Author Topic: Time To Fight Back  (Read 2612 times)

trusense

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Time To Fight Back
« on: July 05, 2008, 06:16:44 AM »
How difficult can it be to fight the oil cartels in the Middle East? Business experts in coat and tie safely bunked in air-conditioned offices had remarkable observations, from the weak dollar to the supply and demand theory. But none have ever suggested concrete avenues of solutions to the constant spikes in oil prices.

ITS TIME TO FIGHT BACK. Oil importing countries that are food producing and food exporting must band together and impose a food export moratorium or embargo, whatever it is, against the oil rich mullahs, sheiks and kings in the middle east. From soya to corn to coffee, and sugar. Poultry products, beef, dairy products to bananas in the Philippines has to cease. And lets see who buckles down first. I say Expensive food for expensive oil. No oil- no food. Lets see if they can shove those black oil down their greedy throats. 1st world aid to impoverish NIGERIA even has to stop. The NIGERIAN govt has got to do the most part in providing security to their oil production. ITS TIME that these rich mullahs and even the isolationist regime of medvedev to Chavez get the real sense of fairplay. Include Russia, yield in their agriculture sector continue to be insufficient for their own. They too cannot have our food.

Enough of those analysis and observations by the white collared greeds and punks at wall street who are clear speculators and under the payroll of shell, chevron, exxon, you name it. ITS TIME TO PLAY HARDBALL AGAINST OPEC. Lets see who wins the battle. If theres OPEC then we can have O.F.E.C. (Organization of Food Exporting Countries).

Rant finished.

fIRE on.

Werewolf

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2008, 06:34:01 AM »
Quote
Oil importing countries that are food producing and food exporting must band together and impose a food export moratorium or embargo, whatever it is, against the oil rich mullahs, sheiks and kings in the middle east.

But... But... Using FOOD! as a weapon? Why  shocked that would be - well - wrong.

It'd probably work. Good luck getting all the pie in the sky pansies running the show in the west to do it though.

On the other hand while they're starvin' we'd be freezin or fryin and doing it without the ability to go anywhere.

Wonder who'd blink first?
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pappy

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2008, 06:36:36 AM »
I think a better place to start would be to cut off all the money we send to those regions. How many BILLIONS of dollars in aid do we send every year to countries that hate our guts!

trusense

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2008, 06:56:09 AM »
Food exporting countries have great resources.  People just got to learn how to use these resources without fuel, and you can.  Go figure.  Apparently, there is a concerted effort by oil producing nations to undermine development in the rest of the world.  I say this is equivalent to terrorism.  While America is fighting by large the terrorism with guns MIDDLE EAST is fighting back with undermining America's economy and those who  support it.  And why not use food as a weapon those guys in M.E. are using oil as a leverage.  They have vast oilfields but almost zero agricultural land.  They cant have geothermal energy, no volcanoes there, they cant have hydro, no advance water dam systems there, they cant have nuclear energy, the free and democratic world will not allow it.  So they use what they have and its oil.  And that is what they only have.  Those guys don't know how to farm, but we do.  So you still think we'll die first?   

Bigjake

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2008, 07:32:30 AM »
It might work, if we actually got a significant amount of oil from them.  Middle Eastern oil doesn't even make our "top 5" in suppliers, last I checked. 

I'm all for laying the smack on countries we don't like, and yanking all foreign aid, but you have to choose you battles, and then understand why you're fighting them.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2008, 07:42:44 AM »
You do understand that the Middle East oil cartels don't set the price of oil, right? 

You do understand that we get the bulk of our oil from ourselves and friendly North American allies.  Right? 

You do understand that most of the leadership in those Middle Eastern cartel nations would let their own populations starve before they give up any revenue, right? 

You understand that the runup in oil prices has far more to do with our own domestic financial situation and our unwillingness to replace dwindling domestic sources with new domestic sources. 

Surely you've actually bothered to learn a thing or two about the way the oil markets function before deciding to meddle in them.

You do understand how utterly stupid that OFEC idea is, right?  I assume you're just venting, blowing off steam, and that you don't really mean what you say.

Manedwolf

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2008, 07:44:16 AM »
I still just want to see the bubble pop and the home-office amateur traders be forced to take delivery.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2008, 07:58:47 AM »
I read an interesting article the other day that postulated that bubbles burst when the fed funds rate hits 5%.  It makes sense when you think about it, and the historical evidence of dot com and housing seems support it.

Much as I'd like to see the amateurs get hosed, I don't think it's going to happen any time soon.  Too much money sloshing around in the system looking for a home.

El Tejon

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2008, 10:14:05 AM »
Hmmm, I am old enough to remember this same "I-don't-need-to-read-economics-textbooks" argument being made in the late '70s.  How did that turn out 30 years ago? rolleyes
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86thecat

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2008, 01:20:30 PM »
Wanna' Fight Back?

How about-
Demand our our Gov't:
Allow drilling and oil shale recovery- NOW
Start building new technology Nuclear Generating Facilities- NOW
Create incentives/low interest loans for solar home heating and domestic hot water system installations.
Create incentives/low interest loans for wind, hydro and other non petroleum  methods of electrical generating systems.
Create incentives/low interest loans for adding insulating mat'ls or otherwise making buildings more energy efficient.
Provide tax incentives for purchase of fuel efficient vehicles.
Spearhead non petroleum energy research.

Then our citizens need to take advantage of these measures to cut our oil use by 50% +.

Funneling the billions that go to the mideast for oil back into our own economy and reducing demand (therefore prices) of oil.



Werewolf

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2008, 01:53:41 PM »
Just in case you were responding to me...

You do understand that the Middle East oil cartels don't set the price of oil, right?
Of course - the market sets the price of oil. Simple economics really. No matter how much the socialists and commies deny it it really all boils down to supply and demand. Then again if one controls enough of the market one can essentially control the price. Ever hear of DeBeers? Think diamonds. So - no - the mideast oil exporters don't control the price per se' but they do affect it.

Quote
You do understand that we get the bulk of our oil from ourselves and friendly North American allies.  Right?
Yep

Quote
You do understand that most of the leadership in those Middle Eastern cartel nations would let their own populations starve before they give up any revenue, right?
And your point would be?

Quote
You understand that the runup in oil prices has far more to do with our own domestic financial situation and our unwillingness to replace dwindling domestic sources with new domestic sources.
Yes indeedy... That is a part of it to be sure.

Quote
Surely you've actually bothered to learn a thing or two about the way the oil markets function before deciding to meddle in them.
Had to. A major part of a business I worked for back in the early 2000's was acquiring fuel oil for fuel and aluminum as a raw material. I traded both fuel oil and aluminum futures for my employer as insurance against market price changes and always for delivery. So yeah - I'd say I know how the commodities markets function.

Quote
You do understand how utterly stupid that OFEC idea is, right?  I assume you're just venting, blowing off steam, and that you don't really mean what you say.
Actually the price of oil never really entered into my thinking at all. You see I lived in Turkey the better part of 3 years, spent about a year off and on in Lebanon and Egypt. With the exception of W. and S. Africa there's not a more hateful, screwed up and rotten part of the world. If the mid-east just dried up and blew away with all it's people I wouldn't shed a single freaking tear.

Rational - probably not.

Emotional definitely.

Do I care? No.

And I'm not bashing Islam either. Note I said mid-east. I'm convinced those folks would be total barbarians even without Islam to egg 'em on.
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xavier fremboe

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2008, 02:34:21 PM »
I think he was responding to the OP.
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Bigjake

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2008, 04:45:23 PM »
Werewolf, I think you just expertly fisked the wrong post.  It was good, but you got the wrong man...

RevDisk

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2008, 10:06:32 PM »
ITS TIME TO FIGHT BACK. Oil importing countries that are food producing and food exporting must band together and impose a food export moratorium or embargo, whatever it is, against the oil rich mullahs, sheiks and kings in the middle east. From soya to corn to coffee, and sugar. Poultry products, beef, dairy products to bananas in the Philippines has to cease. And lets see who buckles down first. I say Expensive food for expensive oil. No oil- no food. Lets see if they can shove those black oil down their greedy throats. 1st world aid to impoverish NIGERIA even has to stop. The NIGERIAN govt has got to do the most part in providing security to their oil production. ITS TIME that these rich mullahs and even the isolationist regime of medvedev to Chavez get the real sense of fairplay. Include Russia, yield in their agriculture sector continue to be insufficient for their own. They too cannot have our food.

Yea!   Let's starve those major oil producing nations.  Like US, UK, Norway, Russia, Mexico, Canada, etc.  Oh, wait.  D'oh.

Gods, man.  Oil is produced all over the world.  The Middle East does produce a large amount of oil.  But not the overwhelming majority.  Middle East DOES have a large voting bloc of OPEC.  They're swing voters, essentially.  It's not merely the amount of oil they produce.   It's their willingness to increase or decrease production that is their power.  Other oil producing nations do not have nearly as much leverage in altering oil production levels for price fixing.

If the US tried to embargo all Middle Eastern nations, the rest of the world would laugh at us and scramble to sell them whatever the Middle East wanted.  Do you realize how much oil money is banked back into the US?  You really think Australia wouldn't bank in on our stupidity?  Do you think US farmers wouldn't scream bloody murder?  Or that agriculture experts wouldn't move to other countries?

As for your other preconceptions.  The only real theocracy run by Mullahs in the Middle East region is Iran.  Which you may wish to recall is not an Arab country.  The core of the Middle East are primarily oligarchies.  A few rich families who own the majority.  They will eat regardless of food prices.   

"even the isolationist regime of medvedev to Chavez get the real sense of fairplay."  I'm having difficulty parsing that statement, but I gather you don't like Chavez.  Don't like him myself.  Charismatic leaders are dangerous sorts.  But uhm, he was elected into office.  Pretty fairly, as South American elections go.  The US may or may not have been involved in efforts to overthrow or assassinate Chavez.  In either event, it was not successful.  So he was elected reasonably fairly, survived assassinations, and attempts at coups failed.  What exactly do you propose to do?  Alter free commerce of our nation to sanction a state that has made no militaristic threat towards our country because they elected someone rude and uncouth?

Perhaps you'd be better off campaigning for tax cuts for new energy production facilities, nuclear being a very good choice?  Maybe lessening EPA regulations on oil refineries or car emission controls that decrease gas mileage?  Maybe invest YOUR own personal dollars in companies that are doing good research in synthetic gasoline instead of demanding other people's careers are ruined (farmers) and tax dollars squandered (sanctions) for worthless futile gestures?
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Time To Fight Back
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2008, 06:26:19 AM »
Quote
You do understand that we get the bulk of our oil from ourselves and friendly North American allies.  Right? 
Yeah, but it's just so much easier to blame the middle east.