how do you read a ruler?

[Brad Johnson]

Shock.

+1

Go metric!

If only...


Brad

[Iain]

Wherein lies the problem with going metric?

[Perd Hapley]

Wherein lies the incentive to change?

Maybe I'm just off my rocker, but I think it symbolizes the difference between the American Revolution and classical American progressivism/liberalism, and the French Revolution and European progressivism/socialism.  That is, the French Revolutionaries overthrew everything they could possibly uproot - even their calender.  The American Revolutionaries were more intellectual, building on traditions they admired while overthrowing opposing tradition.   Thus they kept their religion, language, calender, English common law and units of measurement.  

I'd rather stay in that vein.

[Brad Johnson]

Wherein lies the incentive to change?

um.. because it's a better system?

Brad

[grampster]

Vernier has something to do with ginger ale, eh?   I think them little lines on the tape are called cahungies, as in put that nail at 3 inches and 4 cahungies in from the corner.  

[Nightfall]

Wherein lies the incentive to change?

um.. because it's a better system?

Brad

I started a thread about this back on the old Round Table on THR. I was surprised by how opposed so many people are to using the metric system... I remember a common concern was current measurements, recipes, etc. are under the English system. Apparently the simple math you need to do to convert between the two (that only needs to be done once, at that) is beyond the effort many are willing to put into making a switch.

[Perd Hapley]

um.. because it's a better system?

Explain.

[Marnoot]

Apparently the simple math you need to do to convert between the two (that only needs to be done once, at that) is beyond the effort many are willing to put into making a switch.

I think that's exactly the problem. People have no desire to put forth effort where they don't see it as necessary, or at least see some sufficient benefit in it for them. And really to the average Joe Six-pack, there is no significant advantage to the metric system. I'm personally apathetic about it. If it becomes the standard in the US, I'll probably conform. If not? Meh.

[Brad Johnson]

um.. because it's a better system?

Explain.

The metric system ties all the units of measurement - lenght, weight, and volume - into each other in easily deciphered units of 10. None of this "one acre equals 43560 sq ft", "1 gallon equals 128 fluid ounces", or 1 pound equals 16 ounces" business.

In the metric system 1 of something equals something else in units of 10, and all you have to do to change the units is change the prefix - 'kilo' is one thousand, 'milli' is one thousandth, 'mega' is one million, micro is one millionth.

You use the metric system every day more than you realize. The prefix examples above for some things that you probably use every day. Once you get the prefixes down everything else falls into place. Americans hang onto the English system out of pride and traditionalism.

Furthermore, pretty much the entire world has gone to the metric system because it is a better system. As a result, any of our products designed for export have to be converted, redesigned, or homogenized for use in metric-only countries. The added cost and complexity of doing so makes our products even less competitive in an already competitive market. The products imported into our markets have to be converted to the English system, adding to the consumer cost on goods that might not be available domestically.

Brad

[280plus]

Messin' with cars makes shifting back and forth from metric to SAE real easy.  But the the Engllish dreamed up Whitworth nuts and bolts--which even a Cresccent wrench won't fit.

Art

I had a AMC Eagle, actually a pretty darn good car, holding the master cylinder to the firewall was one metric bolt and one english bolt.

Don't ask me why...

[Perd Hapley]

You use the metric system every day more than you realize.

Explain.

[Art Eatman]

The trouble with the idea of the US going metric is that we'd still need two systems.  Repair of plumbing, for instance.  Land titles and those gazillions of courthouse documents in feet and inches.  Home renovations, with 4x8 panelling and all that.

And most of our 300 million people THINK in English/SAE.  Highway miles is obvious.

Going metric is the tail wagging the dog.  Those who can get along in both systems do so.  For the rest, leave them in comfort.  Sure, soft drinks and whiskey now come in metric.  Ask somebody how much are they getting, though, and they either don't care, or don't really know.

Art

[meinbruder]

I am astounded ... I opened this thread thinking it must be a joke ("Queen Elizabeth was also a ruler..." :D )

I don't ever remember learning how to read a ruler.  Maybe I was born knowing how...?

Tallpine speaks for me, also. I first opened the thread to read and was surprised to even see the question.  (No offense intended gunsmith.)  While I wasnt born knowing how to read a tape, fractions were covered in grade school and I had no problem the day a tape rule was handed to me as an implement of employment.  The first few responses were accurate and helpful so I left it alone.  

I bought a 16 tape with one edge printed in metric for my first job, it was on sale, and I baffled most of the crew by being able to read it both ways.  My come-uppence was the day a customer doubted my measurements and placed his tape along side mine and disputed my dimensions.  He knew metric well enough but wanted to doublecheck for himself.  He was retired from Union Pacific Railroad; they measured everything in tenths of an inch.  Somewhere around here is a ten-foot tape in engineers markings as a souvenir of that day.

I think that knowing there is more than one way of looking at things is more important than being an expert in looking at something.  Understanding a different point of view and being flexible enough to switch back and forth is whats important.  Suddenly I find myself writing about life instead of a tape rule.

English standard, metric, engineers?  Cant we all get along?
Nevermind.  :)
Mike


}:)>

[Perd Hapley]

No.  We can't get along with all these America-hating metric types around.  You bunch of metric-sexual commies.

[gunsmith]

math was my worse subject even though for some reason science was my best, go fig.

Lucky for me my first day was ok, working a cut off saw in a machine shop, 8th's and 16th's...so far so good.

[Iain]

We exist in a sort of halfway house between the two systems. Kilometers as both a measure of distance and of speed mean very little to me, right now the ICC cricket tournament is taking place in India and kph are being used as a measurement of bowling speed by the broadcaster, 137kph doesn't mean a lot to me, but 85mph does. Likewise, 137km doesn't mean a lot, but 85 miles does.

In terms of shorter distances, the width of a room, a field or a desk I tend to think in mm's, cm's and metres. Weight is probably where I am most interchangeable, I know my bodyweight in kg's, lbs and stones. Recipe books here use both imperial and metric, with the advice that if you weigh your flour with one, you should weigh the sugar with the same system. I'm probably of an age when I was taught metric at school and imperial was most often used at home, except that my father is an engineer and so doesn't even use cm's, everything is mm or metres. The time will come when imperial won't mean a lot to the parents, and metric will be used at home and nobody will mourn the passing too much. Some are trying to force the transition, but it will probably just happen on its own. There is no move that I am aware of to change road signs to km, so some things will remain.

Some mourned the passing of old British money, I'm just glad I wasn't alive for the changeover.

fistful - just remember that as far as a metric-sexual is concerned, the average is 12.7cm.

[Perd Hapley]

Some mourned the passing of old British money, I'm just glad I wasn't alive for the changeover.

fistful - just remember that as far as a metric-sexual is concerned, the average is 12.7cm.

Hehe.  You vely funny man, Mr. Iain.  

I thought the pound was in use until just a few years ago.  The Euro currency is not that old, is it?

[Iain]

In 1971 Britain changed from a system where there were 12 pennies to a shilling, and 20 shillings to the pound (thus 240 pennies to the pound) and many bizarre subdivisions of pounds and shillings and pennies existed at different times. Guineas and groats for example. Decimalising this meant switching to 100 pennies to the pound, although half-pennies continued to exist for some time after that.

Britain still has the pound, the euro is unlikely here just yet. Convenient when I go across the Channel though.

[Perd Hapley]

Oh.  Okay.  Here in the states, we still have a few people who understand that a bit or a shilling is 12.5 cents.  Besides that, our money is pretty decimalistic.

[roo_ster]

I grew up doing projects with my dad.  He grew up on the farm and could do everything but weld.  

Reading rulers was just part of working on a project with dad.

As far as the metric system goes, keep it out of everyday measurements.  Sure, I prefer it when doing physics/engineering work, but English/Standard measurements are superior to the metric system due to the installed base in this country.

[Perd Hapley]

fistful - just remember that as far as a metric-sexual is concerned, the average is 12.7cm.

After that 12.7 figure settled into my warm and fecund intelligence, I finally remembered why it is so familiar.  Eastern Bloc "fifty-cals" are of 12.7 mm caliber.  So, obviously 12.7cm would be five inches.  

So, I wonder if a lot of other American gunnies know metric measurements best from comparing 7.62 with .308, etc.

[HankB]

I deal almost exclusively in metric units at work - mostly millimeters, microns, and nanometers, with occasional grams and kilograms, but still find English units more convenient for daily life.

The temperature outside is most conveniently expressed in Fahreneheit rather than centigrade, at least for normal temperatures - two digit centigrade temperatures aren't as precise. (OK, if it gets to -40 degrees, go ahead and use centigrade.)

I find it easier to express tire inflation pressures in pounds per square inch, rather than kilopascals.

You CAN take metrification too far . . . I remember a skit on Saturday Night Live (when it was still sometimes funner) when Dan Ackroyd, playing some bureaucrat, was explaining the new, ten-letter metric alphabet . . .

[Perd Hapley]

I deal almost exclusively in metric units at work -

Then you are clearly a traitor and will be dealt with.  

We've got to stop these metric-Americans.  First, they take over our workplaces with their metrification, so a decent, inches-and-miles-speaking working man can't get a decent job.  Soon, they'll be after our pure, virginal American women with their metric-miscegination.  And the women like them for their large, metric units - even though 12.7cm is actually no bigger than our good old American five inches.

[HankB]

I deal almost exclusively in metric units at work -

Then you are clearly a traitor and will be dealt with.

Well, Patton read Rommel's book in order to understand the enemy . . .

Not convinced? OK . . . today I'll do my part by sending telegrams to NHTSA and the DOT demanding that speed limits on interstate highways henceforth be expressed in furlongs per fortnight, and begin the task of demetrifying the lab at work. (Hmmm . . . what's the conversion factor to go from nanometers to rods . . . using fractions?)

[Iapetus]

So, I wonder if a lot of other American gunnies know metric measurements best from comparing 7.62 with .308, etc.

Except 7.62mm is actually exactly 0.3 inches (and 0.223 inches is not actually 5.56mm).



I am of an age to have been more or less indoctrinated with the Metric system at school (although we did occasionally touch on the Imperial system, as its normally called here).  My parents, or the other hand, always use Imperial, and my father is really against the Metric system

Or rather, the French metric system, because "metric" simply means "measurement", so to call it The Metric System, as if it's the only one, is grossly arrogant.

One criticism he makes is that any innumerate idiot can use the metric system, and consequently you get lots of innumerate idiots empolyed in jobs that require you to have a reasonable head for numbers.


Personally, I tend to use a rather random mixture of the two systems:
* miles for distances, and feet and inches for heights of people (as almost everyone in the UK still does)
* feet for altitude of clouds, hills and aeroplanes (because I used to work in meteorology, and that's what they use).
* metres, feet, centimetres and inches interchangeably for most other lenghts and distances depending which gives the simplest value (e.g. if something is 1m long, I'll call it 1m; if something is 1ft long, I'll call it 1ft, and if something is 1ft long and 2mm thick, I'll call it that as well).

I'm currently working in the UK Hydrographic Office, making sea charts.  I'm in the department that makes charts of the Americas, and since almost all the US data is supplied in feet and fathoms, we use those.  (And distances are in Sea Miles the world over).


My main gripe with the metric system - apart from it being generally soul-less - is the authoritarian and quasi-ideological attitude of many of its proponents, who almost seem to think that the salvation of the world depends on its adoption, and that anyone who prefers the old system is guilty of Opposing Progress and trying to keep people in the dark ages.  This is worst when it actually gets legislated for - a few years ago, the British government actually passed a law making it a criminal offence not only for a shop to give the price of goods either in Imperial units alone, but also to put the Imperial lable in larger text than the Metric one if both were used.

The justification for this would be that "people might get confused", and that the government had to protect them from that.  (The fact that most people understood Imperial, and some only understood it, didn't make a difference.  Nor the notion that even if people were confused, the market would just encourage shops to do what their customers prefered.  I think I even heard someone actually using that as a justification for the legislation - to protect shopkeepers from loosing business if their customers went to someone else).