Taurus Judge - I'm surprised!

[seeker_two]

PTK: Thanks for the gelatin testing. That's something a lot of Judge-detractors haven't produced....


Just saw this article on a FB link....note the new SD round from Cross Outdoors....may solve some of the Taurus' accuracy problems in a particularly interesting way.....

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/9240/inside-the-judges-chamber

[MechAg94]

The Judge has never been a "bad" self defense gun since you can always use 45 Colt rounds in it which will get the job done.  I had just questioned how great 410 shot shells of any type are for self defense.  It sounds like there are some that are designed for pistols that can be adequate for self defense at least at short range though I have heard the spread at any sort of range makes significant hits less likely. 

[roo_ster]

I think part of it is the reaction to the advertising.  It does okay, but not necessarily better than other pistols that shoot pistol ammo only. 

Also, what is the shot spread at 10 yards or more?  How many pellets would hit? 

1. The judge is the most wildly inefficient handgun platform for the .45Colt that comes to mind.  Taurus has made .45Colt revolvers that are much more handy in the past.  I loved me those titanium .45 Colt snubbies.  ANd the .41mag version.

2. The .410 round is its reason for being and the .410 requirements why it is such a brick. 

3. If one is to use .410 for SD, it makes eminent sense to determine how much of the .410 payload can, under ideal circumstances, stay on target at reasonable SD ranges.  And how much penetration that fraction can manage, as buckshot shed velocity PDQ.

4. As a recreational gun, I am sure it is a hoot.  As a SD gun, it has serious flaws.

[Tallpine]

Would a .410 slug round be more or less powerful than a standard .45 Colt?

Will the Judge handle "Ruger Only" .45 Colt rounds?


I've never seen it as anything much more than a snake gun.  Out here we have snakes and a lot of things worse than snakes. 

[GigaBuist]

Would a .410 slug round be more or less powerful than a standard .45 Colt?

The slug is way less powerful what with it being only 90 grains or so.

[HankB]

. . . The Judge is a joke. Right. 18"+ penetration with 000 buck. Some joke.

I don't think anyone has said the .410 out of a handgun is harmless - it clearly can be lethal. I've stated before that I wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of one even if it were loaded with birdshot.

But some of us have reservations about its dependability in stopping a determined bad guy with any .410 shell, and believe there are better rounds in better packages for that task.

[seeker_two]

Will the Judge handle "Ruger Only" .45 Colt rounds?

Absolutely not....the general consensus is to treat the Judge like you would a Colt SAA and load accordingly...

[cordex]

But some of us have reservations about its dependability in stopping a determined bad guy with any .410 shell, and believe there are better rounds in better packages for that task.

But it's a shotgun!

[Balog]

I won't say it's useless. I will say I fail to see any advantage whatsoever over a standard revolver, and a number of ways it is inferior. I just don't get why, other than "just because" or "why not."

[PTK]

And you didn't answer my questions. 

Ten feet, bare gelatin, and to answer your next questions, 10% gel, 3.75" @ 588 fps.

[PTK]

But some of us have reservations about its dependability in stopping a determined bad guy with any .410 shell, and believe there are better rounds in better packages for that task.

I have similar reservations about FMJ in most calibers.

In all seriousness though, the general thought that because not all .410 will work for SD, the idea of a .410 SD gun is negative, is incorrect. If you followed that, I halfway didn't... Anyway, what I'm saying is use the right rounds, it's plenty powerful. Use the wrong rounds, and with basically any gun, it won't work as well. I know I sure as heck don't carry whatever FMJ ammo I can find for SD - I carry top-shelf SD HPs.

[PTK]

Would a .410 slug round be more or less powerful than a standard .45 Colt?

Will the Judge handle "Ruger Only" .45 Colt rounds?

Less powerful, and no.

Also, if you're ever in/around Bozeman/Belgrade/Manhattan, give me a PM. I've no problem with letting you try my Judge at the local range, if you'd like. :)

[AJ Dual]

Ten feet, bare gelatin, and to answer your next questions, 10% gel, 3.75" @ 588 fps.

Seven yards, with one layer of heavy Denim, and I will concede. Not otherwise.

[PTK]

Done and done. This time next week, I'll have done more gel tests. So, 21', one layer of duck (a bit heavier than denim, and I have some laying around - think tan/brown Carhartt clothes, that's duck), and of course 10% gel, calibrated, and videotaped. Sound good? :)

[Tallpine]

Less powerful, and no.

Also, if you're ever in/around Bozeman/Belgrade/Manhattan, give me a PM. I've no problem with letting you try my Judge at the local range, if you'd like. :)

Thanks.

Actually, if I want to try one then I could just ask the neighbor lady who carries one for snake protection.

[HankB]

One further thought . . . penetration alone is not an indicator of what kind of "stopper" the round is. 9mm FMJ and 110 grain .30 Carbine FMJ both have good penetration, but neither round is regarded as a "stopper."

[seeker_two]

Ten feet, bare gelatin, and to answer your next questions, 10% gel, 3.75" @ 588 fps.

Not enough detail.....you also need to tell us what you were wearing and if you were thinking of AJ at the time.....



 

[Matthew Carberry]

Ten feet, bare gelatin, and to answer your next questions, 10% gel, 3.75" @ 588 fps.

Temp?  Barometer?  Humidity?

C'mon, what are you trying to hide? 

[MillCreek]

Temp?  Barometer?  Humidity?

C'mon, what are you trying to hide? 

Not to mention that he is completely glossing over any gravimetric variations in his area.

[41magsnub]

But what about the phase of the moon and the relation of Saturn's orbit to that of Uranus???  Clearly homework and due diligence were not done here.

[Matthew Carberry]

It seems clear enough to me that he was bought off by Taurus and is now nothing more than a damn shill.

[MillCreek]

I bet he picks the NRA Gun of the Year, too.

[De Selby]

I've been underwhelmed with the few Taurus products I've come across - a company with its issues really needs something other than a bull for a mascot. 

Thing with the judge is, this is about the most glowing review I've seen, and the performance isn't that impressive.  Maybe Jim march can come along and make a semi auto version for us.

[j3rd]

You'll never be happy, will you?

Anyway, I'll be doing more testing as money allows. Gelatin isn't cheap.

Thanks for the test. I know the initial investment for gel is expensive and that it's time and refrigerator space consuming, but can't you melt it down and use it again?

[PTK]

Indeed I could, but then it wouldn't be a very good test... heating it over 115F or so makes it form a different structure than cold water as per normal routine. It's not really a good idea to reuse, but I do indeed melt it down and use it for other purposes. :)