Is it just me, or has the demographics of TFL and THR changed?

[Mannlicher]

Used to be that most folks posting were, if not conservative, at least posting intelligent questions and responses.  Lately, it seems like half of the posters and responders are decidedly left of center.  This is not to suggest that their political/social bent is necessarily in and of itself, a bad thing, but I am fairly positive this is the result of a sea change in demographics with new members.
I almost wonder if this is happenstance, or the result of a concerted and conscious effort to wreck havoc with the sites?

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

School's out for the summer.
Happens every time.

[charby]

I really don't visit THR very much anymore since APS has been live.

I really haven't noticed much of a change here at APS. Left, center and right thinkers all own firearms, so I figure that there will be a mixed thought pattern on here. Just because your a left thinker it doesn't automatically make you anti-firearm and vice versa.

C

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

APS is a small, relatively unknown forum.  So far, we've been immune from the School's Out effect.

[AJ Dual]

I think it's a couple of things. In order of magnitude:

1. THR has now been in existence long enough that it generates a significant number of Google hits when people perform a number of search terms.

2. Oleg's photo's have gotten wide play. His intended effect to convey RKBA clearly, concisely, and very "in your face" stirs up people. Those photos have also gotten spread about and gotten lots of play in many non-gun forums. That leads people back to THR.

3. THR people and other gun-boards have gone "trolling" at places like Democratic Underground, the more successful ones posing, or legitamately, as "pro-gun liberals", and if they hot-link right into the DU thread du-jour, the web-admins at those sites can see this, and the places these reverse-trolls come from is known. (Same for when an RKBA poll get's "freeped" too&)

Some of the people are legitimate pro-gun liberals.

Some of them are high-school and college kids stumbling upon THR as they perform research on position papers for or against gun control.

Some of them are just trolls.

I do agree with those conservative and libertarian posters who think that the self-deterministic nature of RKBA, and all it implies is somewhat inconsistent with collectivist/leftist thought, but I'm not going to be rude about it. And I definitely agree that everyone being right of center on a board is boring. As long as it's not disruptive, or devolves into meaningless flame-fests having a breadth of political opinion is interesting.

I also think THR's strict moderation, lack of any advertising etc. does make the site a bit more civil in tone, and there are a rare few anti-gun people who really want to dialouge and feel the most welcome at places like THR, where other more "rambunctious" boards probably make them feel like a feminist walking into a strip-club...

[Marnoot]

There has been an increase in more leftists posts, but I've also seen an increase in tinfoil-hat, neocon, gun-forum commando and other annoying right-wing type postings as well. I've just been spending more time in the more "technical" forums there, rather than L&P and General discussion as it's almost always just the same crap over and over in those two, more so than the others. Hopefully as the adolescents get back into school in a couple months it will calm down.

[Tallpine]

Horrors that any gun-owner would disagree with the (Republican) party platform

So the word is getting out to more people, and that is a bad thing...?  Or is it better to just preach to the choir?

Maybe there should be a political (in)correct-ness test before one is allowed to join the forums and post ?

[Leatherneck]

Tallpine makes good points.

One thing I personally never cared for was a forum like ours that became a clique. New blood is good.

But I do wish the newcomers would take the time to get the sense of TFL/THR. Taking the high road approach to discussions, especially emotional ones, takes some measure of self-discipline.

The rules and standards that Rich and Oleg established are good ones.

TC

[Monkeyleg]

When Rich shut down TFL and Oleg opened up THR, I found myself spending probably an hour or two on THR every day.

Now I can browse through it in minutes.

Perhaps it's because the same questions are being asked that were asked three years ago or more.

Whatever it is, both TFL and THR have become rather boring.

Or maybe I, as a poster on both forums, have become more boring. I'm sure my wife would agree that I've become a more boring person all around.

[Standing Wolf]

Some of the people are legitimate pro-gun liberals.

Not to mention feathered alligators.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I'm with Dick on that. Used to be I'd spend at least a couple of hours every night reading through THR. Pretty much hit every category except the classifieds.

Yes, it's seasonal. Every year when school lets out every group/room/list I'm on takes a noticeable hit.  Happens again when school starts back up in the fall, to a lesser extent. Give it a couple more weeks and it'll calm down and go away.

In the last few months I haven't had quite enough valium, duct tape, or tinfoil to read it cover to cover like I used to. I don't know if it's the gunkid effect, the Rambos with 21 posts or the moonbats that are doing it to me, but I've found myself once again sticking to Rifles and Handguns/Autos.

I'll get over it and calm down. Now if I can just find that bottle of nerve pills to stop the tremors....


Regards,
Rabbit.

[Bogie]

Lots of folks are buying the "vote for anyone but Bush" or "anyone but a republican" bit. Dems can't field a decent candidate, so this is their strategy. Works GREAT for the conspiracy-minded...
 
I think that THR has WAY too many people who have never smelled burning gunpowder. It's like the posts have changed from "9mm vs. .45" to "My mommy won't let me buy a paintball gun - should I shoot her with my airsoft?"

[Preacherman]

Folks, please see my post - http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2505747&postcount=4 - in this thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=205354 .  That says it like it is, methinks.

[HForrest]

APS is a small, relatively unknown forum.  So far, we've been immune from the School's Out effect.

zomg11 i hate stupid conservativee ppl and stuff like for isntance jon kerry would have ben a better pres than geroge bush i hate him so much because of iraw and stuff itsjust soo stuipd.

[SpookyPistolero]

I wholeheartedly second Preacherman's sentiments. I'm beginning to be irked by the threads I see from established members saying 'well, things have changed for the worse, so it's time for me to bail indefinitely'. This is the same reason we see all these threads asking whether it's high time to get the FAL out of the closet to take down the government.  This is the same reason we are having the political issues we're having right now. Things get crappy, folks call it day, and retreat into themselves instead of working towards a solution.

If we love THR, then we have to be the change and we have to keep on representing what it was made to be. We can't just build a new house everytime too many morons find out about it. Post responsibly, gently guide new members, help control thread tone and report the tards to mods. Don't bail, just be the change.

I'm posting in a rush as I'm late for work, so sorry if this was a garbled mess...

[Iain]

There's been a lot of public angst lately.

I guess you notice what concerns you, and whilst some may be concerned about 'lefties', I've noticed that the odd nasty little racist is popping up. Not really said anything because it seems that the appearance of nasty little racists is a hot button for several other members too.

 I also think there is a big difference between nasty little racists and the odd lefty who isn't trolling. I'm sure if I spent time on DU I'd end up with the same conclusions but sometimes I read some posters and think that what they really want is an echo chamber.

[Mannlicher]

Tallpine  

Horrors that any gun-owner would disagree with the (Republican) party platform  

So the word is getting out to more people, and that is a bad thing...?  Or is it better to just preach to the choir?

Maybe there should be a political (in)correct-ness test before one is allowed to join the forums and post ?

Now, now.  I did not say that it was a bad thing.  Did you read my post?  All I was commenting on was that I see a change, or difference, thats all.  

[Telperion]

Trolling is only half the problem.  The THR thread mentioned a larger problem -- the signal-to-noise ratio is dropping.  I have to wade through volumes of redundant threads in the technical forums alone to find useful information, and skip (often incorrect) responses that are delivered in some matter-of-fact one-sentence declaration.  On the social forums, I have wade through even greater volumes of meaningless, flippant responses that contribute nothing the original discussion.  Jokes or one of Preacherman's puns help lighten the mood, but in many cases the one-liners and rants overwhelm the actual discussion.  I don't think the mods have the bandwidth to deal with both the trolls and noise posts.

It almost makes me wish there was a digg.com-like moderation system where I could push a button called "This post is noise".  If enough people similarly push that button I don't have to see the post.  Of course, digg now has the problem where people couldn't act rationally and started reading the button as "This post contains an opinion I don't like".

[Tallpine]

"I almost wonder if this is happenstance, or the result of a concerted and conscious effort to wreck havoc with the sites?"

Okay, Mannlicher - I went back and read your post again...
I stand UNcorrected


I think various "off-topic" legal and political discussions are good, because all liberty related issues are at least indirectly related to the RKBA.  I've even changed my viewpoint on a few issues over the decades, so I am open to reading a logical argument even if I don't agree with it.

What is really getting to me are the direct and/or indirect character assasinations of those who express an opposing viewpoint   For instance, if you oppose the War in Iraq, then you must be a "left-wing, Bush-hating, comunnist pinkie fag" or if you oppose the War on Drugs as failed policy then you must be a dope-user, etc .... the list goes on and on.  I've about gotten shy of posting about a lot of stuff anymore, since there seems to be pretty much open season on dissent.

[Guest]

All of the schools out for summer stuff is true. However, I think it goes a little deeper than that. A lot of politics have been changing recently. For one thing its getting harder to define issues based on left and right. What is the right's policy on immigration, and how does it differ from the lefts? How about drugs, social security, healthcare, etc. The lines are a little murkier than they used to be. Also, people are starting to change their minds about the whole war thing these days too.

Many of my views have remained the same for the last ten years or so. However, it seems that some of my opinions, have crossed the isle all by themselves. Things that were considered conservative are now embrased by liberals and visa versa. I think the lesson here is that politicians all have the same goal (achievement of power) and will choose a side based soley on the furtherance of that goal.

I think the real factor here is that we are leaving the post-9/11 period in which everyone pretty much agreed on everything that was important and ignored the things that werent. Right now is a return to normal, rather than a departure. You might consider browsing the archives of pre-9/11 TFL/THR and you will see that the tone more closely resembles the way it is today.

[SteveS]

What is really getting to me are the direct and/or indirect character assasinations of those who express an opposing viewpoint   For instance, if you oppose the War in Iraq, then you must be a "left-wing, Bush-hating, comunnist pinkie fag" or if you oppose the War on Drugs as failed policy then you must be a dope-user, etc .... the list goes on and on.  I've about gotten shy of posting about a lot of stuff anymore, since there seems to be pretty much open season on dissent.

I have noticed the same thing, too, though I can't say it has increased lately.  I was just over at TFL and there was a thread that veered off into a debate involving some type of relgious aspect.  As is typical in many of these debates, it got somewhat nasty.  The thing that I found bothersome was that one of the mods participated in it and shut it down after throwing in some final arguments on the topic.  

I am not suggestint that mods not participate in discussions, but if the topic is one that should be avoided, isn't it better to close down the thread instead of participating in the discussion and then closing it down?

Tallpine, I find that there are a whole lot of assumptions based upon people's views, occupation, etc.  To add to your list, if you are a public school teacher, you must be a "government indoctrinator."  If you are a lawyer, you must be a greedy ambulance chaser.  If you belong to __________ religion, you must be some intolerant kook that wants to force your beliefs on others.

[Guest]

I am an intolerant kook who wants to force my views on others.

[Ron]

I am an intolerant kook who wants to force my views on others.

Forcing by strength of argument is different than at the barrel of a gun.    

Thank God you choose rhetoric over force!!

[mtnbkr]

What is really getting to me are the direct and/or indirect character assasinations of those who express an opposing viewpoint

I saw on one of the two forums (can't recall which, but I'm pretty sure it was THR) a guy accuse people who opposed the death penalty for child molesters as probably being pedophiles themselves.

Chris

[280plus]

What is really getting to me are the direct and/or indirect character assasinations of those who express an opposing viewpoint

Heck, that's nothing new. You have to let it go in one eye and out the other. So to speak. As soon as anyone resorts to those type of tactics they've already lost the argument. The tough part is not replying or better yet, replying in a civil manner.

I agree a Mod shouldn't voice the final opinion and lock a thread. I have seen a few examples of mods taking one side or another in a heated argument when IMHO they should try their best to remain unbiased mediators. I'm not saying it's easy to do that by any means. We all have our little buttons that set us off.