Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on August 14, 2010, 10:21:51 AM
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Wow. What's the analog to Bush Derangement Syndrome that explains this?
http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/Jamie-Stiehm/2010/08/09/Let-the-Worst-States-Secede-Goodbye-South-Carolina-Arizona-and-Texas
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Fine by me....and we'll take our oil wells, refineries, and commercial ports with us....
Hope you Yankees like cold winters.... =D
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Soo... they want us to leave? Quick, lets skedadle before they realize they're kicking the productive ones out of this money pit! I'm sure they wont mind if other "problem children" like Montana and Alaska scoot too. =D
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Well if you guys are leaving the party, it's just not a party anymore. I'm going too! ;)
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The coasts think that middle America could split off and leave them better to run the Liberal utopia....Now that I live in Texas, I welcome the idea :angel:
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The more I think about it, the more I feel that this would be the absolute best-case scenario for our country. It would be a like a political pressure release valve. I think that TX should begin building momentum toward secession as soon as possible.
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Well, some said I was crazy when I began talking up the S-word a long time ago...
But, hey, when the exit finally begins--and it will--it won't stop with SC, AZ, and TX. Right now, for the wanker left, this is satire. It won't sound so funny a year from now.
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Ok, here's the deal. We'll give NoVa to Maryland and execute 12 possibly guilty people in the electric chair if it makes us bad enough to leave too. =D
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The marraige is long over.
Just haven't done the paperwork yet.
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What a snarky, hateful article.
Geeesh. I mean, just because some states actually recognize that this country has problems and they're being ignored by the putzes in D.C. :mad:
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The south said it would rise again....
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imageshack.us%2Fimg831%2F9817%2F800pxconfederaterebelfl.png&hash=833b3b4c42c9edab454c2a8a48d5cc5ded8064af) (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/800pxconfederaterebelfl.png/)
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Screw you guys, I'm going home!
We'll keep our beautiful beaches and our nice cities (our large cities still aren't hotbeds of murder and crime like many of the "good" liberal cities) and tell the leftists to GTFO.
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Empty talk. Nobody's gonna secede.
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Secession ain't gonna happen. But maybe, just maybe we can start a movement to fixing the long term damage created by the 17th amendment. Returning to the days of senators being an employee of the state they represent will go a long ways in fixing intractable problems.
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Empty talk. Nobody's gonna be allowed by the Federalist Socialist People's Empire to secede.
FIFY....
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Well, some said I was crazy when I began talking up the S-word a long time ago...
But, hey, when the exit finally begins--and it will--it won't stop with SC, AZ, and TX. Right now, for the wanker left, this is satire. It won't sound so funny a year from now.
You're still crazy. =D
But you might have a point.
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I've wanted this country to split for a long time, but there's no simple way to do it.
As for the writer, if she has a problem with Lindsay Graham, how does she feel about conservatives?
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Secession can take many forms. It can be formal or informal, bloody or bloodless. It can be customary rather than legal. It may amount to an increasing volume of underground economy and a sporadic substrate of anarchy. Whatever's coming it won't be Obama's utopia.
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The best hope for this country is a return to state's rights, i.e. limited secession. That article, and the responses in this thread, give me hope that we're moving in that direction. We just need a governor with the guts to do it.
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Secession ain't gonna happen. But maybe, just maybe we can start a movement to fixing the long term damage created by the 17th amendment. Returning to the days of senators being an employee of the state they represent will go a long ways in fixing intractable problems.
+100000000 !!! ;)
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It would be interesting if all the Gulf Coast states separated and put their own export fees on oil flowing North. Do you think the East and West coasts would actually consider off shore drilling then?
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Well, Texas and Arizona were already on my list of places to apply for LEO jobs once I get back from Afghaniland. This bumps them up a notch :laugh:
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The USSR will never break up either :P
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I'd live in any of those states if they left the union, and were headed by real conservatives, instead of intolerant blowhards.
Texas and other southern states have a LOT they can teach California, NY, etc. This also doesn't mean that those states don't have a lot they could teach us, either.
Personally, I think one of the things that made this country great is it's political diversity. The Californias keeps the Texases from going way too far to the right, and the Texases keeps Californias from turning into the soviet union.
The fact that we need to convince everyone that something is a good idea keeps this country a better place.
At least it has until the last 10 years, when nobody wants to listen to anyone anymore.
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I don't think the level of discourse in this country was ever all that high, but there isn't much of it these days in a lot of places.
However, I think most of that is just the hard core activists defending their guy or their issue no matter what and the 24/7 media playing along.
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Soo... they want us to leave? Quick, lets skedadle before they realize they're kicking the productive ones out of this money pit! I'm sure they wont mind if other "problem children" like Montana and Alaska scoot too. =D
I'm in! When do we let the other foot drop?
Hope you Yankees like cold winters....
Like the founder of the Alaska Independence Party used to say. "Let the bastards freeze in the dark."
I miss having old Joe stirring the pot. =(
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At least it has until the last 10 years, when nobody wants to listen to anyone anymore.
Why listen? I've heard all of their arguments, and they don't make sense. When I present basic facts and principles to them, they do not listen.
So, yeah, we're beyond anything that can be solved by discussion. That leaves other options besides secession or civil war, I guess, but we're still beyond discussion.
Folk have been using the phrase "culture war" for a long time now, and it has been prophetic. The "left" can no longer be regarded as misguided Americans or loyal opposition. They can only be politically defeated and their mindless propaganda shouted down. Hence the boisterousness of the recent town hall events.
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They need us, we don't need them.
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<snip> and the Texases keeps Californias from turning into the soviet union....
Nope. Disagree. As a matter of opinion, just the opposite is true. Collectivists (I like that better than "Liberals") stay in Kali, individualists head to free States like Texas. Kali gets more Fornia'd as the productive leave. FedGov steps in, taking tax dollars from the producers to prop up failing state public service employee unions, among other local government functions. Lather, rinse, repeat a few more times, as Federalism as a concept gets to be a quaint, fondly remembered notion. The prductive get screwed, the unproductive get subsidized, and more and more of the folks in flyover country scratch their heads and begin to imagine a better way.
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Nope. Disagree. As a matter of opinion, just the opposite is true. Collectivists (I like that better than "Liberals") stay in Kali, individualists head to free States like Texas. Kali gets more Fornia'd as the productive leave. FedGov steps in, taking tax dollars from the producers to prop up failing state public service employee unions, among other local government functions. Lather, rinse, repeat a few more times, as Federalism as a concept gets to be a quaint, fondly remembered notion. The prductive get screwed, the unproductive get subsidized, and more and more of the folks in flyover country scratch their heads and begin to imagine a better way.
Yup, yup, and ... yup. I totally agree with this.
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Secession ain't gonna happen. But maybe, just maybe we can start a movement to fixing the long term damage created by the 17th amendment. Returning to the days of senators being an employee of the state they represent will go a long ways in fixing intractable problems.
Agreed. A return to federalism, to shared powers between the states and Feds, would go a long way to solving our current problems.
Fixing the 17th would work. So would, I think, enabling some sort of state veto authority over Federal legislation. Constitutional limits on the extent of taxation (and borrowing, which is merely deferred taxation) permissible by the Feds would also help.
We can solve our problems without resorting to secession, revolution, and so forth. We should solve our problems without resorting to those measures.
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The problem is you need a congress to pass such changes and a president to sign. If it requires a constitutional amendment you need three-fourths of the states, which I doubt would happen. The leech states wouldn't go for it.
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So would, I think, enabling some sort of state veto authority over Federal legislation.
:O I never thought of you as the Calhoun type. Or what do you mean exactly?
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Agreed. A return to federalism, to shared powers between the states and Feds, would go a long way to solving our current problems.
Fixing the 17th would work. So would, I think, enabling some sort of state veto authority over Federal legislation. Constitutional limits on the extent of taxation (and borrowing, which is merely deferred taxation) permissible by the Feds would also help.
We can solve our problems without resorting to secession, revolution, and so forth. We should solve our problems without resorting to those measures.
I don't have any particular grievance with you but since you've opened up the door =D
We are too far down the slippery slope of collectivism, liberal indoctrination, and federal overreach to reverse the slide. Liberty as we used to know it will never be restored, encouraged, or voted for in the halls of Congress.
Secession is not something that I enjoy talking about, but a somewhat organized and polite separation is far preferable to a messy guerilla war which will certainly erupt as the more onerous provisions of the Health Care Bill are enacted--for instance, forcing citizens to buy health care against their will.
At this point the question you have to ask yourself about secession is not "why" but "why not?" We are rapidly approaching the time when any benefits to staying in the Union as it now exists will cease to outweigh the potential prosperity of some other sort of federation. I don't pretend to be an expert on what sort of cultural, economic, and governmental trauma would both result from and cause such a move. But I can tell you right now, more and more people in independently minded states are doing the math--and coming up short in the Fed.gov column.
I'm not delusional. South Carolina, for instance, will never secede. We are too dependent on Federal welfare assistance and road money, plus the lower half of the state is fairly liberal. States like Utah, Wyoming, and Montana I can see seceding because of their low population density and relative level of energy independence would embolden them in the face of any sort of confusion in the halls of state or federal government.
The bottom line, of course, is that secession or no, the Federal crazy train is about to come off the rails. The crash will be spectacular. Who survives, who runs the various governments, and whether or not we are able to withstand the assaults on liberty on the national, state, and local level--these questions are being decided now. Sun Tzu spoke wisely when he said that the battle is decided before the armies ever meet in the field (paraphrase).
Buy food. Buy guns. Talk to your neighbors. You may not be able to motivate your local boys to get in the woods once a month but maybe you can get a loose "neighborhood watch" program started with an emphasis on preparedness and communication.
And for the love of God, buy ammunition. Ammunition will never again be as cheap as it is now. Always have enough ammunition to start or finish a small war. God help you if you have to do both.
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Reading some of these comments about secession remind me of the comments made here after the 2008 election. Perhaps I missed something, but the JBTs rounding up citizens for the FEMA re-education camps and wholesale confiscation of firearms hasn't seemed to make it up to Seattle yet.
And so now, we have some predicting civil war related to healthcare insurance, the impending demise of centralized government and people thinking states that collect far more from the Federal Government then they contribute in revenue can be viable economic vehicles if they go it alone.
The decaf is in the carafe right next to the regular and it tastes just as good. Try it.
Let's all check back in a year and see how that whole secession/civil war/crash of civilization thing is working out.
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Actually, MillCreek, I fear Glenn Beck is closer to the truth than you are. To loosely quote him, who would have predicted all the changes that have already occurred in the past two years?
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I don't have any particular grievance with you but since you've opened up the door =D
We are too far down the slippery slope of collectivism, liberal indoctrination, and federal overreach to reverse the slide. Liberty as we used to know it will never be restored, encouraged, or voted for in the halls of Congress.
Well, IMHO, the other option is keep going, and end up like Great Britain The Island formerly home to Great Britain.
Pardon me, but **** that. I'd sooner take whatever is behind door 2, than end up like them.
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Reading some of these comments about secession remind me of the comments made here after the 2008 election. Perhaps I missed something, but the JBTs rounding up citizens for the FEMA re-education camps and wholesale confiscation of firearms hasn't seemed to make it up to Seattle yet.
I know you're using hyperbole, but--why would we wait that long?
And so now, we have some predicting civil war related to healthcare insurance, the impending demise of centralized government and people thinking states that collect far more from the Federal Government then they contribute in revenue can be viable economic vehicles if they go it alone.
All politics in this country is now dress rehearsal for civil war and has been since about, oh, 2002. We have two fundamentally different views of the individual, government, western civilization, and the history of all the above. We are no longer looking at a question of "if" but a question of "when." Not today. Not tomorrow. Not this year. But soon--too soon.
What will be the tipping point? Health care? Cap and trade? Mortgage forgiveness that may be coming down the pike? The key is not drawing a line in the sand. The trick is to let some bungling bureaucrat with a militarized enforcement squad and an itchy trigger finger step over it. Don't worry, we won't be baiting. They'll know exactly what they'll be doing.
But I wouldn't expect anything soon. DoJ and the White House saw how many guns disappeared off shelves in 2008 and 2009 and they know we didn't buy them for recreational purposes. And that fact, at the end of the day, is what may make what is coming an Armed Polite Secession. And that would be a good thing.
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Secession isn't the only option, but the issue is and will be autonomy, whatever the political form it may take. Problem is, there is no way the Powers That Be are going to permit that--because for various reasons they can't afford to--unless they are pushed to the point where they have no choice. Without political autonomy the future is submersion and, finally, extinction of the individual freedoms at the heart of our Republic. Our cry must be, "Let my people go!" And some will add, "or else."
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I don't think the level of discourse in this country was ever all that high, but there isn't much of it these days in a lot of places.
The best thing we could do to raise the level of discourse in this country is to let the Liberals secede.
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Okay seems the level of discourse in this thread has passed into advocating open rebellion. As such, I'm closing it.
I've been hearing that same noise my entire adult life.