Post by: Silver Bullet on January 30, 2006, 02:57:22 PM
I was never a Chevy guy, but this car looks great. It simultaneously manages to capture the proportions and styling cues from the 1969 Camaro with a modern edginess (think Cadillac) to its treatment of the grill and taillights. I see some deja vu: forty years ago Ford introduced the Mustang, and two years later GM followed with the Camaro and Firebird. Now Ford is selling its new 1967/8/9 retro Mustang, and here comes Chevy with a retro Camaro.
The magazine was guessing that if the car goes into production, it could be here in 2009.
Last month the car magazines were showing a Dodge concept version of the Challenger. It was also a retro version in that the original car could be clearly seen in the lines. The first Challenger was a very "clean" design, and while I liked the new version, I think it is a little too clean.
I much prefer the edginess that Chevy designed into the new Camaro.
Post by: ...has left the building. on January 30, 2006, 03:35:51 PM
But it does put out 400hp which is 66hp/liter. Compare this with a Honda S2K which puts out 110hp/liter...
If this is one of the car's that GM is counting on to save itself, it is in dire straits.
Post by: esheato on January 30, 2006, 04:02:20 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 30, 2006, 04:49:17 PM
http://www.roadandtrack.com/
Post by: garyk/nm on January 30, 2006, 05:19:05 PM
Sorry, GM, if that is the best you can do, see you in bankruptcy court. I see NOTHING of the original in that abomination.
Post by: Strings on January 30, 2006, 05:40:50 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 30, 2006, 05:44:22 PM
Quote
see NOTHING of the original in that abomination
Are you kidding ? The side profile and sculpturing ? The inset grill with headlights ?Here's the original:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cricketfood.com/images/ext1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cricketfood.com/popup_image.php/pID/192&h=482&w=640&sz=80&tbnid=lutRjEtvSVsJ:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1969%2Bcamaro%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D&oi=imagesr&start=1
Post by: ...has left the building. on January 30, 2006, 05:48:24 PM
Quote from: Silver Bullet
Quote
see NOTHING of the original in that abomination
Are you kidding ? The side profile and sculpturing ? The inset grill with headlights ?Here's the original:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cricketfood.com/images/ext1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cricketfood.com/popup_image.php/pID/192&h=482&w=640&sz=80&tbnid=lutRjEtvSVsJ:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1969%2Bcamaro%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D&oi=imagesr&start=1
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 30, 2006, 06:06:04 PM
Quote
The new Challenger looks more like that than the new Camaro does...
Hmmm, no.Heres the Dodge Challenger concept car:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/04/dodge_challenger/
and the 1970 version:
http://www.dealsonwheels.com/search/detailbig.cfm/Autos__ID/000817-200601-000015
Post by: Dannyboy on January 30, 2006, 06:08:25 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 30, 2006, 06:18:55 PM
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/01/07/detroit-2006-chevrolet-camaro-concept-revealed/
http://my.opera.com/SerbianFighter/albums/show.dml?id=29395
http://www.motorcities.com/contents/06/2009-Chevrolet-Camaro-Concept-16-Full-Size-Photos_06A8L425606602.html
Post by: 280plus on January 31, 2006, 03:18:00 AM
I've only got ~64,000 on my 2001 E-250. I've had the rotors turned twice and guess what, they're already warped again. I've replace THREE of these new fangled sprk plug coil packs at $160 each for the parts. "Built Ford Tough". Yea,,,ok...
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 31, 2006, 03:56:03 AM
Quote
Plus I don't think you can get the big motor in it.
According to the magazine, "Beneath the hood is a 6.0 liter LS2 400-bhp V8 ..." Quote
the thing runs like a top
I hate cars that spin around. 
Post by: 280plus on January 31, 2006, 04:08:04 AM
Quote
According to the magazine, "Beneath the hood is a 6.0 liter LS2 400-bhp V8 ..."
I meant the Mustang. But don't think 6.0 liters of 400 HP doesn't interest me. 
Quote
I hate cars that spin around.
Where's your sense of adventure? 
OK, here's another one I love, "It still has a lot of pep."
LOL...
Post by: brimic on January 31, 2006, 04:35:41 AM
Post by: richyoung on January 31, 2006, 05:30:23 AM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
I
But it does put out 400hp which is 66hp/liter. Compare this with a Honda S2K which puts out 110hp/liter...
.
OK - you ASKED for it - at 237 Hp , the rice grinder is still 163 horses short of the party - and thats WITHOUT considering the fact that you have to rev the F20 up past the Chevy's red line to get any usable torque out of the thing. But it does put out 400hp which is 66hp/liter. Compare this with a Honda S2K which puts out 110hp/liter...
.
But, its a free country. If fart cans and galvanized "wings" are your thing, and you confuse "Fast and Furious" with a documentary, go right ahead - buy a "honduh", paint it up like a package of Ramen noodles, & get after it...
Post by: charby on January 31, 2006, 06:29:53 AM
I do like the looks of the camero and challenger concept cars.
Charby
Post by: mtnbkr on January 31, 2006, 06:33:25 AM
Quote from: richyoung
OK - you ASKED for it - at 237 Hp , the rice grinder is still 163 horses short of the party - and thats WITHOUT considering the fact that you have to rev the F20 up past the Chevy's red line to get any usable torque out of the thing.
But, its a free country. If fart cans and galvanized "wings" are your thing, and you confuse "Fast and Furious" with a documentary, go right ahead - buy a "honduh", paint it up like a package of Ramen noodles, & get after it...
That's racist.But, its a free country. If fart cans and galvanized "wings" are your thing, and you confuse "Fast and Furious" with a documentary, go right ahead - buy a "honduh", paint it up like a package of Ramen noodles, & get after it...
Chris
Post by: brimic on January 31, 2006, 06:51:48 AM
Quote
OK - you ASKED for it - at 237 Hp , the rice grinder is still 163 horses short of the party - and thats WITHOUT considering the fact that you have to rev the F20 up past the Chevy's red line to get any usable torque out of the thing.
I'd take a Subaru STI- I'm sold on the concept of a little less engine, a lot less weight, and a lot better handling paradigm when it comes to sports cars. Its alot easier to add more horsepower to a light car than it is to lighten up a heavy one.
Post by: brimic on January 31, 2006, 07:30:48 AM
GM has to be run by the dumbest people on earth.
I filled up for $2.50/gallon this morning. Just how many 6.0L engined behemoth cars does GM think its going to sell?
I'd love to sit on on one of their planning meetings I bet I'd hear something like this-
Mentally Challenged GM manager No.1 "Our sales of the world's biggest gas guzzling SUV in the world hasn't been as good as we expected, I guess we should have looked at gas prices before marketing it.
Mentally Challenged GM manager No.2 "But it does have a cool sexually suggestive name that no man can say with a straight face"
Mentally Challenged GM manager No.1 "that's true, lets keep building them."
Mentally Challenged GM manager No.3 "I got an idea. Lets ressurrect that nameplate that evokes thoughts of trailer parks across America, make it somewhat ugly so that it looks like some artist worked on it, and put the biggest engine in it that we've used in 25 years for a car. We can market it to aging baby boomers as they will be the only ones who can afford it."
Mentally Challenged GM manager No.1 "MCGMM No.3, you're a genius! Lets also build another car indistinguishable from it under another brand name."
Mentally Challenged GM manager No.2 "Wow! this is like histroy in the making, we'll be able to sell twice as many cars under 2 brand names!"
Post by: K Frame on January 31, 2006, 07:42:06 AM
I've never had even the slightest big of interest in a Camaro.
I lost all interest in Corvettes when they made the assend as big as Big Momma's, just because people were bitching they couldn't put any junk in the trunk...
Their family cars are enough to put even the most excitable person to sleep in a matter of moments they're so boring.
About the only thing that GM has going for it, in my view, are the Suburban and the full-size pick up.
But even the 1500 pales in comparison to the F150, which in my view pales in comparison to the Tacoma.
Personally?
I think I'll just stick with my Subaru Outback.
Post by: charby on January 31, 2006, 08:09:23 AM
Quote from: Mike Irwin
Their family cars are enough to put even the most excitable person to sleep in a matter of moments they're so boring.
About the only thing that GM has going for it, in my view, are the Suburban and the full-size pick up.
So true.. So true... About the only thing that GM has going for it, in my view, are the Suburban and the full-size pick up.
I still wish they made the S-10 pickup truck, I do not like the Colorado and the upgrade to mid sized truck. I'm trying to figure out what happened to the more fuel efficient vehicles GM used to produce, or fuel efficient engines. I have a 91 S-10 2wd with a 2.8 and 5 speed and I can still get 30mpg at interstate speeds pulling my 14' boat and loaded down with camping/fishing gear. I would love to buy a new S-10 with the same combination of engine and transmission.
C
Post by: pauli on January 31, 2006, 10:01:21 AM
as for the camaro concept... it looks like a chrysler.
Post by: brimic on January 31, 2006, 10:15:45 AM
Quote
t's my understanding that a c5 with an ls1 can get 35mpg on the highway, if driven right.
You mean if driven downhill, both ways?
Post by: 280plus on January 31, 2006, 10:34:52 AM
Quote
s for the camaro concept... it looks like a chrysler.
My thoughts exactly. The front looks like Chrysler the rear looks like Ford.So it's either a Frysler or a Chord.
Post by: El Tejon on January 31, 2006, 10:50:33 AM
O.K., so much for the Chamber of Commerce stuff. I like the concept. I helped my buddy build a '69 Camaro in high school. I see a bit of the '69 in this concept. Anyone else see that?
Post by: K Frame on January 31, 2006, 11:36:50 AM
Don't you be dissing the Cords!
They were GREAT American luxury cars!
If I'm not mistaken, Cord was the first manufacturer to offer retractable headlights.
Any way you cut it, THIS is a great looking car!
Post by: mfree on January 31, 2006, 12:58:20 PM
Post by: ...has left the building. on January 31, 2006, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: richyoung
Quote from: Daniel Flory
I
But it does put out 400hp which is 66hp/liter. Compare this with a Honda S2K which puts out 110hp/liter...
.
OK - you ASKED for it - at 237 Hp , the rice grinder is still 163 horses short of the party - and thats WITHOUT considering the fact that you have to rev the F20 up past the Chevy's red line to get any usable torque out of the thing. But it does put out 400hp which is 66hp/liter. Compare this with a Honda S2K which puts out 110hp/liter...
.
But, its a free country. If fart cans and galvanized "wings" are your thing, and you confuse "Fast and Furious" with a documentary, go right ahead - buy a "honduh", paint it up like a package of Ramen noodles, & get after it...
(For those of you that don't get it, the white racist statements were made to make a point.)
Post by: ...has left the building. on January 31, 2006, 01:41:47 PM
Quote from: mtnbkr
That's racist.
Chris
Hence my response; maybe Rich doesn't realize that some people are Asian...and Caucasian...I can hardly contain the awesome in my own body Chris
Post by: ...has left the building. on January 31, 2006, 01:43:20 PM
Quote from: brimic
I'd take a Subaru STI- I'm sold on the concept of a little less engine, a lot less weight, and a lot better handling paradigm when it comes to sports cars. Its alot easier to add more horsepower to a light car than it is to lighten up a heavy one.
Now that my friends is a driver with a mature outlook on cars. Chevy did get it right with the Z06 C6; they used ultralight materials and the results really show.
Post by: crt360 on January 31, 2006, 02:23:17 PM
Post by: mtnbkr on January 31, 2006, 03:17:35 PM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Quote from: mtnbkr
That's racist.
Chris
Hence my response; maybe Rich doesn't realize that some people are Asian...and Caucasian...I can hardly contain the awesome in my own body Chris
I can't say I understand your insistence that a dislike (ok, scorn) of "ricers" equals racism. Around here, "ricers" come from all ethnic groups. The only commonality is their love of used up economy cars festooned with cheap bolt on junk.
When I hear "ricer", I don't think black, brown, white, yellow, etc. I think young (16-30) punk in a junky car. It has mismatched colors, a coffee can exhaust tip hanging off a cheap muffler, crappy tint job, and a lowering job accomplished with cut springs. If the car is less than 10 years old, it's a miracle. Often, the parts weren't even designed for that car. How about a Civic with the spoiler from an Eclipse, Type R stickers for your Hyundai, and Honda badges on the Celica.
No race involved, just mindset...
Chris
Post by: ...has left the building. on January 31, 2006, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: mtnbkr
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Quote from: mtnbkr
That's racist.
Chris
Hence my response; maybe Rich doesn't realize that some people are Asian...and Caucasian...I can hardly contain the awesome in my own body Chris
But seriously, if I called chromed out cars/SUVs "*let's not go there* Sleds" or "Darkie Wagons" would that be okay? I completely agree that a lot of cars are modified with bad taste. Bad taste + no cash + crappy old car = a real POS.
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 31, 2006, 03:32:14 PM
Quote
It needs a Cylon red-eye scanning back and forth behind the grill.
Hah! You can bet that some after market company will come up with that.
Post by: brimic on January 31, 2006, 04:53:23 PM
Quote
It needs a Cylon red-eye scanning back and forth behind the grill.
Hah! You can bet that some after market company will come up with that.
You mean like this: http://www.knightrideronline.com/
Hah! You can bet that some after market company will come up with that.
Post by: crt360 on January 31, 2006, 05:22:33 PM
I totally forgot about KITT. Yeah, something like that. But it would be much more impressive in the new Camaro's grill.
Post by: richyoung on February 01, 2006, 08:55:40 AM
Quote from: mtnbkr
Quote from: richyoung
OK - you ASKED for it - at 237 Hp , the rice grinder is still 163 horses short of the party - and thats WITHOUT considering the fact that you have to rev the F20 up past the Chevy's red line to get any usable torque out of the thing.
But, its a free country. If fart cans and galvanized "wings" are your thing, and you confuse "Fast and Furious" with a documentary, go right ahead - buy a "honduh", paint it up like a package of Ramen noodles, & get after it...
That's racist.But, its a free country. If fart cans and galvanized "wings" are your thing, and you confuse "Fast and Furious" with a documentary, go right ahead - buy a "honduh", paint it up like a package of Ramen noodles, & get after it...
Chris
Post by: richyoung on February 01, 2006, 08:58:43 AM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Quote from: richyoung
Quote from: Daniel Flory
I
But it does put out 400hp which is 66hp/liter. Compare this with a Honda S2K which puts out 110hp/liter...
.
OK - you ASKED for it - at 237 Hp , the rice grinder is still 163 horses short of the party - and thats WITHOUT considering the fact that you have to rev the F20 up past the Chevy's red line to get any usable torque out of the thing. But it does put out 400hp which is 66hp/liter. Compare this with a Honda S2K which puts out 110hp/liter...
.
But, its a free country. If fart cans and galvanized "wings" are your thing, and you confuse "Fast and Furious" with a documentary, go right ahead - buy a "honduh", paint it up like a package of Ramen noodles, & get after it...
(For those of you that don't get it, the white racist statements were made to make a point.)
Post by: richyoung on February 01, 2006, 09:04:27 AM
Quote from: mtnbkr
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Quote from: mtnbkr
That's racist.
Chris
Hence my response; maybe Rich doesn't realize that some people are Asian...and Caucasian...I can hardly contain the awesome in my own body Chris
I can't say I understand your insistence that a dislike (ok, scorn) of "ricers" equals racism. Around here, "ricers" come from all ethnic groups. The only commonality is their love of used up economy cars festooned with cheap bolt on junk.
When I hear "ricer", I don't think black, brown, white, yellow, etc. I think young (16-30) punk in a junky car. It has mismatched colors, a coffee can exhaust tip hanging off a cheap muffler, crappy tint job, and a lowering job accomplished with cut springs. If the car is less than 10 years old, it's a miracle. Often, the parts weren't even designed for that car. How about a Civic with the spoiler from an Eclipse, Type R stickers for your Hyundai, and Honda badges on the Celica.
No race involved, just mindset...
Chris
Post by: K Frame on February 01, 2006, 09:22:32 AM
"Mike Irwin, the people of Lafayette thank you for buying your Outback"
I'd like to get ahold of the people of Lafayette responsible for putting the oil pump O ring seal in the engine. That's the biggest problem with the Outback. Mine failed 2 years ago, was fixed, and it's in the process of failing again.
I'll have it fixed again, for another $680 because the oil pump is buried under so much crap, and again file a protest with Subaru and NTSB, to no avail.
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 01, 2006, 09:25:31 AM
Also, what did you have to compare your '94 Formula to? Before my Civic, I owned a BMW M3. And I've driven a 996, Evo VIII, 350Z, Mercedes CLK-55 AMG, modded 240SX, C5 Corvette and on and on. I've been behind the wheel of two different Gen IV Camaros, an early 90's Z28 and an '01 SS. Neither time did I walk away even remotely impressed.
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 01, 2006, 09:41:59 AM
Post by: Dannyboy on February 01, 2006, 12:00:33 PM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
the fact that the Camaro is a joke.
This is a fact? How do you figure? I must have missed the statement GM released saying, "We were just kidding. We're not really gonna bring the Camaro back." Seems to me, you're just as guilty of what you're accusing Rich of (but in a reverse way).
Post by: richyoung on February 01, 2006, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: Daniel
Rich- I see you made absolutely no attempt to counter the fact that the Camaro is a joke.
Since the new Camero isn't a joke, I felt no need to respond to that chimera....Quote from: Daniel
Idiots drive all kinds of cars believe it or not.
Yes, but nigh unto ALL ricers are idiots. Hence the huge muffler attached to an exhaust pipe the size of a small garden hose....Quote from: Daniel
Also, what did you have to compare your '94 Formula to?
Dad runs a car business in Amarillo, plus I've knocked about a few car lots in my time. Had a 911 in Germany that left me completely underwhelmed, (I much prefered the '64 Mercedes coup...) Quote from: Daniel
Before my Civic, I owned a BMW M3.
Damn - did you get wiped out in the dot.com bust? Sorry to here it...Quote from: Daniel
And I've driven a 996, Evo VIII, 350Z, Mercedes CLK-55 AMG, modded 240SX, C5 Corvette and on and on. I've been behind the wheel of two different Gen IV Camaros, an early 90's Z28 and an '01 SS. Neither time did I walk away even remotely impressed.
An off-the-lot 13 second ride that handles and brakes with world-class exotica, and your not impressed. Perhaps you should mosey on over to the boys at Road & track and Motortrend, and explain to them the error of their ways....
Post by: richyoung on February 01, 2006, 01:13:09 PM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Rich- I forgot to add: Yes on most FF cars the spoiler is useless. But you're showing your ignorance of racing in general if you think they're useless on on FF cars. There is actually racing in the world that uses left AND right hand turns; one being the BTCC. This series utilizes FF cars and yes they have spoilers.
You need to KNOW someone a little better before you start slinging the "ignorance" tag around. I'm well aware that in the impoverished former parts of the Commonwealth, they race econoboxes, and think a Mini is race car. Perhaps YOU'VE never heard of Can-AM, Trans-AM, Watkins Glenn -= chaps like Marke Donahue, etc?
Post by: richyoung on February 01, 2006, 01:18:09 PM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Quote from: mtnbkr
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Hence my response; maybe Rich doesn't realize that some people are Asian...and Caucasian...I can hardly contain the awesome in my own body
I was joking. Just poking fun because I knew you'd have something to say on the matter.But seriously, if I called chromed out cars/SUVs "*let's not go there* Sleds" or "Darkie Wagons" would that be okay?
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 01, 2006, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: richyoung
Quote from: Daniel
Rich- I see you made absolutely no attempt to counter the fact that the Camaro is a joke.
Since the new Camero isn't a joke, I felt no need to respond to that chimera....Yes, but nigh unto ALL ricers are idiots. Hence the huge muffler attached to an exhaust pipe the size of a small garden hose....
Dad runs a car business in Amarillo, plus I've knocked about a few car lots in my time. Had a 911 in Germany that left me completely underwhelmed, (I much prefered the '64 Mercedes coup...)
Damn - did you get wiped out in the dot.com bust? Sorry to here it...
An off-the-lot 13 second ride that handles and brakes with world-class exotica, and your not impressed. Perhaps you should mosey on over to the boys at Road & track and Motortrend, and explain to them the error of their ways....
2- Just because there isn't a name for this guy* I saw the other day, it doesn't mean he isn't an idiot either.
*A guy driving a late model Monte Carlo SS with NASCAR numbers on it, flat black rims, and Goodyears with the yellow lettering.
3- Sounds like you must have had a pretty good time in Germany. Was your 911 N/A or turbo? Which generation was it? The only Porsches I've driven were the Boxster S and the 996 Turbo. Did you make it to any tracks while you were there?
4- Damn, I have more cash/assets now than I ever have. I sold the M3 to get into motorcycling. The plans are to have a Civic coupe for A-B, a bike of some sort, and an S2K. I don't currently belong to SCCA or have any track experience so I'm going to use the Civic to start autox. Then after I get the MBA, I'll be moving to a bigger city and picking up the S2K.
5- Are you referring to the Camaro when you say "handles and brakes with world-class exotica"? If so, I've very, very confused. And I don't engage in magazine races since they're completely pointless.
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 01, 2006, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: richyoung
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Quote from: mtnbkr
I was joking. Just poking fun because I knew you'd have something to say on the matter.
D'oh! Foiled again! But seriously, if I called chromed out cars/SUVs "*let's not go there* Sleds" or "Darkie Wagons" would that be okay?
Post by: LadySmith on February 02, 2006, 12:39:55 AM
How the heck did this thread devolve from a simple matter of taste in cars to totally tasteless name calling and racist mud-slinging??? There are better ways to make your points than resorting to that nonsense. For goodness' sake, we just lost Mrs. King. If you don't like certain cars or what others do to them, don't buy it & don't look. This is still a somewhat free country. I passed a beat up '70s VW van with with spinner rims the other day & all it did was make me smile. Their transport, their money, they can do what they want.
Ahem.
In answer to the original question, I didn't like the Camaro concept car at first but after viewing it from different angles, it's starting to grow on me. I do miss chrome bumpers, and I do like the Challenger better. Its lines are smoother, not as sharp & boxy. I also like the idea of a Cylon-type red eye in the Camaro's grille.
Post by: Iain on February 02, 2006, 01:59:41 AM
It's not too bad looking, but as someone else alluded to - 6.0l engine? I appreciate these cars are not aimed at the European market, but...
We had a bit of a heyday of the old fashioned muscle car just last year when Vauxhall began importing the car that they made for the Australian market, the Monaro. That was about 3.5l, rear wheel drive and apparently needed windscreen wipers on the door windows.
To back Daniel up, there is nothing of the 'ricer' about the S2000. It's a two seater sports car that happens to be Japanese. It also has topped customer satisfaction surveys over here for several years, surveys that include reliability and fun.
Apparently the newest thing in European motoring is smaller engines than ever. The VW Golf 2.0 GTi is to have a new stablemate - the 1.4 GTi Turbo. Better fuel economy and extremely similar performance I read.
Post by: Silver Bullet on February 02, 2006, 03:50:18 AM
Quote
To back Daniel up, there is nothing of the 'ricer' about the S2000. It's a two seater sports car that happens to be Japanese. It also has topped customer satisfaction surveys over here for several years, surveys that include reliability and fun.
I like the S2000. I remember a review the first year it came out where the reviewer described it as the "double-espresso of sports cars" because you had to dial it up to nine-tenths before its racy attributes really shined. If I were spending $40K on a roadster, it or a Boxster would probably be my choice.
Post by: 280plus on February 02, 2006, 04:03:56 AM
The term riceburner originated in the world of motorcycles When the first Hondas were "making the scene" back in the 60's. I've never considered it as being racist. Of course, the PC alarm wasn't set quite as sensitive back then either.
My determination is I think we should all go down and test drive one of these 425 HP camaros and decide for ourselves.
We could start a new club, the "APS Test Drive Club" and test these new cars as they come out and argue about them here.
oh, and you want to talk about fancy cars. This lawyer buddy of mine bought a gray market '85 Mercedes with an 8 cylinder in it. They weren't importing 8 cylinders at the time. He paid $50 Gs to get it and get it here. He had M50s all the way around. You could take a 90* turn at 50 mph and the tires wouldn't even squeak. We're headed down Rt 2 doing 160 and he says, "You want to go faster? I said, "Uh,,, no thanks." LOL...
Post by: Silver Bullet on February 02, 2006, 04:26:32 AM
Quote
you had to dial it up to nine-tenths before its racy attributes really shined.
Oops; unintentional pun on my part. Quote
My determination is I think we should all go down and test drive one of these 425 HP camaros and decide for ourselves.
And the Challenger. I think I read those will have a hemi option 
, but I'm not sure.
Post by: mtnbkr on February 02, 2006, 05:38:20 AM
Quote
To back Daniel up, there is nothing of the 'ricer' about the S2000.
I personally never considered the S2000 a "ricer". I reserve that term for the Japanese econoboxes dressed up like race cars. I don't care how much crap you bolt onto your Civic, it's still a Civic.Chris
Post by: richyoung on February 02, 2006, 05:57:51 AM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
- No offense, but I started laughing when you spelled "Camaro" wrong and "Chimera" right.
No offense taken. I am a horrible speller, & I need new bifocals. Getting old is hell...Quote
2- Just because there isn't a name for this guy* I saw the other day, it doesn't mean he isn't an idiot either.
*A guy driving a late model Monte Carlo SS with NASCAR numbers on it, flat black rims, and Goodyears with the yellow lettering.
Probably a NASCAR fan. WOuld it suprise you to learn that a doctor studied a variety of athletes and found that the fittest ones were...NASCAR drivers? There's a lot more to it than you give it credit for. Let me further ask, did the "flat black rims" or "yellow letters' compromise handling and braking like the the ultra-wide low-profile rubber bolted onto a FWD that's been "lowered" by cutting the springs until the tires are visibly tilted?*A guy driving a late model Monte Carlo SS with NASCAR numbers on it, flat black rims, and Goodyears with the yellow lettering.
Quote
3- Sounds like you must have had a pretty good time in Germany. Was your 911 N/A or turbo?
Naturally aspirated - and the doors were falling off! I like my friend's mom's mid-seventies Corvette better....Quote
Which generation was it?
This was '78, and it was used, so it has to have been from the early or mid 70's.Quote
The only Porsches I've driven were the Boxster S and the 996 Turbo. Did you make it to any tracks while you were there?
Nice rides. Naw, when I was there, Jimmy Carter was prez, and the mark was like 1.19 to the dollar, so funds were TIGHT! The only "track" I got to was the Stuttgart to Franfurt autobahn....Quote
4- Damn, I have more cash/assets now than I ever have. I sold the M3 to get into motorcycling. The plans are to have a Civic coupe for A-B, a bike of some sort, and an S2K. I don't currently belong to SCCA or have any track experience so I'm going to use the Civic to start autox. Then after I get the MBA, I'll be moving to a bigger city and picking up the S2K.
OK -your rich - good. Just polin' a little fuun at you....Quote
5- Are you referring to the Camaro when you say "handles and brakes with world-class exotica"?
Skidpad numbers, slalom times, braking distances - you know, objective data...at the time it was introduced, (1993) the fourth gen f-body was very, very good. Not to mention running 13s with a slush box, getting 26+ mpg on the highway, and topping out at 156mph - all right off of the showroom floor, with no mods. Add headers, a cat-back, MDS system, power pulleys and a chip....Quote
If so, I've very, very confused.
The ONLY car that I've personally experienced that came close to my LT1 'bird was a rare BMW of some type (m5? I can't remember....) that a friend's rich brother had (before he lost his job). Handled almost as good, and braked even better. When he crammed on the binders, it actually hurt where the seatbelt was. Pretty peepy too, as I recall. Fast ride for a 4 door sedan. Just a little slower through a quarter-mile and top end - but I didn't pay near as much either.Quote
And I don't engage in magazine races since they're completely pointless.
Enjoy your autocross. Obviously, you know what you are doing, and aren't the type of "tooner" I'm refereing to
Post by: 280plus on February 02, 2006, 07:06:52 AM
Post by: CatsDieNow on February 02, 2006, 08:18:23 AM
All I am going to say is that I love my current Camaro (1996 Red Convertable RS) and I hope I can stretch it another 2-3 years so that I can buy a new one. It is a very well balanced car (which can carry 4 people in a pinch) that still has some zip. Will probably get a real Camaro intstead of a 6cyl atuomatic this time. Oh, and I want white racing stripes, too.
I like them mainly because I drive one. We all get attached to the things we are accustomed to.
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 02, 2006, 09:17:45 AM
Quote from: richyoung
No offense taken. I am a horrible speller, & I need new bifocals. Getting old is hell...
Probably a NASCAR fan. WOuld it suprise you to learn that a doctor studied a variety of athletes and found that the fittest ones were...NASCAR drivers? There's a lot more to it than you give it credit for. Let me further ask, did the "flat black rims" or "yellow letters' compromise handling and braking like the the ultra-wide low-profile rubber bolted onto a FWD that's been "lowered" by cutting the springs until the tires are visibly tilted?
Naturally aspirated - and the doors were falling off! I like my friend's mom's mid-seventies Corvette better....
This was '78, and it was used, so it has to have been from the early or mid 70's.
Nice rides. Naw, when I was there, Jimmy Carter was prez, and the mark was like 1.19 to the dollar, so funds were TIGHT! The only "track" I got to was the Stuttgart to Franfurt autobahn....
OK -your rich - good. Just polin' a little fuun at you....
Skidpad numbers, slalom times, braking distances - you know, objective data...at the time it was introduced, (1993) the fourth gen f-body was very, very good. Not to mention running 13s with a slush box, getting 26+ mpg on the highway, and topping out at 156mph - all right off of the showroom floor, with no mods. Add headers, a cat-back, MDS system, power pulleys and a chip....
The ONLY car that I've personally experienced that came close to my LT1 'bird was a rare BMW of some type (m5? I can't remember....) that a friend's rich brother had (before he lost his job). Handled almost as good, and braked even better. When he crammed on the binders, it actually hurt where the seatbelt was. Pretty peepy too, as I recall. Fast ride for a 4 door sedan. Just a little slower through a quarter-mile and top end - but I didn't pay near as much either.
Enjoy your autocross. Obviously, you know what you are doing, and aren't the type of "tooner" I'm refereing to
Rich- You seem like the kind of guy I could have a beer with and rib each other about cars all day long!Probably a NASCAR fan. WOuld it suprise you to learn that a doctor studied a variety of athletes and found that the fittest ones were...NASCAR drivers? There's a lot more to it than you give it credit for. Let me further ask, did the "flat black rims" or "yellow letters' compromise handling and braking like the the ultra-wide low-profile rubber bolted onto a FWD that's been "lowered" by cutting the springs until the tires are visibly tilted?
Naturally aspirated - and the doors were falling off! I like my friend's mom's mid-seventies Corvette better....
This was '78, and it was used, so it has to have been from the early or mid 70's.
Nice rides. Naw, when I was there, Jimmy Carter was prez, and the mark was like 1.19 to the dollar, so funds were TIGHT! The only "track" I got to was the Stuttgart to Franfurt autobahn....
OK -your rich - good. Just polin' a little fuun at you....
Skidpad numbers, slalom times, braking distances - you know, objective data...at the time it was introduced, (1993) the fourth gen f-body was very, very good. Not to mention running 13s with a slush box, getting 26+ mpg on the highway, and topping out at 156mph - all right off of the showroom floor, with no mods. Add headers, a cat-back, MDS system, power pulleys and a chip....
The ONLY car that I've personally experienced that came close to my LT1 'bird was a rare BMW of some type (m5? I can't remember....) that a friend's rich brother had (before he lost his job). Handled almost as good, and braked even better. When he crammed on the binders, it actually hurt where the seatbelt was. Pretty peepy too, as I recall. Fast ride for a 4 door sedan. Just a little slower through a quarter-mile and top end - but I didn't pay near as much either.
Enjoy your autocross. Obviously, you know what you are doing, and aren't the type of "tooner" I'm refereing to
I agree that NASCAR does take extreme amounts of physical skill. I just think there are so many better race series out there to follow such as WRC. And yeah, I love when people drop their cars and ask "Do I need a camber kit?" No you don't need a camber kit, the extreme tilt is "mad tyte yo!" Messed up camber will never ever add as much handling as a "8" sticker though.
I'm surprised your Porsche was in that kind of shape; I've always seen them get very high quality numbers. And I'm jealous of your autobahn experience, that must have been awesome!
Regarding the objective specs, I agree with those to some extent but I think the proof is in the pudding. That's why I like how the BBC's Top Gear tests cars. They have the same driver test them on the same track and have come up with some very interesting numbers, such as when they got the same time from an RX-8 as an M3. It is probably a fault of mine but when I think of import vs. domestic back in the day I think of the Berlinetta vs. the AE-86.
The BMW you're referring to was probably an M5. Unless it was a '97 or 98 M3 sedan (which I used to own).
The import scene is gradually improving. Of course you'll always have those "tooners" out there but for most people it is just auto-evolution. I look at my Civic as a good car to learn how to maintain and modify myself (brake pads, doing some mods like camber kits/springs, swapping to a K20A engine, etc.). When I had my M3 I didn't really know the car, I just drove it like hell. This time around, I want to be fully versed in technical proficiency before I consider myself worthy of a nicer car, such as an S2K.
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 02, 2006, 09:29:53 AM
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 02, 2006, 09:32:30 AM
Post by: Iain on February 02, 2006, 09:42:36 AM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Regarding the objective specs, I agree with those to some extent but I think the proof is in the pudding. That's why I like how the BBC's Top Gear tests cars. They have the same driver test them on the same track and have come up with some very interesting numbers, such as when they got the same time from an RX-8 as an M3.
The great Stig hasn't always been the same person. But yes, those tests are quite illuminating. Did you ever see the episode where the Williams team took their F1 car around that track? That was really quite scary. It was Top Gear's customer satisfaction survey that I referred to in my previous post.mtnbkr - A Civic may be a Civic, but a Civic Type R is a boy racers wet dream.
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 02, 2006, 09:47:10 AM
Quote from: Iain
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Regarding the objective specs, I agree with those to some extent but I think the proof is in the pudding. That's why I like how the BBC's Top Gear tests cars. They have the same driver test them on the same track and have come up with some very interesting numbers, such as when they got the same time from an RX-8 as an M3.
The great Stig hasn't always been the same person. But yes, those tests are quite illuminating. Did you ever see the episode where the Williams team took their F1 car around that track? That was really quite scary. It was Top Gear's customer satisfaction survey that I referred to in my previous post.mtnbkr - A Civic may be a Civic, but a Civic Type R is a boy racers wet dream.
Post by: mtnbkr on February 02, 2006, 09:49:37 AM
Quote from: Iain
mtnbkr - A Civic may be a Civic, but a Civic Type R is a boy racers wet dream.
True, but that's not what I'm talking about. A 20yo Civic with Type R stickers isn't a Civic Type R.But...each sticker adds .025 horsepower, dontcha know.
Chris
Post by: Iain on February 02, 2006, 09:57:19 AM
I think there have only been two so far. Heard suggestions that some very expensive cars are driven by their owners dressed as Stig, and when Williams took their car around it wasn't Stig either. There are rumours surrounding both Damon Hill and Colin McRae.
Have a look for that episode. The Williams car went round the track in under one minute.
Post by: crt360 on February 02, 2006, 11:07:59 AM
Yeah, I really have one - but I have not chopped the springs, glued a wing on it, painted half of it flat black or done anything else to make it cool. It is fun to drive and if I had spare money and time to make it fast, I might. Then I could paint it like a ramen noodle package and put some cool stickers on it.
As far as civics go, there are some cheesy "works in progress" out there, but I have encountered a few on the street that have amazing acceleration and handling.
Post by: Dannyboy on February 02, 2006, 11:19:50 AM
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 02, 2006, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: crt360
doodz, i need sum stikrs 4 my AE86.
If you ever get bored with it, let me know.
Post by: richyoung on February 03, 2006, 06:13:27 AM
Quote from: Daniel Flory
Rich- You seem like the kind of guy I could have a beer with and rib each other about cars all day long!
If you are ever around Lawton Oklahoma, give me a shout - I'm in the book....Quote
I agree that NASCAR does take extreme amounts of physical skill. I just think there are so many better race series out there to follow such as WRC.
I actually liked NASCAR better whne there was SOME connection between what Detroit built and what they had to run - it gave us wonderful things like the Hemi, the winged Superbird/Daytonas, the big-block Chevy, etc. Unfortunately, theascendency of FWD killed it all - the RWDS Monte Carlo SS was about its last hurrah. When they allowed Ford to run a "2 door Taurus" that DIDN'T EXIST, I lost all respect for the organization. At one time, every part ontte car had to have a factory part number, and have been installed on 500 cars before it was eligible for racing....Quote
And yeah, I love when people drop their cars and ask "Do I need a camber kit?" No you don't need a camber kit, the extreme tilt is "mad tyte yo!" Messed up camber will never ever add as much handling as a "8" sticker though.
Hey, I hear a "Type R" emblem ALONE is goood for 50 hp and another 30 mph top end...Quote
I'm surprised your Porsche was in that kind of shape; I've always seen them get very high quality numbers. And I'm jealous of your autobahn experience, that must have been awesome!
What can I say - it was Germany, and the car was trading material. Living there was a trip - you see Mercedes Benz taxi cabs all the time. I didn't have the 911 but about a week - if I remember, it was "importable", and Dad sold it to some sports car guy that was heading back to the Big PX. The most fun cars I had were a MB 280 fuel injection with a manual and a sun roof - that car could flat haul. But the real champ was the '64 coup. The hub caps were chrome. Not chrome plated tin - SOLID CHROME. They weighed a ton! Had a HUGE straight-6 twin overhead cam engine that looked like it belonged in a locomotive or hanging on the nose of an ME-109. Big long hood - the whole car was almost as big as an American Cadillac or Buick of the same period. Not much grunt from a dead stop, but you get it out on the 'bahn and get that cammer wound up, & the only thing I ever saw pass it was a whale-tail Porsche. I didn't even play the radio - I just listened to that engine moan as I floated throught the German country side at high speed - that was all the music I needed. It was cream white with a black leather interior - if I recall correctly, it still has the headlight dimmer swith on the floor. Big LONG hood, almost as long as a Monte Carlo - filled with engine. Big trunk. Big doors. (DOn't remember if it had AC?) Whish I could find a picture of it for you - it was much bigger than the "regular" Mercedese of the same year, & kind of rare....just a super car. Belonged to a German doctor who had died...Quote
Regarding the objective specs, I agree with those to some extent but I think the proof is in the pudding. That's why I like how the BBC's Top Gear tests cars. They have the same driver test them on the same track and have come up with some very interesting numbers, such as when they got the same time from an RX-8 as an M3. It is probably a fault of mine but when I think of import vs. domestic back in the day I think of the Berlinetta vs. the AE-86.
Snear at the domestics al you want - I had an '86 Trans Am back in the day that could hit 140 quicker than a cat could lick its...paw, and got good milage to boot out of a fuelie 305 - and it had over 100k on it when I got it.Quote
The BMW you're referring to was probably an M5. Unless it was a '97 or 98 M3 sedan (which I used to own).
I'm almost positive it was an M5 - beautiful car. The only 4-door to ever give me automotive envy.Quote
The import scene is gradually improving. Of course you'll always have those "tooners" out there but for most people it is just auto-evolution. I look at my Civic as a good car to learn how to maintain and modify myself (brake pads, doing some mods like camber kits/springs, swapping to a K20A engine, etc.). When I had my M3 I didn't really know the car, I just drove it like hell. This time around, I want to be fully versed in technical proficiency before I consider myself worthy of a nicer car, such as an S2K.
If I over-reacted - I apologize. As an old car guy, you have to try to imagine how aggrevating "Fast & Furious" was to watch - FWDs with wings, people calling nitrous oxide "nos" - (no real car guy EVER does that - its refered to as "on the bottle" or "on gas" or "on nitrous" - NOS is the initials of a company that sells nitrous gear.) the glue on "supercharger" on the Dodge. Then my son-in-law puts a fart can, PLASTIC "cold air" system, & Euro taillights on his Dodge......
Post by: ...has left the building. on February 03, 2006, 10:00:01 AM
Quote from: richyoung
If you are ever around Lawton Oklahoma, give me a shout - I'm in the book....
Yeah same for you Rich, if you ever are around Indianapolis or Lafayette, Indiana, drop me an e-mail. I'll buy you a good JAPANESE beer like Sapporo Quote
I actually liked NASCAR better whne there was SOME connection between what Detroit built and what they had to run - it gave us wonderful things like the Hemi, the winged Superbird/Daytonas, the big-block Chevy, etc. Unfortunately, theascendency of FWD killed it all - the RWDS Monte Carlo SS was about its last hurrah. When they allowed Ford to run a "2 door Taurus" that DIDN'T EXIST, I lost all respect for the organization. At one time, every part ontte car had to have a factory part number, and have been installed on 500 cars before it was eligible for racing....
I agree that it is a shame that they don't use anything that resembles factory. I'm sure you're like me and laugh when people call it "stock" car racing!Quote
Hey, I hear a "Type R" emblem ALONE is goood for 50 hp and another 30 mph top end...
Easily, and it will help you get chicks too. Quote
What can I say - it was Germany, and the car was trading material. Living there was a trip - you see Mercedes Benz taxi cabs all the time. I didn't have the 911 but about a week - if I remember, it was "importable", and Dad sold it to some sports car guy that was heading back to the Big PX. The most fun cars I had were a MB 280 fuel injection with a manual and a sun roof - that car could flat haul. But the real champ was the '64 coup. The hub caps were chrome. Not chrome plated tin - SOLID CHROME. They weighed a ton! Had a HUGE straight-6 twin overhead cam engine that looked like it belonged in a locomotive or hanging on the nose of an ME-109. Big long hood - the whole car was almost as big as an American Cadillac or Buick of the same period. Not much grunt from a dead stop, but you get it out on the 'bahn and get that cammer wound up, & the only thing I ever saw pass it was a whale-tail Porsche. I didn't even play the radio - I just listened to that engine moan as I floated throught the German country side at high speed - that was all the music I needed. It was cream white with a black leather interior - if I recall correctly, it still has the headlight dimmer swith on the floor. Big LONG hood, almost as long as a Monte Carlo - filled with engine. Big trunk. Big doors. (DOn't remember if it had AC?) Whish I could find a picture of it for you - it was much bigger than the "regular" Mercedese of the same year, & kind of rare....just a super car. Belonged to a German doctor who had died...
Those solid chrome rims were probably what helped it stay so stable at autobahn speeds. I used to drive the M-B taxi: the C280. I think Mercedes still has some soul (my wife owns one), but their quality is downright pathetic compared to the Mercedes you describe. You used to get a car that was built like a tank, was reliable, and could fly at all speeds. Now you get something that has status, has a ton of creature comforts, is ultra-safe, and can fly at all speeds. I'd much rather have the former. Quote
Snear at the domestics al you want - I had an '86 Trans Am back in the day that could hit 140 quicker than a cat could lick its...paw, and got good milage to boot out of a fuelie 305 - and it had over 100k on it when I got it.
I love domestics. I'm just not a big fan of the Camaro, SRT-4, and a few others that I love to hate on. Clarkson from Top Gear said it best one time when he said that Americans tend to think of their cars as point and shoot.Quote
I'm almost positive it was an M5 - beautiful car. The only 4-door to ever give me automotive envy.
M5s are indeed amazing!Quote
If I over-reacted - I apologize. As an old car guy, you have to try to imagine how aggrevating "Fast & Furious" was to watch - FWDs with wings, people calling nitrous oxide "nos" - (no real car guy EVER does that - its refered to as "on the bottle" or "on gas" or "on nitrous" - NOS is the initials of a company that sells nitrous gear.) the glue on "supercharger" on the Dodge. Then my son-in-law puts a fart can, PLASTIC "cold air" system, & Euro taillights on his Dodge......
No apology needed, I was taking it all lightly from the start. After all, they're cars, its not like you just slapped my wife. Anyway, I can see how you feel when people completely wreck a perfectly good car or with the annoying buzzwords people say. The tuner crowd definitely hates the "NOS" and the "altezza" taillights as much as you. I don't get too fired up about the dumb things people do to their car because I look at it this way: if you think about it, most people would not be considered to be good dressers. I don't walk through a public area and get bent out of shape because someone is wearing white socks with black shoes. I just keep walking.
Post by: grislyatoms on February 04, 2006, 04:40:03 PM
Dad of a friend of mine in High School was an engineer on a tugboat, always had to machine parts from stock while on the boat. Guy could make you any damned auto component ever created, if he had an example.
They put a Chevy 350 in a MG Midget...
In the words of Tim the tool man Taylor "Oh ah ah ah ah ah"
Post by: NineseveN on February 08, 2006, 06:19:04 AM