Post by: Desertdog on November 04, 2007, 11:55:30 AM
I vote he would revert back to the old McCain as soon as he was sworn in as President, if elected.
McCain: I've Learned My Lesson on Illegals
http://newsmax.com/headlines/mccain_border_illegals/2007/11/04/46527.html
SIMPSONVILLE, S.C. -- John McCain spent months earlier this year arguing that the United States must combine border security efforts with a temporary worker program and an eventual path to citizenship for many illegal immigrants.
Now, the Republican presidential candidate emphasizes securing the borders first. The rest, he says, is still needed but will have to come later.
"I understand why you would call it a, quote, shift," McCain told reporters Saturday after voters questioned him on his position during back-to-back appearances in this early voting state. "I say it is a lesson learned about what the American people's priorities are. And their priority is to secure the borders."
The shift in approach is likely to draw criticism from McCain's GOP opponents. Immigration has been a flash point in the race, with rivals Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson all seizing on it.
McCain, who has led on the issue in the Senate with Democrat Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, got a wake-up call of sorts in June when Congress again failed to enact a broad immigration proposal that he championed and that split the country.
The measure also exposed deep divisions within the Republican Party, and McCain's high-profile support for it hurt him politically. During debate on the issue as spring turned into summer, the Arizona senator saw his poll numbers in some early primary states slip and his fundraising wane.
Early in the year, McCain told Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina voters the country must take a comprehensive approach strengthening the borders as well as creating a temporary worker program and providing millions of illegal immigrants the opportunity to earn citizenship if they meet certain criteria.
Over the past few months, he has stressed border security first and said border-state governors should certify their borders are secure before making other needed immigration changes.
McCain said he listened to what the public was saying when the legislation failed and responded accordingly.
"I said, OK. We'll secure the borders, but after we secure the borders, we'll have a temporary worker program, we'll have to address the 12 million people here illegally, and I think the best way is the proposal that we had," McCain said.
"It's not a switch in position. I support the same solution. But we've got to secure the borders first," he added.
Given the public outcry, McCain predicted Congress again would fail if it tried to pass broad reforms without ensuring secure borders.
"You've got to respond to the people," he said. "If your job is to succeed in addressing a major issue then you've got to do what's necessary to succeed. We failed."
The issue often stokes passions at McCain's campaign events in South Carolina and elsewhere.
In Simpsonville, S.C., a man asked why McCain had changed his position.
"I haven't. I haven't," the candidate insisted. "I still believe we need to have comprehensive immigration reform, but the lesson is people want the border secure."
"I will secure the border first. That's what Americans want," he said to applause. "They don't want a repeat of 1986 when we said we'd secure the border, gave amnesty to 2 million people and we ended up with insecure borders and more illegal people here," he added.
Earlier, in Irmo, S.C., a women pressed McCain on the issue during a stop at a hot-dog shop.
"This meeting's adjourned," he joked to laughter.
Then, McCain turned serious, and said the issue was one of national security.
"I got the message," he said to clapping. "We will secure the borders first and then go on to other issues."
Post by: CAnnoneer on November 04, 2007, 12:11:49 PM
On the same topic, I watched a Repub poll group on CSPAN yesterday. It was amazing to see that a large percentage of them did not know much about the candidates and obviously had not watched the debates. How can they expect to cast a vote intelligently then? Each probably spent more time watching American Idol or sitcoms. This level of negligence is what makes politicians get away with so much.
Post by: Manedwolf on November 04, 2007, 01:52:22 PM
No.
Had enough of that $%#! with Kerry. Don't need it from a so-called Republican.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 04, 2007, 05:14:23 PM
Post by: roo_ster on November 04, 2007, 05:50:03 PM
I agree with you regarding the desirability of a sincere change of heart in folks. McCain's position previous to his change, however, disqualifies him as a POTUS, in my mind, due to the damage that his previous position has helped to cause. There ought to be consequences for irresponsible behavior.
He is getting what he has earned: rejection from voters.
This all assumes he is sincere...never something to bet on with a politician in the middle of a race.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 04, 2007, 06:07:16 PM
Post by: Balog on November 04, 2007, 06:12:55 PM
Post by: Bogie on November 04, 2007, 08:06:17 PM
Think about it. It's not the "big money" boys who profit. It's small business, or the guy who wants his grass mowed cheaper, or whoever...
Post by: Leatherneck on November 05, 2007, 12:06:44 AM
TC
Post by: Waitone on November 05, 2007, 02:58:33 AM
Post by: richyoung on November 07, 2007, 11:54:12 AM
Concept: Fortune 100 companies (or Fortune 500, for that matter) do not hire illegals. Too much liability, too much news coverage if they get caught.
Think about it. It's not the "big money" boys who profit. It's small business, or the guy who wants his grass mowed cheaper, or whoever...
Think about it. It's not the "big money" boys who profit. It's small business, or the guy who wants his grass mowed cheaper, or whoever...
Bullshize. Visit a hotdog or poultrey plant, & see if you can have a conversation with more than 50% of the employees without having to speak in Spanish.... and those ain't small companies
Post by: Manedwolf on November 07, 2007, 12:01:13 PM
Concept: Fortune 100 companies (or Fortune 500, for that matter) do not hire illegals. Too much liability, too much news coverage if they get caught.
Think about it. It's not the "big money" boys who profit. It's small business, or the guy who wants his grass mowed cheaper, or whoever...
Think about it. It's not the "big money" boys who profit. It's small business, or the guy who wants his grass mowed cheaper, or whoever...
Bullshize. Visit a hotdog or poultrey plant, & see if you can have a conversation with more than 50% of the employees without having to speak in Spanish.... and those ain't small companies
It's the city-sized meatpacking plants that keep getting raided, correct.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 07, 2007, 12:27:50 PM
Post by: Euclidean on November 07, 2007, 01:01:59 PM
so the ability to speak english determines legal status? i didn't know that
Excellent point. I have met many native born and naturalized people who don't speak a word of English.
Post by: Desertdog on November 07, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
Quote
Excellent point. I have met many native born and naturalized people who don't speak a word of English.
I haven't. Isn't naturalized people people that have become citizen? I always thought that a requirement for citizenship was to be able to speak English. I am talking about legal paperwork, not false.
Post by: Euclidean on November 07, 2007, 03:20:20 PM
Quote
Excellent point. I have met many native born and naturalized people who don't speak a word of English.
I haven't. Isn't naturalized people people that have become citizen? I always thought that a requirement for citizenship was to be able to speak English. I am talking about legal paperwork, not false.They manage it somehow, usually with the help of family. I've met them though, usually happens when younger or middle aged hispanics who were born here in the U.S. go through the lottery and paper work to get their abuelita Americanized. There's a small community near here where probably a third of the senior citizens only speak German.
You also have to realize there are different levels of linguistic proficiency that fall short of speaking a language, but still have utility. These people probably do have some limited proficiency with English just like I do with Spanish. I've filled out employment applications and bank forms that were in Spanish before because they were out of the English ones, but I don't speak Spanish and couldn't hold a coherent conversation in Spanish. Thing is, if I can fill out a form with Spanish instructions, it stands to reason anyone could learn enough English to fill out a form. At my old job I used to have to write maintenance requests in Spanish because not all of the maintenance workers spoke English, and they were born in the US with a couple of exceptions, one who was a legal resident alien qualified to work in the US and the other an immigrant.
Along those lines, if you talked to me in Spanish very slowly and used simple words, I could probably understand your general meaning but I couldn't really speak back to you. Similarly, I talk to people every day who can understand the general meaning of what I'm telling them, but who can't respond verbally because they don't speak English. Yeah, it definitely makes life hard, but people can and do live in the US without being proficient English speakers.
Post by: Desertdog on November 07, 2007, 04:33:11 PM
Quote
but people can and do live in the US without being proficient English speakers.
Live here,yes. Citizens, I can be OK with. Naturalized citizen I still have trouble seeing, unless the government changed the rules
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 07, 2007, 05:23:11 PM
need to get out more and perhaps you harbor some bias that makes them brown folk avoid ya.
don't need to speak english for green card
Post by: xd9fan on November 12, 2007, 07:29:21 PM
he is the posterboy under "RINO"
Post by: Desertdog on November 12, 2007, 07:45:01 PM
Post by: Boomhauer on November 13, 2007, 04:23:27 AM
Bullshit.
Post by: MechAg94 on November 13, 2007, 08:04:05 AM
They have done the amnesty thing 2 or 3 times already before so there are a lot of people who got green cards and got on the path to citizenship who probably don't speak much English and likely live and work in areas where they don't need to speak much English. Just about every store or restaurant down here is bilingual to some extent.
I used to work with another guy who could speak Cajun French. He said there are still some small towns in Louisiana where some people barely speak English also. They speak Cajun.
If it wasn't for the laws about teaching and speaking German during WWI and around there, I would likely have learned a little German as a kid. My Grandfather never learned it, but my Great grandparents spoke it around the house all the time or so my mother says.
I catch myself with that attitude about the language also, but I try to remember the above. Also remember that lots of Mexican citizens became US citizens back when the US absorbed Texas, New Mexico, California, and Arizona. Those areas have been bilingual for a long, long time.
Post by: ilbob on November 13, 2007, 10:50:31 AM
isn't that what politics and political pressure is all about?
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 13, 2007, 07:02:05 PM
"I haven't. Isn't naturalized people people that have become citizen? I always thought that a requirement for citizenship was to be able to speak English. I am talking about legal paperwork, not false."
need to get out more and perhaps you harbor some bias that makes them brown folk avoid ya.
don't need to speak english for green card
need to get out more and perhaps you harbor some bias that makes them brown folk avoid ya.
don't need to speak english for green card
He wasn't talking about green card holders, but about naturalized citizens. Since when do citizens hold green cards?
By the way, you two are doing a great job with the English, there.
