say anything to get elected, including allowing his campaign surrogates to demean and attack John McCain's military service record."
Underscoring during a national television appearance a position he has been expressing for several weeks, Clark said performing heroic military service is not a substitute for gaining command experience.
"In the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "It's a matter of gauging your opponents and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war.
"He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee and he has traveled all over the world, but he hasn't held executive responsibility," Clark said. "That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded - that wasn't a wartime squadron."
Moderator Bob Schieffer, who raised the issue by citing similar remarks Clark has made previously, noted that Obama hadn't had those experiences nor had he ridden in a fighter plane and been shot down. "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark replied.
In a March conference call with reporters while he was still backing Hillary Rodham Clinton, Clark said: "Everybody admires John McCain's service as a fighter pilot, his courage as a prisoner of war. There's no issue there. He's a great man and an honorable man. But having served as a fighter pilot - and I know my experience as a company commander in Vietnam - that doesn't prepare you to be commander in chief in terms of dealing with the national strategic issues that are involved. It may give you a feeling for what the troops are going through in the process, but it doesn't give you the experience first hand of the national strategic issues."
He reiterated that position last week in an article on The Huffington Post Web site.
"If Barack Obama's campaign wants to question John McCain's military service, that's their right," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said after Clark's appearance Sunday. "But let's please drop the pretense that Barack Obama stands for a new type of politics. The reality is he's proving to be a typical politician who is willing to say anything to get elected, including allowing his campaign surrogates to demean and attack John McCain's military service record."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CLARK_MCCAIN?SITE=OKTUL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Like Obama has experience. Wow is about all I can say.
Post by: RevDisk on June 29, 2008, 10:18:58 PM
If Wesley Clark said the sky was blue, I'd double check just to be sure. Then look for where the knife was planted. He was a very self serving officer. Wouldn't think twice about selling out anyone or his own country if he thought it'd get him something.
Bastard very nearly caused WWIII due to his own ego and stupidity. One of the few things Clinton did right was forcing him to retire.
Post by: Finch on June 29, 2008, 10:52:29 PM
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 29, 2008, 11:02:16 PM
Post by: agricola on June 30, 2008, 12:12:59 AM
If Wesley Clark said the sky was blue, I'd double check just to be sure. Then look for where the knife was planted. He was a very self serving officer. Wouldn't think twice about selling out anyone or his own country if he thought it'd get him something.
Bastard very nearly caused WWIII due to his own ego and stupidity. One of the few things Clinton did right was forcing him to retire.
Indeed. General Sir Mike Jackson may have had many faults but refusing Clark's orders on that occasion was not one of them.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 30, 2008, 04:48:28 AM
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 30, 2008, 04:53:16 AM
Okay, Mr. "If people want assault weapons, they can join the Army..."
I joined the Army but have to give mine back when I am done. That isn't fair.
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 30, 2008, 04:56:09 AM
Post by: grampster on June 30, 2008, 04:56:56 AM
On that basis, McCain is actually more qualified as he is over twice the age qualification and Obama is till wet behind the ears. As for citizenship, he has participated in governmental duty for as long as Obama has been alive.
If one is to criticize qualifications, then use the correct parameters.
Post by: K Frame on June 30, 2008, 05:16:06 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on June 30, 2008, 05:42:51 AM
I would say that any Senator is less qualified in general than a governor or someone like that, but here we have two Senators, one with a great deal more political and military experience than the other. And one who seems to have trouble with the geography of the USA, who knows about the rest of the world.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 30, 2008, 05:52:07 AM
Post by: RevDisk on June 30, 2008, 08:43:24 AM
Indeed. General Sir Mike Jackson may have had many faults but refusing Clark's orders on that occasion was not one of them.
I noticed the you Brits didn't exactly punish him for disobeying orders from a Yank. Tsk, tsk
Post by: agricola on June 30, 2008, 08:58:51 AM
Indeed. General Sir Mike Jackson may have had many faults but refusing Clark's orders on that occasion was not one of them.
I noticed the you Brits didn't exactly punish him for disobeying orders from a Yank. Tsk, tsk
It would have been a nice time to be a fly in that room though... "You want me to do WHAT?"
Post by: stevelyn on June 30, 2008, 02:31:56 PM
Clark may be scum but, this is very true... "said Sunday John McCain's military service does not automatically qualify him to be commander in chief."
Neither does Clark's and I'm sure the bastard was going to tout HIS military credentials to weasel his way into the job.
Quote
One of the few things Clinton did right was forcing him to retire.
Yeah, but he also served as Clintoon's useful idiot during the Govt massacre at Waco. It was Clark's command that the equipment and personnel were drawn from that supported the waffen BATFECes and FBI.
Post by: longeyes on June 30, 2008, 02:38:45 PM
He needs to explain his "valor" in producing an independent Kosovo that is the drug gateway to Europe. Hackworth called his type a "perfumed prince."
Trying to gut McCain's martial credentials is not only a fool's errand it is ignoble.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 30, 2008, 02:48:16 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on June 30, 2008, 04:10:07 PM
Post by: longeyes on June 30, 2008, 04:48:21 PM
Post by: French G. on June 30, 2008, 05:49:21 PM
Post by: RevDisk on June 30, 2008, 05:51:12 PM
Clark serves a useful purpose: he reminds us that even soldiers officers can exhibit all the same weaknesses as civilians.
Fixed for you. Clark was not a soldier. He was an officer. Big difference.
Post by: Dannyboy on July 01, 2008, 03:23:53 AM
Quote
The Saddest Thing About Barack Obama's Available Military Expertise... ...is that though he has Wes Clark in his corner, the only person he knows with the experience of getting a bomb on target is Bill Ayers.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on July 01, 2008, 03:49:41 AM
When someone in the military voices a dissenting opinion, they pay dearly for it.
EDIT: To be clear, I think his support for Obama's presidency indicates that he doesn't hold the Constitution in high regard.
Post by: Dannyboy on July 01, 2008, 04:00:39 AM
Post by: SteveS on July 01, 2008, 04:47:58 AM
Quote
Moderator Bob Schieffer, who raised the issue by citing similar remarks Clark has made previously, noted that Obama hadn't had those experiences nor had he ridden in a fighter plane and been shot down. "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark replied.
I don't like Clark, but Schieffer made a really moronic statement and Clark's answer was good. Military service, in an of itself, doesn't warrant a vote from me. I sure as Hell wouldn't vote for Clark and he has plenty of experience.
Post by: Ben on July 01, 2008, 04:50:23 AM
Quote
I don't know what Wesley Clark's positions are on the U.S. Constitution
Well, he's anti-gun and pro wealth redistribution. I've always found people with those characteristics to be somewhat lacking in the understanding of constitutional freedoms.
Post by: JonnyB on July 01, 2008, 04:57:50 AM
jb
Post by: seeker_two on July 01, 2008, 05:44:04 AM
Quote
Moderator Bob Schieffer, who raised the issue by citing similar remarks Clark has made previously, noted that Obama hadn't had those experiences nor had he ridden in a fighter plane and been shot down. "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark replied.
I don't like Clark, but Schieffer made a really moronic statement and Clark's answer was good. Military service, in an of itself, doesn't warrant a vote from me. I sure as Hell wouldn't vote for Clark and he has plenty of experience.
Clark's statements just go to prove that even a blind pig finds a truffle every once in awhile....
Post by: coppertales on July 01, 2008, 06:13:10 AM
chris3
Post by: longeyes on July 01, 2008, 06:43:49 AM
A lot of very bad societies have militaries. I'm sure Clark could find a home in one of those.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on July 01, 2008, 06:00:32 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 01, 2008, 08:29:20 PM
Quote
John McCain's military service does not automatically qualify him to be commander in chief.
Why do people keep saying things like this? Who are they arguing with? Has someone said that military experience is some kind of stand-alone, that's-all-you-need qualification?
Post by: grampster on July 02, 2008, 04:06:25 AM
Quote
John McCain's military service does not automatically qualify him to be commander in chief.
Why do people keep saying things like this? Who are they arguing with? Has someone said that military experience is some kind of stand-alone, that's-all-you-need qualification?
Haven't you noticed? Today's politics is not about governance, common good, national interest, securing personal liberty inter alia. It's a juvenile, grade school exercise by petulant immature adults engaged in he said, she said and (whiney voice) Georgie did it to me, so I gotta do it to Georgie. (More whiney voice) he hit me first, I didn't do 'nuffin....
Post by: SteveS on July 02, 2008, 06:53:34 AM
Quote
John McCain's military service does not automatically qualify him to be commander in chief.
Why do people keep saying things like this? Who are they arguing with? Has someone said that military experience is some kind of stand-alone, that's-all-you-need qualification?
No, but candidates have certainly used it to show it as being very important. Kerry, for example. McCain had a couple ads, but I don't think he has brought it up all that much, though who knows what he'll trot out in the ads to come.
Post by: wmenorr67 on July 02, 2008, 06:57:14 AM
Post by: longeyes on July 02, 2008, 08:54:41 AM
Post by: grampster on July 02, 2008, 10:42:35 AM
Wait a minute...there would only be 50 people able to vote in the next national election
Post by: MechAg94 on July 02, 2008, 11:05:16 AM
Post by: longeyes on July 02, 2008, 04:46:17 PM
Quote
I wonder what the political platter would look like if only people who owned property and had a job in the private sector with no government contracts, or was retired from a private sector job.
Wait a minute...there would only be 50 people able to vote in the next national election
Wait a minute...there would only be 50 people able to vote in the next national election
All I know is I don't want 20-something college "kids" living off mom and dad determining how much tax I pay when I sell the house I've owned over 20 years.
Post by: grampster on July 02, 2008, 05:24:38 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 02, 2008, 05:48:53 PM
I heard some clips from Clark on a radio show today. Apparently he was challenged on the fact that he said the exact opposite thing when he talked about John Kerry's service 4 years ago.
Yes he did.
Quote
John Kerry's combination of physical courage and moral values is my definition of what we need as Americans in our commander in chief.
John Kerry will lead America with strength and wisdom. He has the will to fight. He has the moral courage born in battle to pursue and secure a strong peace. Under John Kerry, I have no doubt -- and neither should any American -- that we are going to attack and destroy the terrorist threat to America.
My fellow Americans, Democrats are leaders, and Democrats are fighters. And John Kerry is a leader, a fighter, and he will be a great commander in chief.
John Kerry will lead America with strength and wisdom. He has the will to fight. He has the moral courage born in battle to pursue and secure a strong peace. Under John Kerry, I have no doubt -- and neither should any American -- that we are going to attack and destroy the terrorist threat to America.
My fellow Americans, Democrats are leaders, and Democrats are fighters. And John Kerry is a leader, a fighter, and he will be a great commander in chief.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/29/dems.clark.transcript/index.html
Post by: Archie on July 03, 2008, 04:51:17 AM
John McCain was not a leader in the U. S. Navy long enough or in proper conditions to have derived 'real leadership experience'.
On the other hand, Barack Obama communicates well and people respond well to him.
Therefore, Barack Obama's qualifications as a confidence man and snake-oil peddler are more important in the Presidency than John McCain's qualifications as a man of determination and principle.
If that's what General Clarke wants...
Post by: Ezekiel on July 03, 2008, 05:34:04 AM
John McCain was not a leader in the U. S. Navy long enough or in proper conditions to have derived 'real leadership experience'.
I tend to concur.
General Clarke said nothing about Obama, directly, but any argument involving personal scrutiny is -- by definition -- reflexive.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on July 03, 2008, 08:57:59 AM
I'm no McCain supporter, but I won't claim that he doesn't have any wartime leadership experience. You'd have to be a fool or a liar to do that.
Post by: Manedwolf on July 03, 2008, 09:10:08 AM
Bad luck with airplanes, though!
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on July 03, 2008, 04:43:26 PM
Post by: seeker_two on July 06, 2008, 04:00:44 AM
Bad luck with airplanes, though!
Agreed.....if McCain is elected, we'll need a Secret Service detachment with the sole responsibility of keeping him away from Air Force One's cockpit....
EDIT: My concerns have been addressed....... http://www.theonion.com/content/video/mccain_vows_to_replace_secret
Post by: xavier fremboe on July 06, 2008, 04:22:58 AM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on July 06, 2008, 11:11:16 AM