Author Topic: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation  (Read 12251 times)

Boomhauer

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2011, 08:32:06 PM »
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“You wanna test how damn serious I am about leaving this world, screw with my check that pays for this apartment and food. Try it. See how serious I am. I don’t care,” the California man said. “I have no problem killing myself. Take away the last thing keeping me here, and see what happens. Next time you see me on the news, it will be me in a body bag.”


Go right ahead, fool, go right ahead. I'll give you a Lorcin to do the deed.

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I.... I'm not sure what the heck to say. Why is it that he's been on SSI for 10 years, when there are those in this country in desperate need who are waiting 2+ years for the same welfare?

You ought to see the welfare/disability/any gov't assistance fraud that goes on in my area...you really ought to.

Those who really need it can't get it...but those who don't seem to have no trouble getting on the dole. If we cut out fools like that...well, we'd have a much, much lower bill for "public assistance"...





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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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longeyes

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2011, 09:00:27 PM »
The only difference between this slob and half the under-30 generation is degree.  He's just a more dramatic incarnation of a deeper, broader problem. He's certainly no anomaly.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 10:47:22 AM by longeyes »
"Domari nolo."

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2011, 10:43:52 PM »
The only difference between this slob and half the under-30 generation is degree.  He's just a more dramatic incarnation of a deeper, broader problem. He's certain no anomaly.


I'm thinking we may need the suicide watch for you.  =|

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RevDisk

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2011, 08:19:51 AM »
The only difference between this slob and half the under-30 generation is degree.  He's just a more dramatic incarnation of a deeper, broader problem. He's certain no anomaly.

You can sneer at the under 30 generation.  You have that luxury.  We will be the ones to fix the over-30 generation's long term mistakes.  Not out of choice, but due to probably not being able to pass the buck like the over-30 generation did.  Because the institutions set up by the previous generations will likely fail during our lifespan and at our expense.

I don't see the next few decades being very kind to my generation.  We'll survive.  Folks always do.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

mtnbkr

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2011, 09:32:43 AM »
No, you're still a bunch of whining freeloaders, Longeyes said so.

Chris

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2011, 09:41:47 AM »
No, you're still a bunch of whining freeloaders, Longeyes said so.

Chris

Many are, yes.  Loads more than there should be.  Some of it is influenced by the rather poor and hideously expensive college system.  Hands you a sub-par education and a crippling level of debt that can't be washed away by bankruptcy.  For every whiney freeloader waving a Lenin sign (in 2011?!), there's a dozen kids working their tail off trying to keep their head above water with inflation of non-CPI items (non essentials like fuel and food) and wage stagnation, full well knowing things ain't getting any better for a LONG time.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

mtnbkr

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2011, 10:08:15 AM »
I don't even think "many" are, at least not the ones I tend to see at work or on the trails while biking.  Maybe NoVA is too A-type...

Chris

longeyes

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2011, 10:52:39 AM »
If you think I'm exempting the generation that parented the 30-somethings from censure you're wrong.  There are plenty of great Americans left, of all ages, but I'm not saying anything that controversial in pointing out that a major chunk of America is "untethered." 

We all like to point to our young military people as something to place our hopes in.  Okay. But what percentage of our young people are serving or have served?  It's small. We need to be realistic.  I'm basing my remarks on conversations I've had with under-30s. 
"Domari nolo."

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longeyes

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2011, 11:03:10 AM »

You can sneer at the under 30 generation.  You have that luxury.  We will be the ones to fix the over-30 generation's long term mistakes.  Not out of choice, but due to probably not being able to pass the buck like the over-30 generation did.  Because the institutions set up by the previous generations will likely fail during our lifespan and at our expense.

I don't see the next few decades being very kind to my generation.  We'll survive.  Folks always do.


It was not my intention to promote inter-generational warfare.  I'm well aware that whatever deficiencies I see in the under-30 crowd are largely the result of deficiencies in the over-30 crowd.  I've put it this way in the past: When Americans stopped believing in God, they began worshipping their children.  We live in romantic times; we've been living there since the '60s.  No general population has ever had the great run the Baby Boomers have had; America in the last 60 years has been the best place to live for the average person ever in human history.  Too bad more of us didn't reflect on the uniqueness of that and what it was really based on.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2011, 11:10:32 AM »
If you think I'm exempting the generation that parented the 30-somethings from censure you're wrong.  There are plenty of great Americans left, of all ages, but I'm not saying anything that controversial in pointing out that a major chunk of America is "untethered." 

If that's all you were saying. When you say that an obvious freak like diaper-boy is representative of some broad swath of Americans, then it gets pretty controversial.  Especially when you single out a particular age group.
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PTK

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2011, 11:51:26 AM »
I'm going to throw up for saying this, I'm sure, but longeyes, fistful...... is right. :O


Now that you've elucidated your point it makes much more sense, especially this extremely well-thought-out line... "When Americans stopped believing in God, they began worshipping their children." That about sums up the problem.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2011, 12:30:45 PM »
No, you're still a bunch of whining freeloaders, Longeyes said so.

Chris

I still identify myself as part of that "under 30" demographic rather than over 30... I'm 32. 

I don't mean to initiate a pity-party for my generation, but this phrase is 100% spot-on:

It was not my intention to promote inter-generational warfare. I'm well aware that whatever deficiencies I see in the under-30 crowd are largely the result of deficiencies in the over-30 crowd.  I've put it this way in the past: When Americans stopped believing in God, they began worshipping their children.  We live in romantic times; we've been living there since the '60s.  No general population has ever had the great run the Baby Boomers have had; America in the last 60 years has been the best place to live for the average person ever in human history.  Too bad more of us didn't reflect on the uniqueness of that and what it was really based on.

When you are raised to adulthood to accept moral relativity as a virtue, it is hard to know how to safeguard anything.  Especially a path to behavior that fosters dignity, self respect and responsibility, when those behaviors are actively discouraged.

Everyone calls the WWII generation the "Greatest Generation."  Their exploits in saving the world from fascist totalitarianism and state-sponsored religious zealotry certainly deserve recognition, though they did financially enslave their subsequent generation to do so.

However, that subsequent generation birthed by the "Boom" has definitely earned the moniker of the "Worst Generation."   This country went 170 years with an honorable intergenerational respect for our founding purposes.  And then it was thrown out the window by the combination of FDR and LBJ bleeding-heart programs that enabled leeches like Jack Kerouac and his ilk to manufacture an entire generation of morally inept hippies, and Saul Alinsky to arm them with tools for political warfare to preserve and institutionalize that moral relativity.

We (the under-30's that are awake) are trying to find an anchor.  Sometimes we're successful.  Sometimes we're not.

There IS an intergenerational battle going on right now.  It happens in my house when we get together as a family and wind up talking current events.  It happens in tens of thousands of other homes similar to mine.
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RevDisk

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2011, 12:34:12 PM »
I don't even think "many" are, at least not the ones I tend to see at work or on the trails while biking.  Maybe NoVA is too A-type...

Chris

No, unfortunately, many.  You're not as likely to run into such folks at a professional place of business or on trails, but they are around.  I suspect every generation throughout history has had them.  I have no idea what the statistical breakdown would be, however.


We all like to point to our young military people as something to place our hopes in.  Okay. But what percentage of our young people are serving or have served?  It's small. We need to be realistic.  I'm basing my remarks on conversations I've had with under-30s.  

I served with one of the few remaining soldiers to be drafted into the US Army.  He commented, more than once, that today's military would have curb stomped the US Army of his day, even with equal weapons and equipment.  Today's soldiers are a lot better educated, trained, professional, etc.  From what he heard from his old-timers...  What today's Army would have done to the US Army of WWII, again with equal weapons and equipment, would be described as unseemly in any polite discussion.

Obviously, I don't cotton to veterans being superior moral types.  Knew plenty of scumbags to wear the uniform, including a handful that were enlisted.  But, I'd always give a veteran a heck of a lot more consideration if I had to make a judgment blind.  

Plenty of good kids out there, in or out of uniform.  Plenty more that would be excellent if given the circumstances that allowed them to be.


It was not my intention to promote inter-generational warfare.  I'm well aware that whatever deficiencies I see in the under-30 crowd are largely the result of deficiencies in the over-30 crowd.  I've put it this way in the past: When Americans stopped believing in God, they began worshipping their children.  We live in romantic times; we've been living there since the '60s.  No general population has ever had the great run the Baby Boomers have had; America in the last 60 years has been the best place to live for the average person ever in human history.  Too bad more of us didn't reflect on the uniqueness of that and what it was really based on.

*shrug*  You may be right.  I know plenty of folks that don't worship the Christian, Jewish and Islamic deity.  Some were more moral than folks that very visibly fly the religious flag, some less.  

Personally, my opinion is that religion isn't as important as another factor.  Folks had it too easy for too long.  Made 'em stupid and lazy, when it came to long term planning.  

I came to this theory after talking to a senior executive of a place known for their mushroom, canned food, etc production.  At the time, I was working for a company that sold single aircraft for up to a hundred million a pop.  I was explaining various manufacturing process stupidity to him, and he shook his head, then said "Yep.  High profit margins make ya stupid.  You have a lot less incentive to make lots of little improvements, and they add up.  Lean margins make ya hungry, and ya either smarten up or you're toast."  It made a lot of sense.  Obviously, I have no data to back it up, it's just a thought.  

When life is good and prosperous, you're not planning 30 years down the pike or fighting tooth and nail to improve.  You get mentally soft and indulgent.  Great individuals, like great nations, are not founded on the soft, comfy pillow of prosperity.  They are hammered into shape on the forge of adversity.  




Everyone calls the WWII generation the "Greatest Generation."  Their exploits in saving the world from fascist totalitarianism and state-sponsored religious zealotry certainly deserve recognition, though they did financially enslave their subsequent generation to do so.

However, that subsequent generation birthed by the "Boom" has definitely earned the moniker of the "Worst Generation."   This country went 170 years with an honorable intergenerational respect for our founding purposes.  And then it was thrown out the window by the combination of FDR and LBJ bleeding-heart programs that enabled leeches like Jack Kerouac and his ilk to manufacture an entire generation of morally inept hippies, and Saul Alinsky to arm them with tools for political warfare to preserve and institutionalize that moral relativity.

We (the under-30's that are awake) are trying to find an anchor.  Sometimes we're successful.  Sometimes we're not.

There IS an intergenerational battle going on right now.  It happens in my house when we get together as a family and wind up talking current events.  It happens in tens of thousands of other homes similar to mine.

Aye.  Very astute, in my opinion.  There really is an inter-generational battle going on.  The bill of 70 years is coming due soon.  With interest.  No one group can be "blamed", it was a wide reaching effort on the behalf of many to get to today's situation.

AZRedhawk is correct.  The under-30 crowd is searching for an anchor.  That's basically how Obama got elected.  He promised, in very clear language, that we needed to change our direction.  Granted, he turned out to be Bush's third term instead of delivering on virtually any of his promises, but that's besides the fact.  Every kid, awake or not, is aware we're getting handed an ugly situation that needs to change or we'll be smashed on the rocks. 

Granted, not as many are bright and studious enough to do their homework when it comes to a cheap Chicago political hack, but a surprising amount are.  The number of youth in the Tea Party are another perfect example.  It's the unspoken expression that things are deeply, deeply wrong and need to be changed.  How and what path to take is a bit more fuzzy, but that's always the case. 

If we under 30's'ers (heh) do find our anchor, we WILL deeply change the United States.  With respect, the status quo folks driving us off the cliff are soft and complacent.  That's why we're in this situation.  I have no idea what direction we will go, but again, if that anchor is found...  Hell, it'll make an impression.  I'd say just as much as nuking cities did on General Hideki Tojo.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 12:48:00 PM by RevDisk »
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longeyes

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2011, 12:37:36 PM »
If that's all you were saying. When you say that an obvious freak like diaper-boy is representative of some broad swath of Americans, then it gets pretty controversial.  Especially when you single out a particular age group.

I didn't mean it literally, I meant the tendency toward infantilism, promoted by our government and our culture.
"Domari nolo."

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Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2011, 01:55:20 PM »
The under-30s have grown up surprisingly well. Every generation rebels against their parents, and the current one is, in many cases, rebelling against the excesses of the last generation. It's glorious.

SteveT

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2011, 02:05:51 PM »
The only difference between this slob and half the under-30 generation is degree.  He's just a more dramatic incarnation of a deeper, broader problem. He's certainly no anomaly.

it's not like there's a ton of jobs out there.

I think baby man is getting more than his share of posts on here.   I hope he loses his SSI.   He deserves to.

If it were up to me, I'd be a total hard ass about giving out SSI and I'd require you to get help and training to get off it and reup every few years.   I don't think that's asking too much, right?    We don't have welfare for most non-working people, so why should some minor disability get you lifetime benefits.   I've got plates and screws in my leg from a car accident and I limp walking up stairs, but hey THAT'S LIFE, RIGHT?????
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 03:11:56 PM by SteveT »

Tallpine

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2011, 02:31:27 PM »
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why should some minor disability get you lifetime benefits

It should not.   ;)

But employers don't want to hire anyone with a minor disability.  They will hire somebody in a wheelchair to be their showcase person who doesn't do any work.

But it you have say - back problems, they don't want to have anything to do with you.

Of course I've also seen stores where men were expected to cut fabric, etc but the women always called one of the men when a customer needed 50lb bags of salt carried out  ;/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

PTK

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2011, 02:33:03 PM »
SteveT,

The problem is that in the current employment climate combined with this litigious society, people who have disabilities that require "heavy" medications, frequent stops to sit, trips to the restroom to vomit, etc., are marginalized. I've had a pretty much impossible time finding employment, and it's not for a lack of skills (two associate's degrees) or experience (I've held jobs as a gunsmith, tool and die room manager, apartment maintenance manager, copy center manager, grocery clerk, car salesman, gun store employee, jeweler, leatherworker, and more I can't remember this moment).

My interviews (a few times a month, mind you!) generally go like this...

Them: Well, you seem qualified for our company, but your credit check shows quite a bit of debt. What's the story with that?
Me: Oh, that's medical bills, which I've been paying off since about 2006, but I've not missed one single payment since I set up payment plans.
Them: Medical bills? This kind of credit score reflects at least a mid-five-digit debt.
Me: Yes, it does.
Them: Well, what kind of medical issues do you have?
Me: Things here and there, but they're mostly under control. I am able to work.
Them: I do need to know, since we offer insurance.
Me: I don't want to get insurance through my employer - never have, never want it.
Them: Uh-huh, but I still need to know for health and safety reasons.
Me: Okay, here's a brief overview.... [I fill him in with the details]
Them: Thanks for your time. We'll let you know.


And I never hear back. Ever. :(

The reason I'm mentioning this is that I usually get lumped in with the "about 30 years old, lazy, waste of space, leeching off society". It's frustrating, but even though I feel I can work, and I keep trying to get a job in many different fields, no one will hire me regardless of the fact I'll do skilled labor for minimum wage.

I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes the treatment for only a moderate disability can completely eclipse the possibility of gainful employment.



EDIT: Tallpine, you understand perfectly. Frustrating as hell, no? =|
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Tallpine

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2011, 03:09:32 PM »
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Tallpine, you understand perfectly. Frustrating as hell, no?

Yes.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

SteveT

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2011, 03:10:34 PM »
SteveT,

The problem is that in the current employment climate combined with this litigious society, people who have disabilities that require "heavy" medications, frequent stops to sit, trips to the restroom to vomit, etc., are marginalized. I've had a pretty much impossible time finding employment, and it's not for a lack of skills (two associate's degrees) or experience (I've held jobs as a gunsmith, tool and die room manager, apartment maintenance manager, copy center manager, grocery clerk, car salesman, gun store employee, jeweler, leatherworker, and more I can't remember this moment).

My interviews (a few times a month, mind you!) generally go like this...

Them: Well, you seem qualified for our company, but your credit check shows quite a bit of debt. What's the story with that?
Me: Oh, that's medical bills, which I've been paying off since about 2006, but I've not missed one single payment since I set up payment plans.
Them: Medical bills? This kind of credit score reflects at least a mid-five-digit debt.
Me: Yes, it does.
Them: Well, what kind of medical issues do you have?
Me: Things here and there, but they're mostly under control. I am able to work.
Them: I do need to know, since we offer insurance.
Me: I don't want to get insurance through my employer - never have, never want it.
Them: Uh-huh, but I still need to know for health and safety reasons.
Me: Okay, here's a brief overview.... [I fill him in with the details]
Them: Thanks for your time. We'll let you know.


And I never hear back. Ever. :(

The reason I'm mentioning this is that I usually get lumped in with the "about 30 years old, lazy, waste of space, leeching off society". It's frustrating, but even though I feel I can work, and I keep trying to get a job in many different fields, no one will hire me regardless of the fact I'll do skilled labor for minimum wage.

I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes the treatment for only a moderate disability can completely eclipse the possibility of gainful employment.



EDIT: Tallpine, you understand perfectly. Frustrating as hell, no? =|

Hmmm... I'm sorry if I'm not more understanding.  I haven't had to look for a job in a long time.

PTK

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2011, 03:16:14 PM »
I'm not looking for understanding - just wanted to give everyone reading this another perspective as there might be issues they didn't think of. :)
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Tallpine

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2011, 03:44:15 PM »
I'm not looking for understanding - just wanted to give everyone reading this another perspective as there might be issues they didn't think of. :)

1) I don't think the original subject of this thread should be getting disability benefits

2) I don't think that the feral goverment should be in the disability insurance business

3) I don't think that it's wrong for an individual in need to apply for benefits, especially after paying taxes for years, even if that individual ascribes to #2


Dong ma?
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

PTK

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2011, 03:50:10 PM »
Completely. :)

I entirely share your views on all three parts.
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

MicroBalrog

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2011, 04:00:03 PM »
"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

PTK

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Re: Baby-Man collecting SSI, Coburn calls for investigation
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2011, 04:05:56 PM »
MB, I know that you are aware that quote, in this context, is a strawman argument. =|
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."