OUTRAGE! OUTRAGE!

[wmenorr67]

I also have seen where several firms that received bail out money are behind on taxes.

[Perd Hapley]

If I write a bill that says "All citizens are exempt from future tax increases" but it comes out of committee as "All citizens born before 1850 are exempt from future tax increases" do you see the difference? Do you blame me or the person who added the extra language for you being exposed to future tax increases?

Dodd's amendment would have prevented bonuses. The version that came out of committee allowed bonuses already agreed upon but prevented new bonuses. He still voted for it, so he's as accountable as everyone else who voted for the bill - but he doesn't deserve to be specifically blamed for adding a "loophole" to allow these AIG bonuses. It would appear that came from some treasury officials.

I would agree with that.  As long as we can still blame Democrats, I'm happy.   

[Gewehr98]

Neither cares what the voter thinks, because they have achieved the tipping point where 50% of voters don't pay taxes.

Gonna have to call that one out, too.

Sources, please, or your credibility is suspect.

[wquay]

Gonna have to call that one out, too.

Sources, please, or your credibility is suspect.

It's getting close to that for income tax liability.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do_40_percent_of_americans_pay_no.html

But for "taxes" in general, not even close.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Doesn't anyone out there know someone who works on Wall Street or in the financial industry?  Is everyone simply ignorant of how compensation packages work for these sorts of jobs?

Wall Street guys work for low (below market value) monthly salaries in exchange for receiving large lump sum payments at year end.  These year end payments aren't bonuses, they're normal wages.  Sometimes they're structured as a predefined sum (think "normal salary", except paid once yearly instead of once a week).  Other times they're set up as commissions (earn $10mil for your company during the year, they'll pay you 10% at year end).

This Populist Rage Tax has only one purpose and will produce only one outcome.  It will drive skilled workers away from the financial companies, destroying Wall Street.

Take a moment and ponder what would happen to the US if we ceased to be the world's financial heart.  We as a nation need to ask ourselves why the current administration and congressional leadership would want to cause such a thing.

[ronnyreagan]

It will drive skilled workers away from the financial companies, destroying Wall Street.

While you're right on about how these compensation packages are constructed, one could ague that these workers might not be so "skilled" considering they ran their firms into the ground. People aren't (or at least shouldn't be) angry over people being paid for good performance, but the perception at least is that these people are being rewarded despite doing a remarkably terrible job. The populist outrage has some merit considering without taxpayer support these companies would be bankrupt and these people would have no jobs and (I assume) no bonuses.

[Scout26]

While you're right on about how these compensation packages are constructed, one could ague that these workers might not be so "skilled" considering they ran their firms into the ground. People aren't (or at least shouldn't be) angry over people being paid for good performance, but the perception at least is that these people are being rewarded despite doing a remarkably terrible job. The populist outrage has some merit considering without taxpayer support these companies would be bankrupt and these people would have no jobs and (I assume) no bonuses.

The probelm is that just because that firm or even that segment of the firm did bad, those people that did their jobs and earned their bonuses are beign lambasted.  The truth is that we don't have enough facts to determine if the people receiving the bonuses are the ones who actually screwed up.

If the .gov and the people are so upset over this, then why did they bail them out in the first place ??  What did they think would happen, employees would still come to work and not get paid ??

[Monkeyleg]

If the .gov and the people are so upset over this, then why did they bail them out in the first place ??

You're assuming that members of congress actually read the legislation, that Obama's advisors had read the legislation and gave him the Cliff's Notes version, that the newspapers explained the legislation, the public was paying attention, and Christopher Dodd didn't know what was in his amendment.

[Nitrogen]

While you're right on about how these compensation packages are constructed, one could ague that these workers might not be so "skilled" considering they ran their firms into the ground. People aren't (or at least shouldn't be) angry over people being paid for good performance, but the perception at least is that these people are being rewarded despite doing a remarkably terrible job. The populist outrage has some merit considering without taxpayer support these companies would be bankrupt and these people would have no jobs and (I assume) no bonuses.

You could argue that, but as far as I've seen, they are contractually obligated to pay them.  Perhaps it's yet another sign of poor management, but the contracts were in force before the bailout, and the bailout did not specifically negate them at the time, so I see no reason they shoudn't be paid.

Well, other than those bonuses seem to be more than I make in a year.

And therein lies the real problem, jealousy.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

While you're right on about how these compensation packages are constructed, one could ague that these workers might not be so "skilled" considering they ran their firms into the ground. People aren't (or at least shouldn't be) angry over people being paid for good performance, but the perception at least is that these people are being rewarded despite doing a remarkably terrible job. The populist outrage has some merit considering without taxpayer support these companies would be bankrupt and these people would have no jobs and (I assume) no bonuses.

The perception is that these people are being "rewarded" at all.  They aren't being rewarded, they're being made whole.  They're simply being paid the wages that are owed to them.

It doesn't matter whether any individual trader turned a profit or not.  He should be paid the wages he was promised for the work he performed.  And the rest of the country should shut the eff up about it.

Don't forget that the very purpose of giving the money to AIG in the first place was to prevent bankruptcy.  That means AIG is supposed to use the money to pay back the people it owed, including all of their employees!

This whole manufactured mess is stupidity on stilts.  Anyone who stops to actually think about what's happening here, instead of simply feeling emotional class envy, would realize that AIG did the right thing here.

And therein lies the real problem, jealousy.

Exactly.

[slingshot]

I wish I knew more about the details of the so called "bonuses" being paid by AIG to employees and former employees in their financial arm.  I do think there is some jealousy and class envy going on.  IF these employees were contracturally promised these bonuses regardless of the outcome of their endevors, then the bonuses should be paid.  IF not, NO BONUS since the job was not well done.  New employment contracts should provide bonus based purely on individual preformance relative to company preformance.  You want to blame somebody for the bonuses?  Blame the politicians.

What are bonues for?  For me they reward good work and the good work contributes to the success of the company.  Getting billions of dollars of bailout money from the government is not getting the job done. 

The government just needs to get out of the redistribution of income and social engineering business.  Failures.  Things are falling apart slowly.  Two words, Tea Bag.  IF they want to fix things for the time being, drop all payroll (income and fica) taxes for 3 months or for one 1/4 of the total years income stream.  That would be an immediate stimulus.

[dogmush]

I also don't find myself buying into the manufactured outrage.  The loan was specifically stuctured to allow for these payments, Congress and the Executive OK'd the loan.  AIG makes the payments.  It seems pretty straight forward to me.  If we wanted AIG to be able to get out of previously written contracts, maybe Chap 11 would have been the place for that.

Also, I think XKCD makes a decent point:

[Perd Hapley]

For proper context, we'd need a picture of the daughter.   

[Balog]

It's sad how much of politics is class warfare over manufactured scandals.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

It's sad how much of politics is class warfare over manufactured scandals.

That's a matter of perspective.  I bet Obama would have a vastly different opinion on the virtues of class warfare.